Grumman for flight training

[mondtster]

Grummans are well built. The company built warbirds, and these are built about the same way - sturdy.

Just because a company with the same name built warbirds doesn’t make the AA1 or AA5 sturdy or good.

They’re very simple in construction, which lent itself to the original intent of its designer well. I personally feel that simplicity also gave them a cheaply constructed feel.

Regardless of construction techniques, I see no reason why one couldn’t be used for primary training. The biggest hassle will probably be finding an instructor that has enough Grumman time to meet insurance requirements.

 

[bkspero]

The biggest hassle will probably be finding an instructor that has enough Grumman time to meet insurance requirements.

Good point. If you have difficulty finding an instructor with enough Grumman time, you can join the American Yankee Assn (AYA) and access their list of instructors. IIRC, there is a free trial membership to the AYA so you don't need to spend anything to get access.

 

[1RTK1]

I believe my insurance requires something like 10 hours give or take.

 

[N1120A]

I didn't train in a Tiger, but kind of wish I had. The Archer I did most of my work in, combined with some Diamond time, reasonably approximated the experience though. 172s are terrible and should probably result in an initial limitation on your PPL, sort of like center line thrust .

Once I started flying a Tiger, I liked it so much that I bought it. I have done a decent chunk of my IFR training in it, but have chosen to use my friend's Arrow for most of the training and the checkride. The Tiger is a stable IFR plane, but the control responsiveness is kind of your enemy when you are nervously working under the hood, plus I don't have G5s yet, like the Arrow does. I do have a very well set up STEC30, with GPSS and ALT hold, however, so real world hard IFR flying is a lot more fun in the Tiger than hand flying or using the ancient Piper AP in the Arrow.

As for training, Tigers and Cheetahs have been used for plenty of training, with even some schools being built around them. The main concerns are the famously high, but manageable by a good pilot, CHTs and the expensive wheel pants that are susceptible to abuse by students.

 

[mkosmo]

Good point. If you have difficulty finding an instructor with enough Grumman time, you can join the American Yankee Assn (AYA) and access their list of instructors. IIRC, there is a free trial membership to the AYA so you don't need to spend anything to get access.

A buddy's policy (AA5) didn't require anything from instructors. They're docile airplanes to fly, and I'm sure the actuarial tables will reflect that.

 

[Bill Gatlin]

I did my PP in a Cheetah AA5A back in 2006. Flew an AA5 Traveler for about 10 years, and recently we upgraded to a Tiger AA5B a couple of years ago that we've since upgraded the panel. I completed my IFR in that last year. I'm 6'4" and on the hefty side and we fit just fine. As our plane now qualifies as a TAA aircraft with the panel upgrade I'm planning to complete my commercial in it this year and then start working on my CFI.

You'll love flying the Grummans. Great planes, and great people that fly them for the most part I think the AA5 series are one of the best kept secrets around for affordable planes.

Working on the TAA pkg I’ll use. What did you put in yours?

 

[danhagan]

I can see the headlines now if a flight school used an AA 1 today. “Family sues flight school for operating an airplane with a dangerous history after spinning it into the ground”

I was being a smart a. The Grumman has no bad habits, just a bunch of exaggerated stories that have grown in magnitude over the years by people who have never flown one.

Tigers fly great. CFIs (even the really aggressive ones) weren't real keen on max RPM power on stalls. Owned mine 10 years and would still have it, except that I'm usually solo and the RV made more sense.

Just because a company with the same name built warbirds doesn’t make the AA1 or AA5 sturdy or good.

They’re very simple in construction, which lent itself to the original intent of its designer well. I personally feel that simplicity also gave them a cheaply constructed feel.

Have you owned or flown one more than once? The AA5 has the sturdiest cockpit "cage" of most GA aircraft. If you look up NTSB accident reports, about 95% of the accidents are new owners landing too fast. Do you know anything about them? The relationship with LoPresi?

 

[texashikergal02]

Working on the TAA pkg I’ll use. What did you put in yours?

Answering for Mitch because we fly the same airplane. The Tiger has the dual G5's, a 430W, and the Garmin GFC500 autopilot that together qualify it for a TAA.
They are responsive and a load of fun to fly, but it's best to find an instructor who knows them well enough to really teach the subtleties of the breed. The AYA and the GPA are both good organizations for finding those folks.

 

[mondtster]

Have you owned or flown one more than once? The AA5 has the sturdiest cockpit "cage" of most GA aircraft. If you look up NTSB accident reports, about 95% of the accidents are new owners landing too fast. Do you know anything about them? The relationship with LoPresi?

I’ve never owned but am plenty familiar. I’ve maintained them and don’t care for the construction techniques, although the techbiques used drive home the original intent behind the design of the airplane.

My main complaint with the post I quoted was the implication that the airplanes are sturdy because they share the same manufacture name with warbirds. The similarities stop at the name as far as I’m concerned, as it is a Bede design that was intended to be a kit built plane. Sturdy or not is not in question.

 

[Mitch817]

Answering for Mitch because we fly the same airplane. The Tiger has the dual G5's, a 430W, and the Garmin GFC500 autopilot that together qualify it for a TAA.
They are responsive and a load of fun to fly, but it's best to find an instructor who knows them well enough to really teach the subtleties of the breed. The AYA and the GPA are both good organizations for finding those folks.

Bill, don't forget to get the magnetometer with the g5 installs. That's needed in order to finish things out for the TAA from what I understand. You can't just use GPS for your heading indicator.

 

[Bill Gatlin]

Bill, don't forget to get the magnetometer with the g5 installs. That's needed in order to finish things out for the TAA from what I understand. You can't just use GPS for your heading indicator.

Yep absolutly. I certainly appreciate the feedback.

 

[N1120A]

There's nothing cheap feeling about a Tiger. In fact, I'd say the opposite.

A buddy's policy (AA5) didn't require anything from instructors. They're docile airplanes to fly, and I'm sure the actuarial tables will reflect that.

I've never heard of a dual requirement for Tigers or Cheetahs. As fast as they are, relative to their competition, they've always been considered "entry level" trainer types, even though they really do for you what an Arrow or 182 will (except for weight).