got to fly a nice new Skyhawk last night

[woodstock]

well, 2003 - R model - which is new to me. My current one is a 1972 L model.

I'm getting attached to my little bugger but dang that new plane sure was nice. really smooooth. the older one has been down twice in a few weeks - needed a new transponder, now, the breaker for the flaps popped so they have to check that out.

at any rate - first time back in 3 weeks (again?) and we just stayed in the pattern. short field TOs and landings. getting consistently better - my flares are mostly where they need to be instead of too high so my judgment is getting better, also able to play chicken with the ground, without blinking, a little longer (I think part of the reason I used to flare higher is I didn't like seeing the ground coming up at me so fast!).

need to pay better attn to my speed on final though. had to go around once - too high coming in, flaps to 30, and still above 70 (this plane you are supposed to be at 62 on short field landings)

one last thing - the older plane's tail number is easier to say quickly. it's funny how you get into a flow and the number is just part of what you say in one long streak. ha ha

 

[poadeleted20]

need to pay better attn to my speed on final though. had to go around once - too high coming in, flaps to 30, and still above 70 (this plane you are supposed to be at 62 on short field landings)

...and 62 is right only if you're at max gross weight -- with two aboard and part fuel the best short field approach speed is probably around 58. The real key to making good stabilized approaches at the right speed is pitching for the right attitude and controlling touchdown point with power. Learn the right pitch attitude for final approach speed on a normal glide path (AOA and glide angle should be the same, and that means pitch attitude should be the same), pitch for it (should be nearly level or maybe a degree or two nose down), and then see where your impact point is on the runway (point that isn't moving against the windshield). If it's short of your desired aimpoint (which should be about 300-500 feet short of your desired touchdown point due to flare), push the power up to push your touchdown point further down the runway. If it's long, pull the power back to pull hour touchdown point closer.

 

[woodstock]

thanks Ron.

should have mentioned the guy sitting in the back, huh! he was so quiet, he even closed his eyes for one full pattern. he's a fairly new CFI who wanted to sit in. guess I did ok since I didn't scare him.

 

[grattonja]

You need to get a seat in the 172SP. 180 horses. Makes the R seem wimpy by comparison. Fly one of those, with the good avionics, and you may never go back. The 172SP is my regular rental ride.

Jim G

 

[Brian Austin]

You need to get a seat in the 172SP. 180 horses. Makes the R seem wimpy by comparison. Fly one of those, with the good avionics, and you may never go back. The 172SP is my regular rental ride.

Jim G

Mine, too. I like them. Found a trainer that I had my Discovery Flight in with 1600 hrs on it for sale for $145K but decided I've got better things to do with that money...at least this year.

 

[grattonja]

Mine, too. I like them. Found a trainer that I had my Discovery Flight in with 1600 hrs on it for sale for $145K but decided I've got better things to do with that money...at least this year.

I am one of the perverse pilots who actually LIKES renting. I have two skyhawks, an archer and a cutlass readily available. The cutlass, which has had the worst avionics, is about the get a Garmin 430 . Both the 'hawks are SPs, one has the MD550 big screen and one has just the KLN 94. The people I rent from like us, so most of a week away trips are not a hassle. If one plane is down for 100 hour or something bent, I can grab another one. I like that versatility. Feel like getting some landings in by low wing, the archer is a great older ride. Wanna pull a gear handle up, take the cutlass.

Many here will say that owning is the only way to go. Someday, maybe, for me. For now, I am really happy with the people that I rent from. And what I rent. Maybe, if they had a 6 place, like a cherokee 6 or a lance. And a taildragger with aerobatic capability. And... Sigh.

Jim G

 

[woodstock]

Mine, too. I like them. Found a trainer that I had my Discovery Flight in with 1600 hrs on it for sale for $145K but decided I've got better things to do with that money...at least this year.

really? hmmmmm

 

[woodstock]

I am one of the perverse pilots who actually LIKES renting. I have two skyhawks, an archer and a cutlass readily available. The cutlass, which has had the worst avionics, is about the get a Garmin 430 . Both the 'hawks are SPs, one has the MD550 big screen and one has just the KLN 94. The people I rent from like us, so most of a week away trips are not a hassle. If one plane is down for 100 hour or something bent, I can grab another one. I like that versatility. Feel like getting some landings in by low wing, the archer is a great older ride. Wanna pull a gear handle up, take the cutlass.

Many here will say that owning is the only way to go. Someday, maybe, for me. For now, I am really happy with the people that I rent from. And what I rent. Maybe, if they had a 6 place, like a cherokee 6 or a lance. And a taildragger with aerobatic capability. And... Sigh.

Jim G

I like the idea of a club due to the social aspects - and obviously shared costs. having your very own plane doesn't seem like you'd have the opp to share flights quite as much. i.e. when my CFI is finally kicked out of the plane, who will I talk to on the cross countries?

 

[woodstock]

You need to get a seat in the 172SP. 180 horses. Makes the R seem wimpy by comparison. Fly one of those, with the good avionics, and you may never go back. The 172SP is my regular rental ride.

Jim G

oh yes! and the radio! the radio was so much better! I could hear what they were saying a TON better. then again, it's pretty quiet out Leesburg way these days, what with the half-runway and all.

 

[Anthony]

Many here will say that owning is the only way to go. Someday, maybe, for me. For now, I am really happy with the people that I rent from. And what I rent. Maybe, if they had a 6 place, like a cherokee 6 or a lance. And a taildragger with aerobatic capability. And... Sigh.

Jim G

Many here will say that owning is the only way to go because they don't have a rental situation nearly as good as you. Several years ago, I got so frustrated with not being able to get a plane when I wanted or needed it, so I had to make a decision. Either quit flying or buy into a plane or buy a plane myself.

Its great you can fly nice, newer planes with modern avionics. I was faced with an older fleet with unreliable avionics. Even they were always schedueled well in advance on weekends. I looked into partnerships and flying clubs, but never could find the right situation. I just ended up biting the bullet and buying a plane. Yes, its a big risk. You never really know if your going to have to put major dollars into it from the get go, even with a full annual inspection done instead of a pre-purchase. I have been happy with the decision so far, but every once in a while when that big bill comes in, you do have to wonder.

 

[Brian Austin]

I like the idea of a club due to the social aspects - and obviously shared costs. having your very own plane doesn't seem like you'd have the opp to share flights quite as much. i.e. when my CFI is finally kicked out of the plane, who will I talk to on the cross countries?

I want the ability to take a plane up whenever I want, to wherever I want (including non-paved strips) and however I want. I can't do that renting so I'm saving up for a plane.

I take different people up for flights. I haven't flown alone in months and get up every couple of weeks. I've actually got a waiting list.

 

[Bill]

I want the ability to take a plane up whenever I want, to wherever I want (including non-paved strips) and however I want. I can't do that renting so I'm saving up for a plane.

Ditto, AND, I want to do it in a plane I can't rent (Citabria or similar acro taildragger).

 

[grattonja]

Many here will say that owning is the only way to go because they don't have a rental situation nearly as good as you. Several years ago, I got so frustrated with not being able to get a plane when I wanted or needed it, so I had to make a decision. Either quit flying or buy into a plane or buy a plane myself.

Its great you can fly nice, newer planes with modern avionics. I was faced with an older fleet with unreliable avionics. Even they were always schedueled well in advance on weekends. I looked into partnerships and flying clubs, but never could find the right situation. I just ended up biting the bullet and buying a plane. Yes, its a big risk. You never really know if your going to have to put major dollars into it from the get go, even with a full annual inspection done instead of a pre-purchase. I have been happy with the decision so far, but every once in a while when that big bill comes in, you do have to wonder.

And I certainly in no way fault all of you who own. Good on ya! Someday, when I want to go away for a month at a time, I will probably own. Might even be able to sort out high wing vs low wing with my wife by then Probably going to lose that argument. Never marry a lawyer

I agree that we have a pretty good deal with the folks we rent from. Then again, so far they have trained us through a collected list of three ratings, and my wife is working on her IR now. they like us, at least in part, because we have spent sizeable $ at their hangar. And we have not ever rented their cheapest planes. If I had to rent older planes, and pay ground fees etc I would probably be much less positive on the rental experience.

But there is no way that I can afford the kind of performance and avionics that a new 'hawk gives me on what our household makes. And I have been spoiled by digital radios and transponder, and modern, IFR certified, GPS now. And, the Cessna Pilot Center will have to get a new skyhawk soon, and I have been promised that it will have the G-1000 cockpit. Now, if I can just talk them into onboard satellite weather, I will be in pilot hog heaven.

Jim G

 

[poadeleted20]

...so I'm saving up for a plane.

Keep in mind that it's not the buy-in costs, but the long-term expenses that eat you up. For a typical simple, 4-seat, single-engine plane (C-172, Warrior, Cheetah, etc), you have to figure on $7-10K per year to keep and feed the plane while flying 75-100 hours. Right now, that much flying costs $3K for avgas alone! Add on a thousand for insurance, a couple of thousand for maintenance, and a couple-three thousand for storage (T-hangars run $140-600/month depending on location, and even tiedowns run up to $100/month or more), and it adds up right quick. Of course, renting a C-172 75 hours a year runs that much, too.

 

[Brian Austin]

Keep in mind that it's not the buy-in costs, but the long-term expenses that eat you up. For a typical simple, 4-seat, single-engine plane (C-172, Warrior, Cheetah, etc), you have to figure on $7-10K per year to keep and feed the plane while flying 75-100 hours. Right now, that much flying costs $3K for avgas alone! Add on a thousand for insurance, a couple of thousand for maintenance, and a couple-three thousand for storage (T-hangars run $140-600/month depending on location, and even tiedowns run up to $100/month or more), and it adds up right quick. Of course, renting a C-172 75 hours a year runs that much, too.

Already got the spreadsheet set up. I plug in the montly loan costs (if any), insurance and fuel costs, along with estimates on annuals, etc.. I've added an engine and fabric reserve (originally looking at Stinson 108-2/3's) per hour. From there, I've got it set up with comparison costs on five hour increments. It compares my current $104+surcharge hourly rental with estimated hourly costs on the plane (filling it in from the first numbers).

Break even on a Stinson, including engine/fabric reserves, is just over 6 hours per month. If I fly less, I'd be better off renting. More and I'm better off owning (assuming nothing major happens...which it usually will, I know).

 

[Toby]

I like the idea of a club due to the social aspects - and obviously shared costs. having your very own plane doesn't seem like you'd have the opp to share flights quite as much. i.e. when my CFI is finally kicked out of the plane, who will I talk to on the cross countries?

Where I am, owners give each other rides all the time. It's part of the culture. The non-owners like me have to beg.

There's a huge social life attached to being an owner. People hang out and pretend to complain about all the work they have to do on their airplane. If you own, you always have an excuse to come to the airport. Last week I watched a guy unload his lawn mower from the back of a pickup truck and mow the high grass right around his plane. I actually envied him -- and I've always hated to mow!