GPS prices to drop?

I don't think so. GLONASS has been around for a while, but the Russians haven't maintained it very well. Since the signals are free to anyone to pick up, any cost reductions would need to come from a competitor to Garmin, Magellen, TomTom, etc.

A lot of countries are interested in the GLONASS and Galileo systems because they aren't run by the USA, and they are less likely to be cut off if they and the USA take a dislike to each other.
 
I wonder how the FAA regulations would treat a satellite navigation system other than the US's GPS. I've never read the regs with that in mind.
 
I wonder how the FAA regulations would treat a satellite navigation system other than the US's GPS. I've never read the regs with that in mind.

Thats a good point. Wonder if the FAA would even recognize it.
 
If it had the same features and the same usability, I would hope the FAA would just consider it the same.

Hope....
 
I just want to see how many different clever ways the acronym "GLONASS" can be used. :D

Like, for example, "Don't sit too close with your back to the bonfire... you'll wind up with a GLONASS."
 
This is what old B.K. Peakhak was predicting way back in 97-98 until he got routy and AOPA kicked him off the boards.
 
eh. I'll believe it when I see it. The Russians are always trying to pull something out of their ass to save themselves. It usually falls through. I really doubt that GPS prices will drop much. About the only reason it would drop that I can think of would be cheaper chips for the Russian system. This could drive prices down--maybe.
 
eh. I'll believe it when I see it. The Russians are always trying to pull something out of their ass to save themselves. It usually falls through. I really doubt that GPS prices will drop much. About the only reason it would drop that I can think of would be cheaper chips for the Russian system. This could drive prices down--maybe.

It wouldn't be hard to undercut the price of the Garmin, that's for sure...
 
It wouldn't be hard to undercut the price of the Garmin, that's for sure...

There are plenty of companies that could do that. Garmin does not own the GPS system, the government does, and as far as I know there is no cost to use it.
 
If you read the article it states they are also planning on producing devices. More devices means more competition, which usually means a reduction in prices for the consumer.
 
If you read the article it states they are also planning on producing devices. More devices means more competition, which usually means a reduction in prices for the consumer.

There are already LOTS of devices, made by LOTS of companies, I don't think people are going to jump on the Russian bandwagon in the United States any time soon.

All you are gaining with the Russian system is another network. The network is already free. There are already tons of manufactures. This isn't going to cause any major decreases in cost. GPSs are also already really damn cheap except in the aviation sector. I suspect the aviation side of things is expensive due to the limited volume and quality standards that must be met or people die.

I doubt this Russian project will ever see any mainstream use.
 
hmm.

Maybe we just need an ask Jesse forum. It would cut out a lot of the useless discussions.
 
hmm.

Maybe we just need an ask Jesse forum. It would cut out a lot of the useless discussions.

My respect for you is dwindling.

You have an opinion. I also have an opinion. My opinion is not the same as yours so that must give you the right to be an ass...
 
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There are plenty of companies that could do that. Garmin does not own the GPS system, the government does, and as far as I know there is no cost to use it.
I believe there is a licensing fee paid to the government for each GPS device. I don't think it's a whole lot but it's not exactly free.

Joe
 
My respect for you is dwindling.

You have an opinion. I also have an opinion. My opinion is not the same as yours so that must give you the right to be an ass...

Keep up the arrogance and you'll get more responses like Michael's.
 
Soon the USA will have its first competitor in the satellite navigation field.
Could this mean a drop is subscriptions?

Yep. I expect the cost of a GPS "subscription" to be virtualy cut in half overnight. (0/2=0:D)


maybe lower GPS unit pricing?
:dunno:

Seriously though, if anything this will drive up the demand and raise prices but I doubt there will be any effect on the current crop of GPS devices (which are gradually getting less expensive already). There may be a new generation that uses both GNSS and GLONASS and you can expect to pay a premium for that capability when it first hits the street (early adopter fee).
 
There are already LOTS of devices, made by LOTS of companies, I don't think people are going to jump on the Russian bandwagon in the United States any time soon.

Ahh, but not a lot of aviation device companies....only really 3 big ones (off the top of my head). Now, if the technology to use the GLONASS is cheaper, then the unit would be cheaper, and therefore, it would drive prices of GLONASS down....

It goes cheap enough, and others will switch to GLONASS, reducing the demand for GPS. Enough reduction in demand, and price will follow. Price drops to a certain point, people switch back to GPS....

Cyclical! Like most economics, but you gotta watch for a long time to see it happen. My hope is that companies like Garmin get off their high horse and stop charging premiums because they can.
 
Ahh, but not a lot of aviation device companies....only really 3 big ones (off the top of my head). Now, if the technology to use the GLONASS is cheaper, then the unit would be cheaper, and therefore, it would drive prices of GLONASS down...
The cost of aviation GPS's is not because of GPS. It's because it's for aviation and we're a bunch of rich pilots. That said my hand held Lowrance GPS is pretty cheap, supports WAAS, and is more feature rich for VFR use than a Garmin 430. The cost of the Garmin 430 obviously has nothing to do with GPS.
 
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I believe there is a licensing fee paid to the government for each GPS device. I don't think it's a whole lot but it's not exactly free.

Joe

I can't find anything that would suggest this. I've looked all over and all I can see is the government saying it's a free public service.
 
If it had the same features and the same usability, I would hope the FAA would just consider it the same.

Hope....
Well, if "reliability" and "monitorability" (is that a word?) are features, then yes. However, isn't RAIM prediction, which is reported by FSS upon request, a function of, among other things, satellite position? Obviously, the Russians' satellites have different positions.
 
eh. I'll believe it when I see it. The Russians are always trying to pull something out of their ass to save themselves. It usually falls through. I really doubt that GPS prices will drop much. About the only reason it would drop that I can think of would be cheaper chips for the Russian system. This could drive prices down--maybe.

??? GLONASS has been around for decades, and GPS's cost less than $100 and they're making a profit with them. The satellite system isn't what makes aviation GPS so expensive, the fact that people will pay it is what keeps them so expensive. There's no reason a 496 should cost more than $350, no reason a 530 should cost more than $1600.
 
??? GLONASS has been around for decades, and GPS's cost less than $100 and they're making a profit with them. The satellite system isn't what makes aviation GPS so expensive, the fact that people will pay it is what keeps them so expensive. There's no reason a 496 should cost more than $350, no reason a 530 should cost more than $1600.

Exactly.
 
I believe there is a licensing fee paid to the government for each GPS device. I don't think it's a whole lot but it's not exactly free.

Joe

I am unaware of one. We use GPS in each device we make but the only licensing fee that is paid is paid to the chip manufacturer for the GPS location assist device. If there is a license fee to the US then they are paying it. There is certainly no way that the government monitors, nor could they, who is receiving the signal as the GPS system is a broadcast one not a two way system.
 
I can't find anything that would suggest this. I've looked all over and all I can see is the government saying it's a free public service.
I remember reading this in Aviation Week and Space Technology, of course I don't have the old magazine. My memory is known to play tricks at times. Quick google did not find it. I'll keep trying.

Joe
 
??? GLONASS has been around for decades, and GPS's cost less than $100 and they're making a profit with them. The satellite system isn't what makes aviation GPS so expensive, the fact that people will pay it is what keeps them so expensive. There's no reason a 496 should cost more than $350, no reason a 530 should cost more than $1600.

Yes it has, GPS has been around for decades too. It is just getting common place. As for costing, I cannot say on here without getting into trouble with my work, but GPS receiver prices are extremely low. They have become commoditized. What you are paying for is not the GPS receiver but the add ons to what you can do with the location information. As for aviation GPS I am sure you are also paying a fee based on certification, lack of volume, and a fudge factor because pilots are rich and they expect to pay a lot for stuff.
 
I believe there is a licensing fee paid to the government for each GPS device. I don't think it's a whole lot but it's not exactly free.

Joe

Nope., The taxpayer already footed(s) the whole bill anyway.
 
Yes it has, GPS has been around for decades too. It is just getting common place. As for costing, I cannot say on here without getting into trouble with my work, but GPS receiver prices are extremely low. They have become commoditized. What you are paying for is not the GPS receiver but the add ons to what you can do with the location information. As for aviation GPS I am sure you are also paying a fee based on certification, lack of volume, and a fudge factor because pilots are rich and they expect to pay a lot for stuff.

When GPS first came on the civilian maritime market in the late 80's, I did a bit of Beta testing of Furuno stuff. Back then it just gave you a Lat-Long, and the first one they gave me was lucky to put me within 600 miles (bad board) and I thought, "Well, they can keep this junk." After the first trip they changed out the board, things got much better and it was always within 100'. When DGPS came out, My DGPS 53 head connected to my laptop running charting software always had me within a few feet. That receiver cost just under $400 and it was all contained within the antenna bulb.
 
There are plenty of companies that could do that. Garmin does not own the GPS system, the government does, and as far as I know there is no cost to use it.

Yes, there are, however few can do it on the scale that Garmin can. They have acquired where it made sense (UPSAT, for example) and competed where it made sense (Lowrance). Here are some points for your consideration:

+ Garmin has a process of innovation, product investment, and research that blows most out of the water. 40.9% of their yearly R/D budget goes into Aviation; whereas aviation only makes up 13% of their net sales stream (and only has a 15.20% contribution rate to operating income [OI]). OI on the Aviation business alone is 36.2%, which is a substantial margin, but the contribution rate to the rest of the company is in line with the net sales allocation (although every point counts)

+ Garmin prices may be inflated due to supply chain issues. Garmin distributes through a many-retailer model, which can negatively impact price as the cost of holding such stock (which may not sell very quickly) drives up the net cost of the distributor doing business. While this may not have bearing on Garmin's business (I am unaware of how they finance units sold to the retailler), it is something to bear in mind from a price perspective

+ Garmin has a mature operating and delivery model. Garmin has built thier GPS line on a stable platform and has continually enabled optimization and feature delinization across the product line. Translated, they have a good code base and they enhance the product slowly, and especially through new models versus software updates. This enables them to drive upgrade performance and finance their R/D business. This is evidenced by the lowest SG&A (percentage wise), in terms of revenue: 8.6%

+ Garmin has a potential for significant product liability. Given the nature of the industry and the civil tort practices that are incumbent with modern aviation, Garmin is at risk for significant product liability claims. They hold 19.0% of revenue on hand as cash for operations. This cash isn't intrinsically a hedge, but a higher position than other firms.

+ Garmin's industry exposes them to a significant inventory impact at any given time. As of 12/30/06, Garmin had approx $271M in inventory within their supply chain, as parts, components, partially assembled products, and completed units. This is a tie-up of revenue dollars.

Anyways, GRMN is a strong company that has significant operational risks and, given their position as market leader, prices products appropriately and recieves a modest return for their overall work. This is a strong indication of a reasonably run company that can continue to compete and deliver into the future. You'll pay a premium for a good product, but one that is supported by a strong company with a strong commitment to what they deliver (from this armchair finance nerd's perspective, at least)

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Maybe we just need an ask Jesse forum.

Hey, that's a great idea! :yes:

-----

Dear Jesse,

My girlfriend wants me to buy her a puppy. What should I do?

-----

Dear Jesse,

My grandpa has an old barn on his farm that he wants me to help him get rid of. I've been thinking of trying to knock it down with an airplane, but I don't want to destroy the airplane. I'm thinking of just trying to nail it with the landing gear a few times. How can I be sure that I don't touch any other parts of the plane? Will the wheel pants be strong enough to knock the barn over? How can I hit the barn without losing too much speed and stalling the plane?

-----

Dear Jesse,

I want to ride my motorcycle a billion miles to see a girl in Mississippi, should I?

-----

Dear Jesse,

I took a friend flying in a 172, and I did a forward slip. He got all freaked out and won't go flying with me any more. I know my airplanes well, and I know that it's OK to slip a 172 even with full flaps, all it does is potentially oscillate in pitch. Besides, the placard says "Avoid," not "Prohibited." My friend is usually a pretty smart guy, and I'd really like to fly with him again. I know we're safe, but he doesn't believe me. Who do you think he will believe?

=====

OK Chuck, it's all on you now. We need an Ask Jesse forum! :D :rofl:
 
I remember reading this in Aviation Week and Space Technology, of course I don't have the old magazine. My memory is known to play tricks at times. Quick google did not find it. I'll keep trying.

Joe

I'd quit looking. I'm awfully certain that it is totally free to the public (and pair for by the same via taxes). I've bought several GPS modules over the years and none ever came with any indication of a service fee.
 
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