Greenhorn wants to sell a plane. Use a broker??

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libertas

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libertas
Backstory.

Looking to sell a cabin class twin cessna that has been in our business since '78. I'm not comfortable, nor insurable to fly it, so it needs to go (legal to fly it, however very low time). I will replace it with a Bonanza of some sort, which would be reasonable to insure. Never sold or bought an airplane, so I'm assuming the safest way to not get stripped naked is to use a broker. However, I'm not sure I want to pay a broker, as the initial fee thrown out was pretty steep. Thoughts??
 
I dunno, some might think the way to get stripped naked would be to use a broker.
 
You'll likely get as many different opinions on this matter as you get responses.

My opinion, a cabin class twin Cessna is a complex airplane with a very wide sales price range. If the aircraft in question is above average, I would want a qualified broker helping with the sale or else you may take a bath.
 
This is a complex aircraft. I would find a reputable broker. I feel that often they pay for their commission.
 
libertas said:
… I'm not sure I want to pay a broker, as the initial fee thrown out was pretty steep. Thoughts??
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There’s plenty of brokers out there with plenty of fee structures. Think of this as a B2B transaction…what value do you want the broker to provide and at what cost are you willing to spend for that value?

Does the broker need to know who to involve to structure a 1031 or 179 exchange? What about the market…who’s the top broker in the cabin class twin market…why are they top? A broker that can move a plane quick may not be able to bring in top dollar.

You run a business, so does the broker…what all services do you want them to perform…turnkey sale or marketing only and DIY the rest?

Then there’s Van Bortel.
 
You could wait a couple months and sell it to me?
 
eman1200 said:
bruh, get in line and also get your multi. until then, zip it! :happydance:

besides, you got TBM written all over you. cool beard guy doesn't fly a piston.
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Training is in motion... I like TBMs but need something that’ll get me into Gaston’s.
 
libertas said:
Backstory.

Looking to sell a cabin class twin cessna that has been in our business since '78. I'm not comfortable, nor insurable to fly it, so it needs to go (legal to fly it, however very low time). I will replace it with a Bonanza of some sort, which would be reasonable to insure. Never sold or bought an airplane, so I'm assuming the safest way to not get stripped naked is to use a broker. However, I'm not sure I want to pay a broker, as the initial fee thrown out was pretty steep. Thoughts??
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What’s your location and what plane are you selling?

I’ve seen brokers who have excellent photos, clean up the airplane and have high prices. I’ve seen others who sell at very good market rates that typically sell within a week or two. Do you know the market rate and what you can get for it? A broker might have more knowledge about this. But you can also put the word out and try a couple classifieds and see how the response goes too.
 
It's a 414A.

3240 hrs, one owner, professional pilot, always hangared, front range of CO.....

Out of annual 2+ years IIRC, not RAM converted, somewhere past mid life engines. I need to reveiew the logbooks, but one repair for hangar rash that I know of. No major damage.

The number initially thrown out is in the neighborhood of $15K+ to market it. That's a lot of money that could fund insurance for a few years.

I have only seen one 414A that is lower time being sold by the youtube guy, and that appears to be under contract. This could be the new lowest time plane on the market.
Edit: He how has a listing for a foreign aircraft with lower time, so it may be the lowest time in the US, FWIW.
 
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Potential buyers will be more concerned about two years of non-use than impressed with low total time. Most brokers sell on a percentage, with a minimum. If I were you, I’d get a broker, pay him whatever it took to move this airplane quickly, and be glad I wasn’t selling in a normal market.

And $15k probably wouldn’t cover adequate insurance for one year, let alone “a few.”
 
Normally, it’s 10%, more expensive airplane might be less. So assuming $300k, that’s $30k for the broker.
 
Normally, with little experience buying or selling, I recommend a "good" broker. The problem is finding a good one. As someone else said, some brokers will be the first to strip you nekkid. But a good one will save you thousands and make the process quick and easy. Additionally, if you use a broker, it is easier to set up a "trade" wherein you can avoid sales tax up to the sales price of plane you sell. Not sure how that will work in your case since it is a corporate plane. Will you new plane be in your name or the Company, or are they the same thing?

If you are thinking about a Bonanza, have you joined Beechtalk yet? There are a couple of excellent, well regarded brokers that hang out there. There may also be some here, but I'm not sure. Perhaps someone will chime in with a recommendation.

I said normally, I would recommend a broker, but in this market, if you can at least talk "airplane" you may just want to set a higher price and advertise it for a while and see what happens. The process isn't that difficult. You just need to do it right.
 
libertas said:
Thoughts??
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FWIW: from the maintenance side, unless you have someone who is experienced in these matters its been my experience when it comes to cabin-class twins, turbines, and helicopters to use some sort of broker/dealer services as the mx component becomes a bit more involved than a single Cessna, etc. As for finding a dealer/broker there are various associations that you can use as a starting point in addition to networking through various financial/insurance companies, forums, etc. Here's one association I've dealt with before but it might be a little rich for your requirements. Or perhaps AOPA can offer a direction considering they offer all the services of buying an aircraft??
https://iada.aero/
 
JOhnH said:
Normally, with little experience buying or selling, I recommend a "good" broker. The problem is finding a good one. As someone else said, some brokers will be the first to strip you nekkid. But a good one will save you thousands and make the process quick and easy. Additionally, if you use a broker, it is easier to set up a "trade" wherein you can avoid sales tax up to the sales price of plane you sell. Not sure how that will work in your case since it is a corporate plane. Will you new plane be in your name or the Company, or are they the same thing?

If you are thinking about a Bonanza, have you joined Beechtalk yet? There are a couple of excellent, well regarded brokers that hang out there. There may also be some here, but I'm not sure. Perhaps someone will chime in with a recommendation.

I said normally, I would recommend a broker, but in this market, if you can at least talk "airplane" you may just want to set a higher price and advertise it for a while and see what happens. The process isn't that difficult. You just need to do it right.
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The plane will stay in the company name. Trading to prevent sales tax would be a big problem plus. Thanks.
 
libertas said:
The plane will stay in the company name. Trading to prevent sales tax would be a big problem plus. Thanks.
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I did forget to mention that the sales tax angle is state-specific. I know it works in Florida and many other states, but I don't know about all states.
 
libertas said:
The plane will stay in the company name.
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Assuming someone wants to do the due diligence to feel comfortable enough to acquire the company's unknown liabilities and the company is willing to open its records to the degree requested.

I'd ordinarily also assume you've already covered that with your business lawyer but you know what they say about assuming,
 
libertas said:
It's a 414A.

3240 hrs, one owner, professional pilot, always hangared, front range of CO.....

Out of annual 2+ years IIRC, not RAM converted, somewhere past mid life engines. I need to reveiew the logbooks, but one repair for hangar rash that I know of. No major damage.

The number initially thrown out is in the neighborhood of $15K+ to market it. That's a lot of money that could fund insurance for a few years.

I have only seen one 414A that is lower time being sold by the youtube guy, and that appears to be under contract. This could be the new lowest time plane on the market.
Edit: He how has a listing for a foreign aircraft with lower time, so it may be the lowest time in the US, FWIW.
Click to expand...
Talk to Spencer…he can point you in the right direction. Don’t know him? PM me…he’s in one of the box hangars on the NE side of the field.
 
Get it annualed and flown a bit? Take airworthiness out of the ad (annual due 1/23 vs last annual was 2020).

Use a broker. Who flew it previously? Father or uncle or something (ETA mother/aunt)?

If you are running the business I’d hire someone to sell the plane. Maybe talk to your peers who have purchased/sold business aircraft and ask who they’ve used?
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
Get it annualed and flown a bit? Take airworthiness out of the ad (annual due 1/23 vs last annual was 2020).

Use a broker. Who flew it previously? Father or uncle or something (ETA mother/aunt)?

If you are running the business I’d hire someone to sell the plane. Maybe talk to your peers who have purchased/sold business aircraft and ask who they’ve used?
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I agree, an airplane that is two years out of annual is a huge issue for most buyers. The low time is wonderful, if it’s been upgraded along the way. A non-Ram 414A with old avionics, to me is worth a lot less than a 6000 hour airframe with RAM engines and an updated panel. Bill Barton with Atlanta Aircraft Sales specializes in 414A’s, 770-318-0301 he’s a good honest guy.
 
That may be a valid strategy: Get an annual and lease it out. I do want to trade it into something pretty soon though....

We found a broker that has a history with our retired pilot.
 
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