Gyrocopters

jmp470

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John
Anyone here in to them? I've just started looking at them, so far I like what I see. I like the Cavalon, it's a bubble with two propellers :).

If anyone has more information about them or owns one, please let me know. I live near San Antonio Texas and would love to do some ultra-light / gyrocopter flying here.
 
I used to be about a thousand years ago. Anything specific you want to know?
 
Anyone here in to them? I've just started looking at them, so far I like what I see. I like the Cavalon, it's a bubble with two propellers :).

If anyone has more information about them or owns one, please let me know. I live near San Antonio Texas and would love to do some ultra-light / gyrocopter flying here.
Geez they hate on the RV freaks and you want a Gyroplane?:yes: Get a Bo, or at least a C-182, if you don't follow the herd the herd won't know how to rank your coolness. Is that gyropter pilot cooler then me in a Mooney? oh I'm getting the vapors just thinking about it.:lol:
 
They look neat,have seen them at the air shows. Hope to get a ride one of these days.
 
I owned a Cirrus, it was great. But, I have 5 in the family now and just want something for me. Before I buy another airplane, I want to either build at an airpark, or buy an existing home on 1. We are looking at our options now. I like the gyrocopter so I can trailer it to a field, or farm and fly from there. I would not be dependent on a hangar at the local airport.
 
Powered parachutes and weight shift stuff will do the same thing with less complexity, cheaper, and more of them out there.
 
My friend might get a powered chute, he just finished his IFR up. So now we just want to play with low and slow.
 
Low n slow is good, but I would rather have the speed of the Gyro. I've always wanted to fly one.
 
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My friend might get a powered chute, he just finished his IFR up. So now we just want to play with low and slow.
I got a ride in one once, it was a lot more fun then I expected. Poor mans helicopter.
 
I've thought they were interesting ever since the first time I saw the Road Warrior :D

Can you even get instruction in one without building or buying your own? If you can even find an instructor?
 
They look like fun. But I still can't wrap my head around how an unpowered main rotor develops lift via autorotation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroplane

As a helicopter pilot, I understand the concept of autorotation and controlling the main rotor speed and rate of descent...but to develop lift to the extent that it would provide a rate of climb like that...I just don't get it.
 
Been there, done that.

The Long Beach CA FBO where I worked in 1971 was the first dealer and school for the McCulloch J-2 Gyroplane. I'd had no prior rotor experience but the school trained me to instruct in them and I was among the first 25 or so to have soloed the beast. It was also the machine in which I have had my only aircraft accident. But more on that anon.

Gyroplanes of that era, and the McCulloch J-2 in particular, were marketed as offering the best qualities of fixed wing and helicopters. The reality, however, is not so rosy.

J-2_Brochure.jpg


First, compare the stats on a McCulloch J-2 with the 1966 Cessna 150F I used to own:

Engine: (J-2) Lyc. O-360, 180 hp; (C-150F) Cont. O-200, 100 hp
Useful Load: (J-2) 456 lb; (C-150F) 491 lb
Cruising Speed: (J-2) 95 mph TAS; (C-150F) 110 mph TAS
Vne: (J-2) 109 mph CAS; (C-150F) 162 mph CAS
Cargo area capacity: (J-2) 95 lb (under seat); (C-150F) 120 lb
Fuel capacity: (J-2) 20 gallons; (C-150F) 22.5 gallons
Range: (J-2) 150 statute miles; (C-150F) 300+ statute miles
Takeoff over 50' obstacle: (J-2) 1,200 ft; (C-150F) 1,385 ft
Approved operations: (J-2) Day VFR only; (C-150F) day & night, VFR & IFR.
Max approved pressure altitude for takeoff: (J-2) 4,000'; (C-150F) no limit
Max approved pressure altitude for flight: (J-2) 8,000'; (C-150F) no limit

A Super Cub would beat the J-2 just about all around. Even a 100-hp Sport Cub LSA would beat the J-2 in every category except landing distance.

Yes, a J-2 touches down very slowly. In a moderate breeze I have touched down at zero ground speed. But though the manual doesn't prohibit it, crosswind landings and landings on other than paved surfaces were strongly discouraged. Witness the photo below, May 5, 1971, Compton, California. I was getting post-solo dual instruction in a 7-knot crosswind and the laws of physics with close-coupled landing gear and a high CG took over (yours truly on the left):

19710505-03.jpg


That was the third such accident among the six J-2's that had been built up to that time. The first involved another CFI at my FBO, an experienced police helicopter pilot, who was also being trained in the J-2; the second was when a McCulloch factory pilot, a friend of mine, "duplicated the malfunction" four days later. The NTSB's probable cause for that one was "poor/inadequate design ... design deficiency in nosewheel self-centering device." The FAA grounded the fleet after my accident until the factory modified the nosegear (essentially adding an off-the-shelf Cessna shimmy dampener). A few months later I went out to the factory at Lake Havasu to fly a modified J-2, but I couldn't tell much difference.

A J-2 can't hover, but you can reduce it to zero airspeed in flight, in which instance the aircraft goes straight down in autorotation. It does not stall. But, if you are low and slow and the engine quits you will not have enough energy to autorotate and flare to a safe landing. Just like a helicopter, the J-2's manual has a height-velocity curve showing altitude/airspeed combinations that must be avoided. For instance, it's a no-no to fly at 50 mph or less at 150' AGL -- where a Sport Cub with its 32-mph Vs0 might be perfectly happy.

I was amused by some of the factory promotional materials. For example, this photo raises a few questions:

mcculloch_j-2_skier.jpg
1. Who gets left behind when the two-seat J-2 takes off?
2. Which hard-surface runway will it use when it takes off?
3. Is the pressure altitude on that mountaintop over 4,000'? If so, the J-2 can't take off at all.
Then there's noise. The J-2 sounds like a DC-6 outside and a jackhammer inside. Back in 1971 headsets were rare, but we sure used 'em in the J-2. And then there's maintenance. Ugh.

We were based at Long Beach, then the fourth busiest airport in the country. ATC hated us. When you take off in a J-2 you have to stop in position on the runway, engage the rotor clutch, then push the spring-loaded collective down slowly, which spins up the rotor. At about 450 rotor rpm you're good to go, but the process takes about 45 seconds -- tying up an active runway. Rotate at 47 mph and accelerate in ground effect to 65 mph, then climb (that's why a C-150 just about equals the J-2's takeoff performance). ATC eventually agreed to let us use a parallel taxiway for takeoffs in the J-2.

For more background on the J-2 and gyroplanes in general, Download the complete J-2 Flight Manual and the McCulloch Flight Training Manual and syllabus.
 
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Jeff,
Interesting reading. But, how does the J-2 compare to modern gyrocopters? From what I've read, you can go to zero G, but don't go negative G's as it unloads the blades and this is what gets most gyrocopter pilots killed.

My goal is to fly from Ground level up to about 1000 ft.
 
...I like the gyrocopter so I can trailer it to a field, or farm and fly from there. I would not be dependent on a hangar at the local airport.

John, you'll want to network with some existing owners and find out if the Cavalon will check all your boxes. It might not be a good choice for rough field operation, and trailering requires removing the rotorblades. The extruded aluminum rotorblades have limited life and limits on bank angles, and rotor/tail clearance is negative until the rotor is spun up, requiring attention to ground handling.

The German machines are light, responsive, very quiet, beautifully finished and a ball to fly, but use more runway than many airplanes. Trailering to farm fields might be better saved for a really light single-place gyro.

There are about a dozen active gyro instructors nationwide. I believe you'll need to plan a trip to Maryland or Utah to get training in a Cavalon this year (unless you bring your own.) Craig McPherson in Blum, TX is probably the nearest active instructor to you, and I believe he's an Autogyro dealer as well, so he can answer your questions. Check the "Training" link at www.pra.org for a full list of instructors with contact info. (Some are part-time or not currently active.)
 
In my experience with the Bensen B8-M(granddaddy of Amer gyros) it was fun - for about 3 hours in various flights. After that, it wasn't much fun anymore. Way too easy for a fixed wing pilot to get into a flight regime where options are few, and time is critical. Modern gyros have solved some of the various niggling issues, but the big one of power pushover has remained. This is not true of the one tractor model that was discussed a few months back. It looked more promising but they are still a bit of a handful until you are fully conversant with the flight modes.
 
Jeff,
Interesting reading. But, how does the J-2 compare to modern gyrocopters?

Like a minivan to a Miata.

From what I've read, you can go to zero G, but don't go negative G's as it unloads the blades and this is what gets most gyrocopter pilots killed.

In autorotation, rotor RPM (on fixed-pitch gyroplane rotors, at least) is proportional to G loading throughout the operating range, not something which stops suddenly at a particular point. You'll see RPM decrease with reduced weight and thin air, and increase in in banked turns, etc. Low-G events caused by thermals will not reduce Gs long enough to be an issue in modern gyros.

Many gyro accidents in past times appear to have their roots in poor pitch stability and damping, which has been solved in newer machines. These days, the biggest issue is impatience on the part of students, often because they have poor access to training and resulting long waits between trips to their CFIs.

Ground-handling mishaps (also typical of students rushing it) are a bigger deal in gyros than in most airplanes. You'd be surprised how much energy is stored in a 28-foot, 100-pound rotor spinning at 350 RPM. Let one blade tip hit the ground and you're going for a wild ride.
 
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...but the big one of power pushover has remained. This is not true of the one tractor model that was discussed a few months back. It looked more promising but they are still a bit of a handful until you are fully conversant with the flight modes...

Power pushover is an issue only when the thrustline is above the aircraft center of mass, and not compensated by an adequate horizontal stabilizer. It is not an issue on modern pushers. The only gyro kit still being sold in any numbers worldwide with a severe thrustline offset and inadequate stabilizer is the RAF 2000, now produced in South Africa (with no horizontal stabilizer at all).

Tractors do have one inherent stability advantage in that the mass of the pilot and engine are not as close to CG, and the tail is on a longer arm. This tends to limit their rates and increase damping in pitch and yaw.
 
Paul,
Great information, thank you. I might travel to Houston area to go fly one. Still in the research phase right now, especially since the weather is cold.
 
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