GTN 650/750 and iPad connectivity

[Matthew]

I’m still learning the 650 in my rental and am looking into moving from my old Android to an iPad.

Will pairing an iPad (wifi only) to the 650 or 750 allow the iPad to use it as a source for traffic and GPS?

Currently using Avare on the Android but would probably move to FltPlanGo on the iPad.

 

[Steamflyer]

Believe you need a Fligthstream to have a GTN talk to an iPad. In a rental, a Sentry and an iPad make a nice stand-alone portable solution that provides traffic and GPS to the tablet.

 

[Hang 4]

@Steamflyer is correct. There is no native BT connectivity in a GTN. There are several things that might be in the plane that allow a BT connection though. Flightstream 510 or 210. Go to the System, Connext Setup menu in the GTN. That will show if there is anything to pair with. There might also be the capability to connect via a transponder.

 

[Matthew]

Believe you need a Fligthstream to have a GTN talk to an iPad. In a rental, a Sentry and an iPad make a nice stand-alone portable solution that provides traffic and GPS to the tablet.

I’ll check on the Flightstream. All the CFIs seem to use iPads and Foreflight, and they somehow get paired with the GTN. Maybe it already has a Flightstream?

I also have a Stratux for external GPS, traffic, and weather, but I’m looking for something a little more robust. I was hoping the GTN would work but I have very little experience or knowledge of that level of operation.

 

[midlifeflyer]

FlightStream allows transfer of such things as flight plans between compatible app and avionics, but a compatible ADS-B transponder is all that is needed for GPS and ADS-B. So, for example, if the rental is equipped with a GTN and a Garmin 345 transponder, you can connect the 345's GPS and ADS-B feed via Bluetooth to an iPad. In a rental, I'd expect the transponder connection more than I'd expect FlightStream, just because the capability is incorporated into the transponder. FlightStream is an extra install.

If you have a 345 transponder, be aware there are two different ways to access their Bluetooth connection. One is buttonology on the transponder; the other is via the GTN. Installers usually select one or the other and I've seen both types.

 

[Matthew]

FlightStream allows transfer of such things as flight plans between compatible app and avionics, but a compatible ADS-B transponder is all that is needed for GPS and ADS-B. So, for example, if the rental is equipped with a GTN and a Garmin 345 transponder, you can connect the 345's GPS and ADS-B feed via Bluetooth to an iPad. In a rental, I'd expect the transponder connection more than I'd expect FlightStream, just because the capability is incorporated into the transponder. FlightStream is an extra install.

If you have a 345 transponder, be aware there are two different ways to access their Bluetooth connection. One is buttonology on the transponder; the other is via the GTN. Installers usually select one or the other and I've seen both types.

Thanks. I think I have enough info that I can start looking at what’s actually in the plane. I have found a connection menu on the GTN and it has a long list of phones and tablets as being paired. I just assumed the GTN was doing all the work.

 

[Matthew]

The plane has a GTX-345 xponder and the GTN-650.

I haven’t found out about the Flightstream.

I will be back at the airport tomorrow for something besides flying. If the plane is available I will see what I can find on the GTN menu pages.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Thanks. I think I have enough info that I can start looking at what’s actually in the plane. I have found a connection menu on the GTN and it has a long list of phones and tablets as being paired. I just assumed the GTN was doing all the work.

Then you definitely have something. And yes, the GTN is acting as a conduit. Showing it and how to connect to it (and whether there is a limit to the number of permissible connections) should be part of the checkout in the airplane. If it's just a like model to another you are already checked out in, so no separate checkout required, have one the CFIs show you.

 

[TCABM]

I’ll check on the Flightstream. All the CFIs seem to use iPads and Foreflight, and they somehow get paired with the GTN...

What transponder? Our 650 gets it’s connectivity thru the GTX345. The 345 is also the source for ADSB data on EFB. IIRC, there’s a ten device limit on the GTN so people are always having to kick an old device off and pair a new one…since that config doesn’t allow an EFB to push flight plan changes to the GTN, it’s more hassle than it’s worth so we all still use our stratux, etc.

If you decide to go that route, GP is a better experience than FF.

 

[midlifeflyer]

The plane has a GTX-345 xponder and the GTN-650.

Yep. It's Bluetooth from the 345 and from your description, the connection is though the page you saw in the GTN

 

[midlifeflyer]

If you decide to go that route, GP is a better experience than FF.

In what way? I've used both and don't see any significant difference.

 

[Matthew]

What transponder? Our 650 gets it’s connectivity thru the GTX345. The 345 is also the source for ADSB data on EFB. IIRC, there’s a ten device limit on the GTN so people are always having to kick an old device off and pair a new one…since that config doesn’t allow an EFB to push flight plan changes to the GTN, it’s more hassle than it’s worth so we all still use our stratux, etc.

If you decide to go that route, GP is a better experience than FF.

Looks like we posted at the same time: transponder is GTX-345.

 

[TCABM]

In what way? I've used both and don't see any significant difference.

GP is available in android, even if it isn’t as feature rich as the ipad version. Amongst our partners they agree initial pairing seems to be smoother on GP vs FF.

 

[Matthew]

I’m currently working on my IR. My Android has internal GPS and Avare and works fine for what I use it. Until now it was for moving map sectionals, and now I can georeference approach plates.

But that old Nexus 7 has just about worn itself out. Rather than get another Android, I’m looking at the iPad now. Avare won’t run on an iPad, but FltPlanGo will. I use FPG quite a bit on my iPhone so I’m pretty familiar with it. But getting internal GPS means getting the cellular version vs the wifi. I’m hoping the GTN/GTX will have the ability to work around the lack of internal iPad GPS.

Something I haven’t done yet is attempt to connect the Android Avare combo to the GTN/GTX. Traffic and wx is a bonus.

Many years ago I used GP on that Nexus but eventually I dropped the subscription. I wasn’t flying much and Avare is free. Realistically, even after I finish the instrument training I don’t expect to do much more than enough local and short xc flights to stay current and reasonably proficient. To get georeferenced plates in either GP or FF requires a higher priced subscription, but FPG and Avare don’t.

 

[TCABM]

… I’m hoping the GTN/GTX will have the ability to work around the lack of internal iPad GPS…

It does.

Something I haven’t done yet is attempt to connect the Android Avare combo to the GTN/GTX. Traffic and wx is a bonus.

It’s been a while since I’ve used Avare and can’t remember if G’s ADSB traffic/wx output is readable by Avare; @midlifeflyer might know. I seem to recall GP and FF are the two EFBs the GTN/X play well together with.

…Many years ago I used GP on that Nexus but eventually I dropped the subscription. I wasn’t flying much and Avare is free. Realistically, even after I finish the instrument training I don’t expect to do much more than enough local and short xc flights to stay current and reasonably proficient. To get georeferenced plates in either GP or FF requires a higher priced subscription, but FPG and Avare don’t.

Personally, I would not try to learn a new EFB, learn new avionics, and learn IRA all at one time. If I were in your shoes, I’d stick with what I know I’m most likely to use over the long run. Avare is a good product and is my backup to iFly EFB on my iOS phone and droid tablet.

If I ever move our from our partnership or move into flying professionally, I’ll make the FF/GP decisions then.

 

[Matthew]

It does.

It’s been a while since I’ve used Avare and can’t remember if G’s ADSB traffic/wx output is readable by Avare; @midlifeflyer might know. I seem to recall GP and FF are the two EFBs the GTN/X play well together with.

Personally, I would not try to learn a new EFB, learn new avionics, and learn IRA all at one time. If I were in your shoes, I’d stick with what I know I’m most likely to use over the long run. Avare is a good product and is my backup to iFly EFB on my iOS phone and droid tablet.

If I ever move our from our partnership or move into flying professionally, I’ll make the FF/GP decisions then.

My tablet will get me through the IR.
I’m doing the xc next week so I’m on the back side of my training. After that, I’ll look into using the (possibly) iPad in flight. I use FPG on my phone for flight planning and reviewing plates and charts so that isn’t going to be a big learning curve.

The other reason for looking at iPad vs Android is that I’d be using it for non-aviation work the 99% of the time I’m not flying. It integrates better for our home use than Android.

edit: the old Nexus still has the ability to be used for flight-only until it completely dies. What’s killing it now is that it won’t charge through the cable connection anymore so I have to rig an induction charger to fit in the Ram mount. The Nexus does have enough charge for at least 2 hrs of flight and still have 50% left, but anything longer runs the risk of draining the battery in-flight.

 

[midlifeflyer]

GP is available in android, even if it isn’t as feature rich as the ipad version. Amongst our partners they agree initial pairing seems to be smoother on GP vs FF.

That's true. I had no idea you were "a better experience" to mean "there's no Android Foreflight."

 

[midlifeflyer]

t’s been a while since I’ve used Avare and can’t remember if G’s ADSB traffic/wx output is readable by Avare; @midlifeflyer might know. I seem to recall GP and FF are the two EFBs the GTN/X play well together with.

Garmin works with Garmin EFBs - Pilot and FltPlan Go!. It works with Foreflight because Garmin is not stupid enough to exclude the EFB with the biggest market share. But that's about it unless someone is clever enough to hack the stream. I actually gave up my preferred backup EFB because of it.

 

[TCABM]

That's true. I had no idea you were "a better experience" to mean "there's no Android Foreflight."

Generally I’m not. When it comes to GPvsFF AND android is about the only time when I am, even considering GP android does not have feature parity with GP iOS.

Garmin works with Garmin EFBs - Pilot and FltPlan Go!. It works with Foreflight because Garmin is not stupid enough to exclude the EFB with the biggest market share. But that's about it unless someone is clever enough to hack the stream. I actually gave up my preferred backup EFB because of it.

I always forget FPG is a Garmin product, so that makes sense. With Boeing owning FF and FF owning CloudAhoy, I can see that as a very powerful combination for the CFI/CFI-I. Of note, I just learned CloudAhoy integrates w/X-Plane…I’ll have to try that out tonight.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Of note, I just learned CloudAhoy integrates w/X-Plane…I’ll have to try that out tonight.

Let us know. I haven't tried that.

 

[TCABM]

Let us know. I haven't tried that.

Easy peasy. If XP is set up to send data to an EFB, it’ll send to CloudAhoy.

Fire up the XP, once loaded and ready to fly, open CloudAhoy and it will detect simulator

Pay attention to the note about CA being in the foreground. Kind of limiting, but easy to work around.

 

[John Collins]

GP is available in android, even if it isn’t as feature rich as the ipad version. Amongst our partners they agree initial pairing seems to be smoother on GP vs FF.

Pairing does not involve the app. Pairing is through iOS BT panel.

 

[StevO]

If the aircraft I fly has a GTN650 and GTX345 which is better to connect to? I have an active data plan on my iPad if that matters. Is one better than the other to connect to or preferred?

 

[John Collins]

If the aircraft I fly has a GTN650 and GTX345 which is better to connect to? I have an active data plan on my iPad if that matters. Is one better than the other to connect to or preferred?

If you have a FS510 and the GTX 345 is connected to your GTN650, then the best connection is to the FS510 because in addition to weather and traffic, you can exchange flight plans to/from your iPad/iPhone. If you only connect to the GTX 345, you can't exchange flight plans from the panel/idevice.

 

[pnancoz]

If the aircraft I fly has a GTN650 and GTX345 which is better to connect to? I have an active data plan on my iPad if that matters. Is one better than the other to connect to or preferred?

Likely if your GTN650 has a FS510 or is connected to a FS210, the bluetooth connectivity in GTX345 is disabled.

 

[robin ardoin]

Likely if your GTN650 has a FS510 or is connected to a FS210, the bluetooth connectivity in GTX345 is disabled.

Possibly...but in my A/C, the FS510 and the GTX345 are both enabled.

If the aircraft I fly has a GTN650 and GTX345 which is better to connect to? I have an active data plan on my iPad if that matters. Is one better than the other to connect to or preferred?

A GTN650 alone, if I am correct, has no BT connectivity. A FlightStream 210/510 would be needed. However, the GTX345 would fill that bill. My A/C has a GTN650/FS510/GTX345. I connected via the GTX345 prior to adding the FS510 and it was flawless. I now connect via the FS510 so I can push flight plans to/from the ipad/GTN650. However, the BT will occasionally disconnect/reconnect in flight. I think I recall having the BT disabled on the GTX since install of the FS but will have to check that since it may be causing the issue.

 

[StevO]

Possibly...but in my A/C, the FS510 and the GTX345 are both enabled.

A GTN650 alone, if I am correct, has no BT connectivity. A FlightStream 210/510 would be needed. However, the GTX345 would fill that bill. My A/C has a GTN650/FS510/GTX345. I connected via the GTX345 prior to adding the FS510 and it was flawless. I now connect via the FS510 so I can push flight plans to/from the ipad/GTN650. However, the BT will occasionally disconnect/reconnect in flight. I think I recall having the BT disabled on the GTX since install of the FS but will have to check that since it may be causing the issue.

Awesome and thanks for the response from all three members. I have been connected to the GTN650 which has the FlightStream however I am not sure which version it is. It has been working great thus far

 

[Randomskylane]

Likely if your GTN650 has a FS510 or is connected to a FS210, the bluetooth connectivity in GTX345 is disabled.

Is there a way to turn it back on without going to the Garmin dealer?

 

[GaryR]

@Steamflyer is correct. There is no native BT connectivity in a GTN. There are several things that might be in the plane that allow a BT connection though. Flightstream 510 or 210. Go to the System, Connext Setup menu in the GTN. That will show if there is anything to pair with. There might also be the capability to connect via a transponder.

Yes. When I upgraded to the 750XI I had to get the FS510 to use the connectivity even though I already had a FS 210.

 

[Hang 4]

Yes. When I upgraded to the 750XI I had to get the FS510 to use the connectivity even though I already had a FS 210.

You shouldn't have needed to do that. I did the same upgrade (though 650 to 650xi) and still use my FS210 with no problems. What you can't do is database updates through the FS210. That's the same for both xi and non-xi

 

[GaryR]

You shouldn't have needed to do that. I did the same upgrade (though 650 to 650xi) and still use my FS210 with no problems. What you can't do is database updates through the FS210. That's the same for both xi and non-xi

Correct - I should have been clearer - I wanted to be able to do the wireless database updates.