Ground Instruction Question

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JM93

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John M
Hello!! The school I'm looking at going has their "estimated costs" for the private. They list 30 hours of Ground Instruction valued at $1,860 and also Cessna Online Ground School valued at $359..
My question is, do they consider the ground instruction pre-flight and post-flight or am I assuming something wrong?
 
Can't answer that without seeing the material or the course/syllabus. Just ask the school what does the moola apply to.
 
Often "ground school" is prep for the written test. Some people like to take the test before they start flying. Personally, I found reading the book, flying and the pre- / post-flight discussions was enough to pass the written test.
 
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Ryanb said:
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Perhaps a better way to word my original question would be if it's normal to pay for the 30 hours of ground instruction sorry that wasn't very clear/obvious.

I'm planning on asking the school about everything as any normal person should, but it doesn't hurt to hear from people who have gone through training before.

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JM93 said:
Perhaps a better way to word my original question would be if it's normal to pay for the 30 hours of ground instruction sorry that wasn't very clear/obvious.

I'm planning on asking the school about everything as any normal person should, but it doesn't hurt to hear from people who have gone through training before.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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Well typically a flight lesson consists of a ground lesson and an air lesson. You pay the CFI for both. So yes, paying for ground instruction is a normal thing, they’re just giving you an estimate of what the ground instruction charges will cost you.
 
The only thing I wouldn't recommend is any prepay for anything. Many stories of people getting screwed over if something happens to the school. Knew a few that happened to going to flight schools in FL. I think @Half Fast must've been involved! ;)
 
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I'm going to solo later this morning!

There are probably 12 other students in the program right now at my flight school. I think everyone did ground school online at home. I chose the Gleim program but others have done well with Sportys and others. I'm going to sit for the knowledge exam on Thursday. For me, it has been helpful to see the ground school content put into real world practice. Beginning the ground program early saved a LOT of time with my CFI who did not have to explain basic concepts. Most ground school kits are around $100 and are very well done. Good luck!

Garland

P.S. GET YOUR MEDICAL IN HAND BEFORE YOU BEGIN ANYTHING! I started that process too late and it has delayed today's solo for over a month!

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One of the part 61 Flight schools here locally offers Private ground school for a fixed cost of $199. It is 13 weeks and meets for 2 hours every Monday and Thursday. Once paid for, a person can attend as many times as they like. Some students find it advantageous. The goal is not to teach to the test, although all of the materials are covered. The goal is to have the students develop an understanding of the subjects. It seems to have the effect of reducing the stress on taking the oral part of the practical. Some students learn better in this type of setting. YMMV.


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I've never heard of anyone specifically splitting out ground training for a separate charge. The CFI is going to talk on the ground, then you pay him for it, but it isn't training. It's brief/debrief time and the clock is running. I would just roll that in with the flight training, it isn't like you're going to write a separate check for the CFI's ground time vs air time.

My read on this is that they are trying to get you to pay some extra for the CFI. Especially later in your training the clock won't start running until you walk out to the airplane because there won't be much in the way of briefing.

If they're asking you to pay up front for this, I would pick another school.
 
bflynn said:
I've never heard of anyone specifically splitting out ground training for a separate charge. The CFI is going to talk on the ground, then you pay him for it, but it isn't training. It's brief/debrief time and the clock is running. I would just roll that in with the flight training, it isn't like you're going to write a separate check for the CFI's ground time vs air time.

My read on this is that they are trying to get you to pay some extra for the CFI. Especially later in your training the clock won't start running until you walk out to the airplane because there won't be much in the way of briefing.

If they're asking you to pay up front for this, I would pick another school.
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You seem to be way off base. Read the post, it is s cost estimate not a price list.
 
Pay for your flight instruction by the hour, not by the rating or block rate whatever. Have a policy in life, never prepay anything if you have a choice. Possesion is 9/10ths of the law. And if its under 50k, its pretty much 99% of the law.
 
mscard88 said:
The only thing I wouldn't recommend is any prepay for anything. Many stories of people getting screwed over if something happens to the school. Knew a few that happened to going to flight schools in FL. I think @Half Fast must've been involved! ;)
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Indeed, pay a you go and thay way, if they suck, they're not stealing your money.
 
Sounds like a reasonable estimate for the time spent with your CFI outside of flight time. For example, you might find yourself paying for 2.0hrs of CFI time for a lesson but only .9hrs flight time. Because there is ground instruction taking place before the flight, and a debrief after the flight. Or the weather is bad so you decide to spend 1.5 hrs going over FAR's and charts instead of flying...

For most people, taking a group ground school class (or online) for $350 or so that will more than likely cut way down on the amount of one-on-one ground school time you have with your instructor, and save you money in the long run.
 
Get your medical,then do some heavy home study,for PPL test. That way your not wasting time having the instructor teaching you all the basic information. Good Luck.
 
I'd have to see the whole layout of the program, but off the cuff that's a good chunk of money for PPL ground school for a mentally competent responsible adult. Many places will have students do a good bit of it self study with the king videos or such, maybe a little sit down for initial weight and balance, initial cross country logs and planning, and check ride prep, add a little debrief, meh, yeah that still seems like they are a little heavy on the ground training.


Maybe ask of you can self study and just pay for the ground you actually need/use?
 
As a note of interest, Sporty's ground course is around $400 and they will sign you off for the written after you pass their online test.
 
JM93 said:
Perhaps a better way to word my original question would be if it's normal to pay for the 30 hours of ground instruction sorry that wasn't very clear/obvious.

I'm planning on asking the school about everything as any normal person should, but it doesn't hurt to hear from people who have gone through training before.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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I did my 'ground school' reading the free FAA material and a $12 ASA test prep book. My CFI did a couple sessions of showing me stuff after flights or if we got canceled, but it wouldn't amount to more than a couple hours probably. He did give me assignments of chapters to read in the PHAK and AFHB before the next lesson that would help cement what we were doing in the plane. It all comes down to how much effort you want to put in on your own at home I guess.
 
I did my own ground school. I did the King's course which gives you the sign off needed to take the written. For any self motivated pilot, ground school is optional with everything that is available out there.
 
drotto said:
I did my own ground school. I did the King's course which gives you the sign off needed to take the written. For any self motivated pilot, ground school is optional with everything that is available out there.
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You did your own preflight and postflight briefings too? I somehow doubt that.
 
Many of the school around here offer a formal ground school, perhaps 4-8 hrs a wk (2 evenings a wk) for 8-12 wks in addition to the pre/post flight. The average cost for these ground schools is $350-$400 and includes materials.

There's a difference between studying for the exam and learning the material in depth. It's entirely up to the student what they wish to do.
 
dmspilot said:
You did your own preflight and postflight briefings too? I somehow doubt that.
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Preflight and Postflight were part of the lesson, and were generally done in the plane for a few minutes before take off and after landing while refueling and putting the plane away. I was then told what to review on my own. In general, I would arrive at the airport and would be in the air within 10 minutes. When I mean ground school, I mean sitting in a classroom for extended periods, and having lesson days (or periods) that would not include actual flight. I did maybe 2 hours and that was oral test prep that the instructor required to sign me off for my check ride.
 
drotto said:
Preflight and Postflight were part of the lesson, and were generally done in the plane for a few minutes before take off and after landing while refueling and putting the plane away. I was then told what to review on my own. In general, I would arrive at the airport and would be in the air within 10 minutes. When I mean ground school, I mean sitting in a classroom for extended periods, and having lesson days (or periods) that would not include actual flight. I did maybe 2 hours and that was oral test prep that the instructor required to sign me off for my check ride.
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Such a scenario is extremely rare. I guess it helps that your dad was a pilot.

True a well motivated student can minimize ground time, but I don't think a flight school should be punished for offering realistic estimates.
 
I say get clarity what they are referring to by ground instruction. There are basically 3 kinds of ground: one on one, commonly part of a flight lesson before after flight; group, which costs the school less to do several students at once, but will be like school where they target the average student and you either get left behind or bored waiting for others to be repeated to; and online or independent study.
I would caution being oversold by them on the “value” of group or online ground instruction in dollar equivalence. They may tell you the class is worth $1000, when, as others have said, you can do it on your own by reading $30 of books and asking your instructor for occasional clarification. An online “course” is possibly a nicely packaged way to cost you more. You might like it better if you care to spend the money. It is not required.

But if they are just estimating how many one on one hours you will consume that do not require aircraft hours, then it is just a guideline. You can use less as needed.
 
murphey said:
Many of the school around here offer a formal ground school, perhaps 4-8 hrs a wk (2 evenings a wk) for 8-12 wks in addition to the pre/post flight. The average cost for these ground schools is $350-$400 and includes materials.

There's a difference between studying for the exam and learning the material in depth. It's entirely up to the student what they wish to do.
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Many? I only know of two. Not saying there aren’t more, but who?
 
I also attended a formal ground school, which followed a Jeppesen standardized format and covered all or nearly all basic aspects of general aviation. Was it necessary to pass the written? No. Did it give me a good basic understanding of aviation? Yes. Did it have anything to do with any specific airplane I would fly? No. That's what the additional ground training does. What are the V-speeds for a Cessna 172 and what do they mean? How do you perform a proper pre-flight? What is unique about this airport and airspace? There are many aspects of flying that will be unique to your situation and location. Some CFIs may try to impart this knowledge during flight, when you are trying to juggle 14 things and keep the plane in the air - which can be difficult for a low time student.
 
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