Grimes Rotating Beacon

flyingcheesehead said:
So - Let's say there was a hangar rash incident that crushed a wingtip. Plane's owner gets a wingtip from a salvage yard, paints it himself (hopefully for him, well enough to avoid detection), and installs it.

How is either the FAA or the A&P/IA going to know that it happened, or who did it? If the plane is sold, how is the next owner going to know?

Sadly, there is WAY too much of this going on out there. :frown2:
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to restate,,,,,,, when the FAA sees that maintenance has been completed .
 
denverpilot said:
Agreed Kent.

There's also way too much, "We can't allow you in our shop for insurance reasons, no matter how well you know how to turn a screwdriver and follow simple directions," too.

I keep hearing these stories of the mythical IA who will work with owners. We haven't found one yet, and three shops we've approached simply refuse to do owner-assisted Annuals or any other work. They do a good job, but having grown up working on everything I own, with a Great Depression farmer grandfather who fixed everything rather than throw it out, and a father who does the same...

Not being able to help take inspection covers off, and get down and dirty with the airplane, really peeves me off.

Example: The screws on the airplane are old and some are loose. I'd like to get a nice set of stainless steel replacements and work my way methodically around the aircraft with a mechanic checking behind me later, and just replace them all. I don't think it's unreasonable to do this for anyone with a brain bigger than a grape seed, but to do it here at any of the shops we've used, I'd have to beg really hard, and they'd still say no. Liability.

It may just mean that long, long, term... Building is in my future. But I don't build my cars, and work on those. And I know when I'm out of my league and hire a mechanic on them.

Anyway, still looking for that friendly A&P/IA who works with owners at our airport. I think they keep them somewhere near the Unicorns and Leprechauns. ;-)
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as you have stated above, you will not find a free lanced A&P-IA working in the FBO. Talk to FSDO see who has a IA in your area. call the list until you find one who is willing to work with you.

with the advent of the new policy on renewal the IAs that are worried about the new policy may be looking for a way to be actively engaged. and your phone call might be what they are hoping for.
 
weirdjim said:
www.rstengineering.com/annual

Unicorns and Leprechauns are at another website. :goofy:
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Uhh, Jim... most of the links on the front page come up as "file not found" when followed... Not exactly "confidence inspiring". The "Cover Letter" is the first thing I clicked. Not where the URL points to on the server...

Perhaps us computer geeks could create a multi-year program to train up some Website/A&P's to work on that thing, and an even longer program that would provide a Website/IA to sign off that people are practicing "Safe Internet"! :p
 
denverpilot said:
Uhh, Jim... most of the links on the front page come up as "file not found" when followed... Not exactly "confidence inspiring". The "Cover Letter" is the first thing I clicked. Not where the URL points to on the server...

Perhaps us computer geeks could create a multi-year program to train up some Website/A&P's to work on that thing, and an even longer program that would provide a Website/IA to sign off that people are practicing "Safe Internet"! :p
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Links worked for me...
 
denverpilot said:
Uhh, Jim... most of the links on the front page come up as "file not found" when followed... Not exactly "confidence inspiring". The "Cover Letter" is the first thing I clicked. Not where the URL points to on the server...! :p
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I checked each link about ten minutes before I posted.

Jim...:dunno:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
So in this case, since they can't tell, nothing will happen - And that is the weakness of logbooks. :(
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that's true, better to be absent of an entry, than to be self incriminated.

the first post did maintenance that has no reference acceptable to the admin, as required by FAR 43.2. The FSDO can make a case on that alone.
 
Resurrecting this...back to my problem (2 yrs ago?) with the beacon....Cleaned the contacts and used an old toothbrush to clean out the many years (decades?) of accumulated crud in the area, and it works fine.

Last week at OSH I picked up the Whelen LED for the tail position light. Easy install directions, got the STC with it, but haven't installed it yet. Tom-D mentioned in this thread to do the paperwork first, then the install. With the STC, is a 337 needed or just the A&P signoff and no other paperwork? I know with the proliferation of LED landing lights the rules have changed for the better but I'm not sure about the position tail light.

Side note: Talking to the Whelen folks at the show last week, the new Orion line is very interesting - surface mount, everything self-contained, only needs the 2 or 3 wire connection to power & ground. Much easier to install.
 
Hi Nathan. I Googled "LPS" with nothing like what you are talking about. Can you give me more information on this product?
 
murphey said:
Resurrecting this...back to my problem (2 yrs ago?) with the beacon....Cleaned the contacts and used an old toothbrush to clean out the many years (decades?) of accumulated crud in the area, and it works fine.

Last week at OSH I picked up the Whelen LED for the tail position light. Easy install directions, got the STC with it, but haven't installed it yet. Tom-D mentioned in this thread to do the paperwork first, then the install. With the STC, is a 337 needed or just the A&P signoff and no other paperwork? I know with the proliferation of LED landing lights the rules have changed for the better but I'm not sure about the position tail light.

Side note: Talking to the Whelen folks at the show last week, the new Orion line is very interesting - surface mount, everything self-contained, only needs the 2 or 3 wire connection to power & ground. Much easier to install.
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If your plane is covered by the STC just (have your IA) bolt it on and fill out the 337, Tom's statement on doing the paperwork first was for a plane not specifically covered by the STC.
 
You can even still get parts for the grimes, but I was amazed how well the thing was designed be serviced. I couldn't believe that the motor was held together with two screws rather than being some mass-pressed together thing that was designed to be replaced rather than opened up and cleaned.
 
Thanks Duncan for the link. I had heard about the silicone lubricant that didn't attract dust, etc., but did not know exactly what it was.

Thanks again.
 
weirdjim said:
Can anybody point me to the chapter and verse of the FAR that gives the technical specs for the rotating beacon ... angles, candlepower, and all that stuff?

I'm getting ready to do a Kitplanes article to show how to make an LED true "rotating" beacon for less than $50 in parts and it would be nice to be able to give the technical specs that it has to meet.

I don't know how Grimes does theirs...is it a flasher or truly rotating in a sense? My idea is to have three of them -aft and two sides - and "rotate" them by flashing in sequence (left, aft, right, left, aft, right...)

Comments appreciated. :cheerswine:

Jim
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You might look at TSO C96a.pdf (Attached).
 

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murphey said:
Resurrecting this...back to my problem (2 yrs ago?) with the beacon....Cleaned the contacts and used an old toothbrush to clean out the many years (decades?) of accumulated crud in the area, and it works fine.

Last week at OSH I picked up the Whelen LED for the tail position light. Easy install directions, got the STC with it, but haven't installed it yet. Tom-D mentioned in this thread to do the paperwork first, then the install. With the STC, is a 337 needed or just the A&P signoff and no other paperwork? I know with the proliferation of LED landing lights the rules have changed for the better but I'm not sure about the position tail light.

Side note: Talking to the Whelen folks at the show last week, the new Orion line is very interesting - surface mount, everything self-contained, only needs the 2 or 3 wire connection to power & ground. Much easier to install.
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My tail strobe power supply (Whelen A490ATS) has failed....I came across the Orion OR500...looks very interesting...apparently designed to replace existing Whelen stones....BUT the Whelen website says no PMA/STC only that it is TSO'd....what does that mean? Can I install it on my Mooney or not?
 
awquick said:
My tail strobe power supply (Whelen A490ATS) has failed....I came across the Orion OR500...looks very interesting...apparently designed to replace existing Whelen stones....BUT the Whelen website says no PMA/STC only that it is TSO'd....what does that mean? Can I install it on my Mooney or not?
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best bet is to contact Whelen by telephone or email. Or a local A&P.
 
nyoung said:
Hi All. The Grimes Rotating Beacon in the Cherokee had begun to spin very slowly (if at all). Plane is in for annual, so I decided to see what was wrong with the beacon.


  • I hooked the beacon up to a 13.8VDC source with an ammeter in series and found that when stalled, the beacon was pulling 2.2 to 2.4Amps!
  • Next, I found one of the gears that mates with the worm gear to be a bit mis-shapen, I filed that down slightly, and the beacon began to spin faster, and at less current. About 1.7A.
  • LPS'd the gears and got it down to 1.4A, while simultaneously improving rotation speed.
  • I was about to give up (happy that it was working again), but instead decided to use brake cleaner and a toothbrush to clean all the gears, then re-LPS. Wow! What a difference. The thing spins like a helicopter rotor, and only 0.6 Amps draw. Nice!
(all the current/amps figures are without the light installed - motor only).

Replacement LED beacons are a few $hundred, and I've heard that an overhaul of the Grimes is $600. So, I'm quite pleased my 2 hrs of goofing around saved that money. Hopefully this info can/will help someone else on POA.
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Hello, newbie here..Thanks for the great explanation, I just bought an older 172 and it has the large Grimes beacon on the upper rear fuselage

it spins ok but is noisy..... the bigger problem is both bulbs are out

I don't really want to replace the bulbs ($20/ea) just to find there is a wiring problem... it seems unlikely that both would be out, makes me think the problem is not the bulbs

is there an easy way to test it?, its hard to hold a voltmeter to a socket that is rotating... and I have never used a voltmeter so I don't know what I'm looking for

does anyone know anyone who could clean and lube the gears without charging $600 for an overhaul?

is there a diagram available that shows disassembly/reassembly etc

any help would be greatly appreciated
thanks
John
 
The Grimes beacon is trivial easy. Take the thing out of the tail. The whole thing disassembles including the motor itself (held together with two screws). Mine turned really, really, slowly until I disassembled it and cleaned it up. While it's apart you can check the wiring to the bulbs. I'm pretty sure you can still get parts.
 
Tom-D said:
because the modification is not in the type design.

any modification requires approval in one manor or other.
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Nothing against Tom because he was only answering the question but it brings up the point that "types designs" are 60 years old. What does it take to cut the red tape and bring this type of crap into the 21st century?
 
Last edited:
So how did you take The assembly apart to clean it. Is it obvious how to take it apart to get to the gears.


nyoung said:
Hi All. The Grimes Rotating Beacon in the Cherokee had begun to spin very slowly (if at all). Plane is in for annual, so I decided to see what was wrong with the beacon.


  • I hooked the beacon up to a 13.8VDC source with an ammeter in series and found that when stalled, the beacon was pulling 2.2 to 2.4Amps!
  • Next, I found one of the gears that mates with the worm gear to be a bit mis-shapen, I filed that down slightly, and the beacon began to spin faster, and at less current. About 1.7A.
  • LPS'd the gears and got it down to 1.4A, while simultaneously improving rotation speed.
  • I was about to give up (happy that it was working again), but instead decided to use brake cleaner and a toothbrush to clean all the gears, then re-LPS. Wow! What a difference. The thing spins like a helicopter rotor, and only 0.6 Amps draw. Nice!
(all the current/amps figures are without the light installed - motor only).

Replacement LED beacons are a few $hundred, and I've heard that an overhaul of the Grimes is $600. So, I'm quite pleased my 2 hrs of goofing around saved that money. Hopefully this info can/will help someone else on POA.
Click to expand...
 
Timbeck2 said:
Nothing against Tom because he was only answering the question but it brings up the point that "types designs" are 60 years old. What does it take to cut the red tape and bring this type of crap into the 21st century?
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Yeah... it's even older than this thread!!
 
FAA: "Mr. Smith, we've received a report that you've been operating your aircraft with a FUNCTIONING rotating beacon. Please present your log books for immediate inspection! Hey Joe, put that whole 737 Max deal on hold. We've got to get to the bottom of this. The safety of the flying public could be at stake!"
 
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