Grass strip help

Here in Iowa where we have lots of farmland, the consensus from "flying farmers" is - just do it. Make sure it's not close (1000') to neighbors and certainly not to close to town. If you can get 2500' its plenty long but most around here are 2000' - 2200'. I've had my Bonanza into a lot of them without any issue. But then again I'm based on a 2200' grass strip anyway. Most people don't even notify the FAA because the FAA really doesn't care, and because of this they don't need to know.
Width is whatever you are comfortable with. One strip I go into is only 45' wide with beans on one side and corn the other. Gives a new meaning of "staying on the center line"!


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Here is a nice 400 x 18 strip out in Idaho...

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Henning said:
Super Cub, Helio Courier, Katmai 182, most any Ultralight, any of those will work.
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I call BS on that. With that wind mill at the end almost right in the middle of the runway. Looks like an accident waiting to happen.

No one I know would land on that little piece of ground. Then all the other little things sticking up all around.
 
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1600vw said:
I call BS on that. With that wind mill at the end almost right in the middle of the runway. Looks like an accident waiting to happen.

No one I know would land on that little piece of ground. Then all the other little things sticking up all around.
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I didn't say the windmill wasn't a hazard, the question was what could work off that strip, those are the ones I can think of to do it. The windmill and runway coordination is a nightmare.
 
So this thread has gone from Grass strip help to bush flying. Flying a bush plane, landing area's are everywhere.

Not everyone flies bush planes and these folks need some sort of strip of ground bigger then a postage stamp to land on.

Maybe we all should buy bush planes then this will never be an issue. Land anywhere you want.

Tony
 
PA. may have some requirements that seem excessive but it is for your safety and others that may fly in.
The important thing is preparation, it's kind of like a paint job on a car, it's the prep of what's under paint or in this case grass that makes a difference.
You are in farm country, try and get a land leveler,crown it slightly, make sure you get the water away, align it with normal prevailing winds if you can, consider neighbors ,noise ,trees, fences, POWER LINES, buildings and consider livestock (yours or neighbors as far as scaring or stampeding them)
I have a Grass airstrip open to the public. Working on two more, Couple of things:
You probably need a disc for preparation before you plant grass ,never after :wink2:
Roller -yes We use a 500 gal. propane tank filled with water( hint drain it before winter)
Tractor/mower or mower( zeroturn)-yes , the wider the better (I have a 14ft finish batwing mower that after 3 or 4 hrs of mowingit is too small.
Some say 100 ft is too wide, you may want 100ft for those days you are flying in and you have a pretty stout cross wind.more wiggle room. Remember you may be more skilled than others that may attempt to use it.
As far as length the more the better we have 2,600 ft and there are days that the guys say you only need 1,500 are flying in the are right down to the 2,500 or 2,600 ft mark because they misjudged something, grass was wet, tail wind etc. On a hot muggy day for take offs, longer is better, consider not everyone fly's in light, they may have a 182 full of fuel with 4 big people aboard. Granted it is up to the PIC to not create a situation, but you may have to look at and clean up pile of aluminum. People are dumb, yes even some pilots.
In PA. you have a RUS (recreational use statute) that will protect the landowner as long as you don't charge for use. The RUS will help whether you have invited or un invited fly in guests.
Here in Michigan the Aeronautics Dept ( Airport Inspection Manager) has been very helpful. Maybe get in touch with yours.
Check with regs. but if you make it public your airspace will be protected by a tall structures act, if you don't your neighbor who hates your plane ,noise etc. will try and arrange a wind generator or a cell tower in line with your approach or departure.
Also if you have big plans for the future the FAA starts taking you serious when you have over 2,500ft. Plan on expansion for length even though you may never use it.
Call me if I can help in any way.
Brad Frederick- RAF Mi. Liaison(Recreational Aviation Foundation)
1 248 761 5615 cell
 
1600vw said:
So this thread has gone from Grass strip help to bush flying. Flying a bush plane, landing area's are everywhere.

Not everyone flies bush planes and these folks need some sort of strip of ground bigger then a postage stamp to land on.
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The point is that you don't really need to build more than you really need.

Maybe we all should buy bush planes then this will never be an issue. Land anywhere you want.

Tony
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Works for me.
 
Where in penna.? That's the first question. If your out in the boonies, bradford, warren emporium, near state college, etc. I don't think anyone would care if you put in a private strip that was " out in the country". There's a lot of them. The location is everything. No advice is really relavant without it. Check out Ohio bush planes, especially the rans 7 which could land on the strip pictured very easily and the wind mill would be no problem. Skill enters the equation big time here.
 
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No regulations in my county. Only filed the Notice of Intended Landing Area form. Got the letter after the airspace study - no objections. It took a lot of bulldozer and speed mover work to get it smooth. Then fertilizer and landscape raking, then Bermuda sprigging. I did this this season and it is filling in nicely. Only time I've been thankful for crab grass since it was doing most of the soil holding. Rained 2 inches Monday night and I landed on it Tuesday evening (light braking). I have obstacles off both ends 25' trees/powerlines right on the north end and 70' trees 500' from the south end with 2000' mowed grass. I wouldn't recommend much smaller for continuous use.
 

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txflyer said:
The first question you should answer OP is do you have the equipment to maintain a strip?

You'll need a disc and a cultipacker (heavy ass roller), a tractor of coarse, and a mower.

My farm strip is 1500' long @ 300' elevation with obstacles on both ends. It's a little tight for me, but I'm not a pro bush pilot. A pro would probably think it's enough for a 747. I'd recommend at least a 2000' strip for heavy operations in a 182 or similar. Maybe more depending on your altitude and obstacles. Build it as long as you can. You may want a Bo or a twin someday ... :)






http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/jamminloud/media/20140624_185952_zpse4e0d511.jpg.html
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I wish I would have had that piece of equipment when I was working mine over. The north 300' are a little rough but the rest is smooth. I can't imagine needing to use that after the grass is established.
 
83Golf said:
I wish I would have had that piece of equipment when I was working mine over. The north 300' are a little rough but the rest is smooth. I can't imagine needing to use that after the grass is established.
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My strip sits like a bowl. Higher on both ends than in the middle. This leads to some erosion on the high ends when it rains hard.

And we have feral hogs who love it when you have a nice pretty patch of bermudagrass. Or any grass. They go after the grub worms under the surface and can turn a big area into a moonscape in one night. The disc and the roller are not just for the strip, but the entire ranch where they tear it up. If you lightly disc and then roll it down tight, the grass will not die. The soil must be compacted around the roots of the grass or it will die if the roots dry out.

But you're right. Once a bermudagrass strip is established, and you don't have hogs, or gophers, or erosion, you shouldn't need a disc. :redface:
 
txflyer said:
And we have feral hogs who love it when you have a nice pretty patch of bermudagrass. Or any grass.
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This is nothing a well placed CIWS gun can't handle for you. Consequently it will also handle trespassing aircraft.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
This is nothing a well placed CIWS gun can't handle for you. Consequently it will also handle trespassing aircraft.
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I do not mean to hijack this thread, but myself when owners of an airstrip say this to me I just shake my head and walk away. We can't even play nice together.

A little strip of 400' - 2500' strips only bring in like minded people who fly small airplanes. But lets just shoot them all.

We have a man who owns a field here in central IL. Everyone knows if you land there you are in a world of hurt. The worse part. He is president of an EAA chapter and they are located at this field. He also holds an annual fly-in.

How many do you think fly-in to this? This year he had maybe 4 airplanes on the field and they all where hangared at this field.

If you do not want people flying in to your airfield, do what the man in the pic a few post up did. Put windmills on the ends of the runway.

Everyone will avoid you like the plaque.

Tony
 
1600vw said:
I do not mean to hijack this thread, but myself when owners of an airstrip say this to me I just shake my head and walk away. We can't even play nice together.

A little strip of 400' - 2500' strips only bring in like minded people who fly small airplanes. But lets just shoot them all.

We have a man who owns a field here in central IL. Everyone knows if you land there you are in a world of hurt. The worse part. He is president of an EAA chapter and they are located at this field. He also holds an annual fly-in.

How many do you think fly-in to this? This year he had maybe 4 airplanes on the field and they all where hangared at this field.

If you do not want people flying in to your airfield, do what the man in the pic a few post up did. Put windmills on the ends of the runway.

Everyone will avoid you like the plaque.

Tony
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Back when Harold Miller was still alive and had his Ag strip and school up in Leland IL, we'd get gliders setting down all the time, no worries. On guy flew in in a 175 and said, 'I just bought a place down the way, can I keep my plane here? What do you charge." "I don't charge anything, you can keep your plane here, just don't sue me."
 
Just me but, When you land on a grass strip you take the risk. Animals can dig holes in the middle of the night, animals can come running from out of no where, all sorts of things can be wrong you do not find on a paved strip.

But maybe its just me, but I would not hold the land owner liable if a moll dug a trench across the runway. Not a lot the land owner can do. Now if the runway is full of moll holes and no maint. is being done that is another story.

But if you land on a maintained airstrip and find something like this. Its just bad luck.

Maybe we need a big stencil that says...Land at your own risk...paint this right down the middle of the runway.

But just me. Anytime you land on a grass strip you....Land At Your Own Risk
Tony
 
1600vw said:
I call BS on that. With that wind mill at the end almost right in the middle of the runway. Looks like an accident waiting to happen.

No one I know would land on that little piece of ground. Then all the other little things sticking up all around.
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Clearly you shouldn't try it in any aircraft.

Given some slope and no obstructions on the operating end (which may well be the case with this one) not so tough in something like a Maule. Drag it in over the grass and land into the slope, easy to hit the mark and it will stop almost by itself. Takeoff down hill. Know the plane, the strip and the wind. (Add a 10' obstruction to the threshold, forget the Maule which isn't the best bush or STOL plane)

Sailplane, no problem in, trailer out.
 
Henning said:
I have seen plenty of animals run across paved strips.
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Most not all paved strips have a fence around them. So yes you could see some animals crossing the strip, but not like a grass strip with no fencing lined by corn fields and such.

On a paved strip its few and far between when a Fox, coyote, opossum, skunk and many of the other small animals you have running around cross the pavement.

On grass strips you see this stuff all the time along with trucks, cars, 4x4, dirt bikes, go karts, ect.....

Land at your own risk when landing at a small grass field. If sh#t happens, well, sh#t happens.
 
Henning said:
I have seen plenty of animals run across paved strips.
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Yeah, this. Neighborhood gang of deer at Lakeway (near Austin), coyotes and bunnies (symbiotic relationship) at Addison.
 
1600vw said:
Just me but, When you land on a grass strip you take the risk. Animals can dig holes in the middle of the night, animals can come running from out of no where, all sorts of things can be wrong you do not find on a paved strip.

But maybe its just me, but I would not hold the land owner liable if a moll dug a trench across the runway. Not a lot the land owner can do. Now if the runway is full of moll holes and no maint. is being done that is another story.

But if you land on a maintained airstrip and find something like this. Its just bad luck.

Maybe we need a big stencil that says...Land at your own risk...paint this right down the middle of the runway.

But just me. Anytime you land on a grass strip you....Land At Your Own Risk
Tony
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Yeah, the animal thing is a real problem and that's not a whole lot you can do except avoid the airport. I live on grass with lights which is great since I can operate at night but that's also when the ground creatures are moving. The IR camera available for my EFIS has been considered more than once. But the best solution is just to avoid night operations whenever practical.

I've hit a couple of animals over the years - I'm most afraid of large bird strikes though just because of the results I've seen and experienced.

As far as ground stuff; holes, fences, drainage, etc. I've got a couple dozen off airport landings in sailplanes. The trick there is to look for discontinuities in the ground surface - color, vegetation, whatever. Don't roll over discontinuities.... but gliders don't roll far.

Drainage can be tricky. Checkout private Cox Field near Raleigh http://www.airnav.com/airport/NC81. It's a field where operations are slope driven but when you look at the aerial photo you'll see a pond on one end of the runway which says to me that is the low end. However the pond is on top of the hill and is the high end of the runway (??!!). My first time in there I wouldn't land until someone confirmed the slope on the radio.

Generally land uphill over wind direction and don't fly thru or roll over any discontinuities.
As far
 
I was on short final at a large fenced in highly secure delta at night. It was probably a coyote or deer. Neither I no my CFI saw the animal, since it was dark. But someone on the ground saw it walking between the lights. All I knew was someone got on the radio and yelled "Go around! Go around!"

Don't have to tell me twice. Someone on the radio yelling "STOP!" or "GO!" as far as I'm concerned is an ask questions later situation.
 
txflyer said:
Mr., I don't know you, but you clearly don't know doodly-squat about feral hogs..... :nonod:
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No, I don't know much about feral hogs. However, I'm fairly certain that a 20mm M61 gatling gun laying down 75 rounds per second would take one out. In fact, you might not even know it was a hog. And with enough shots, the runway might actually be a hard surface of lead and tungsten!
 
1600vw said:
Most not all paved strips have a fence around them.
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Pedals2Paddles said:
LOL. Not really.
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What Pedals said! Very few, if any, uncontrolled fields in this area are fenced at all.

Tony,

You're really not an optimist or cheery person are you? Gloom and doom seems to be your forte. Especially when it comes to grass strips. Don't like 'em then don't fly on 'em. But many of us would rather smoke...er...land on grass than on pavement.

Any day, all day long, wheel pants on, wheel pants off, private, public, the whole gamut, never had a problem.

Hide in your basement if you want/need to Tony...but leave us grass lovers alone.

I've logged at least 500 landings on grass. Nary an issue.
 
Bill Watson said:
Clearly you shouldn't try it in any aircraft.

Given some slope and no obstructions on the operating end (which may well be the case with this one) not so tough in something like a Maule. Drag it in over the grass and land into the slope, easy to hit the mark and it will stop almost by itself. Takeoff down hill. Know the plane, the strip and the wind. (Add a 10' obstruction to the threshold, forget the Maule which isn't the best bush or STOL plane)

Sailplane, no problem in, trailer out.
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A maule is an excellent backcountry aircraft. Why do you think the CIA used them a great deal in Vietnam? A pal has one at the local airport with only 180 hp. It's amazing what it will do. But of course he's high time in taildraggers and he's got a lot of time in the maule. This field pictured is easy for a super cub, maule, rans coyote, rans 7 with a 912 ROTAX, cub, champ with 0200, on and on. As for shooting anyone who might land there, anyone who talks like that should not even own an aircraft. Mentally deficient should not fly.
 
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Yeah, look at the tiny strip they land the ultralights on at OSH.

I swear it looks like a football field.

With trees on one end....
 
timwinters said:
What Pedals said! Very few, if any, uncontrolled fields in this area are fenced at all.

Tony,

You're really not an optimist or cheery person are you? Gloom and doom seems to be your forte. Especially when it comes to grass strips. Don't like 'em then don't fly on 'em. But many of us would rather smoke...er...land on grass than on pavement.

Any day, all day long, wheel pants on, wheel pants off, private, public, the whole gamut, never had a problem.

Hide in your basement if you want/need to Tony...but leave us grass lovers alone.

I've logged at least 500 landings on grass. Nary an issue.
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Oh man, I get plum excited when I can find a turf strip. It's like a delicacy.

The 180 LOVES grass. I love it. I'm like a kid on a slip and slide. :goofy:

The 180 HATES pavement. The 180 will hurt you on pavement if you daydream. And I hate on the 180 and talk bad about it on pavement.
 
More hours will cure the 180 on pavement problem. Stearman same way. 195 Cessna same. Time cures it. Great airplane!!! In 50 years I've made hundreds of landings on grass strips both public and private. I've never been accosted by anyone with a gun, never fallen into a gopher hole, mole hole, never hit any animal. Never had a problem of any kind. Most grass strips only operate in the day time that I know of so night operations are a moot point. At two places, private grass strips I've landed in the Stearman unannounced , I was invited in for lunch. At one, a fellow named brian power water, fed me and I took one of his daughters for a ride. Fantastic gentleman ! If you look him up, he was a well know author and pilot. Half the fun of flying .....for me is the people I've met.
 
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Jimmy cooper said:
More hours will cure the 180 on pavement problem. Stearman same way. 195 Cessna same. Time cures it. Great airplane!!! In 50 years I've made hundreds of landings on grass strips both public and private. I've never been accosted by anyone with a gun, never fallen into a gopher hole, mole hole, never hit any animal. Never had a problem of any kind. Most grass strips only operate in the day time that I know of so night operations are a moot point. At two places, private grass strips I've landed in the Stearman unannounced , I was invited in for lunch. At one, a fellow named brian power water, fed me and I took one of his daughters for a ride. Fantastic gentleman ! If you look him up, he was a well know author and pilot. Half the fun of flying .....for me is the people I've met.
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I have never been made to feel unwelcome at any aerodrome.

If you fly in, the other pilots automatically accept you which is what makes our 'hobby' fantastic.

I have over 450 landings in our 180 now, and I still sit upright on final, and tell myself mentally to "o.k. stay frosty and get on the stick and rudder" when I cross the threshold. :redface:
 
To me, a Cessna 180 is another version of Cadillac of the sky. I always wanted one but could never afford a nice one. Just a wonderful airplane. I would imagine your welcome anywhere you land in that one. Its really nice looking. But your right, not to be taken lightly on landing. Best of luck!
 
Jimmy cooper said:
To me, a Cessna 180 is another version of Cadillac of the sky. I always wanted one but could never afford a nice one. Just a wonderful airplane. I would imagine your welcome anywhere you land in that one. Its really nice looking.
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Thanks. It does draw a crowd.

There can be a G5 parked out there, and the little kiddies will scream they want to see mine.

Then I get to meet their mommy. ;)
 
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