Got Scammed on “Checkout” flight - Advice?

G

GotScammed

Guest
Hello,

I recently got what appears to be scammed into doing a “checkout” flight in a 172S. I am a commercially rated pilot with 1280hrs and I went up to see my folks this past weekend. I thought it would be nice to rent a plane and go fly around their area for a couple hours. I have over 500hrs in 172’s M-S model’s so I’m no stranger to the type aircraft. The problem was, when I called about renting one of their aircraft, they said the only one available was the most expensive, a 172S with G1000. Whatever I figured that was okay, and then proceeded to tell them my background and how I just wanted to use it for an hour or two, credentials etc. they demanded that I get “checked out” by one of their instructors, even though I probably have more time in that type of airplane than the guy I flew with. Not only did this flight require my demonstration of a few maneuvers, but multiple take off’s and landings to a full stop, so taxing backs etc… I was about to call it quits but figured I’d I have to pay for a flight that they didn’t deem successful so I continued. By the time we were done, we racked up 2.3 hrs and $620 just to get checked out in their plane, by that time I was so fed up I didn’t even fly the ‘hour or two’ flight that I originally set out to do. I will never be back and feel like I got royally taken advantage of.

my question is, are these lame “checkout” flights for the school or the insurance? If I have a lot of time in the make and model, why do I have to go through their dumb checkout in order to fly it? Who’s behind it??
 
What area are you in,on most 172 check out flights they go over the g1000 in the 172. I would think 2.3 hours might be a little excessive. Just my opinion.
 
GotScammed said:
...If I have a lot of time in the make and model, why do I have to go through their dumb checkout in order to fly it? Who’s behind it??
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I understand your frustration but quite simply it's their airplane and their and/or their insurance company's rules. turn the situation around. would you lend/rent your airplane to a complete stranger based solely on his word of experience? I'll agree that 2.3-hrs seems excessive. all of my check-out flights were +/- an hour.
 
I wouldn't loan or rent you my plane without a thorough checkout. Back when I owned my business, I got real tired of new clients saying "do you know who I am?" I finally started answering with "No, but I can help you find out if you'd like".

If you have any gripe, it just MIGHT be that the checkout was a bit extensive. But for all we know, you did not demonstrate sufficient proficiency with the G1000, or in other aspects of the review.
 
I wouldn't lend out my '67 Jaguar without a familiarity check, and it's simpler to manage than an airplane.

waambulance.jpg
 
One of the flight schools/rental places here in the Phoenix Valley demands that you fly/rent from them every 90 days else you go through the same scrutiny as a new customer.

Forget presenting them with a logbook showing your own flights in other/your own aircraft. They don't take that.
 
Back when I was running a flight school with 172s, assuming the pilot was competent, we'd have less than a hour on the hobbs for a rental checkout. Perhaps the instructor wasn't comfortable with how you were handling it? And thought more time was needed...Two sides to all stories and all...
 
EdFred said:
I've had checkout flights in aircraft I had 0 time in model that were 1/2 hour or less. 2.3 is excessive, and yeah, they milked you as a sucker.
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Yeah I agree. Getting a checkout is pretty much protocol across the board. It would be nice if renting a familiar airplane from a flight school was treated the same as renting a car from Hertz, but it’s not. That being said, 2.3 does seem excessive, especially for a 172. Can’t say I’d be too happy about that either, but like mentioned above, there’s two sides to every tale and could very well be a reason for the long check flight.
 
Checkouts seem reasonable.

Considering a PP check ride that covers every single thing in the book can be done in half that, it sure seems not reasonable. But it's not my airplane.
 
It's not reasonable to expect to walk in off the street and expect someone to give you keys to an airplane. In Arizona, I've checked out in 22s with two different places. The first time I asked for a second ride because of the wacky airspace there, so it was a little over 2 hours total. The second time it took to rides too because the guy didn't like my landings, which were all greasers. So I finally said to him " I have no idea what else you want to see, why don't you show me." So he took it around, got it over the runway and dropped it in from about 3 feet. I didn't say a word so he said to me, on the go, "Your controls, last landing, I'll sign you off."

Are they running up hours? Maybe, but I can't blame them for wanting to be sure you won't f up their airplane.
 
TCABM said:
I’d call it buyer’s remorse more than scammed.
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This. You could have asked up front how long the checkout would take and what it would involve.

Excessive? Maybe, I don't know what their insurance requires, or how well you actually performed...

I talked to a place when I was traveling once that required a checkout in each type before rental. So, a check out in a 182 didn't allow you to fly their 152..... and the checkout only lasted 3 months so if you went back annually you'd have to do it again for every model you wanted to fly.

On the other extreme, I checked out in a 172 at one place and we only got half of it done due to bad weather coming in on us. She said we'd have to finish up another time. We headed back home and I landed gently on the centerline of the little 50 foot wide runway after an approach that had the wings rocking back and forth wildly. She said "I'm signing you off. I thought sure I'd have to take over for that landing. If you can do that good in those conditions, you're good to go." She signed me off on the 172 and a Cherokee (and I'd never even been in one before at the time).
 
I have well over 200 hours flying behind G1000. As mentioned, the little 20-some yr old punk CFI probably had less time in the make/model than I did. My problem was more so the fact of feeling like I was getting taken advantage of rather than the checkout itself! I should’ve put a halt to it but I let it go, lesson learned
 
Bob Noel said:
I'm left wondering if the OP didn't perform the tasks quite as perfectly as the OP thinks...
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I performed tasks to commercial standards, this was what I call getting ‘hosed’ and I won’t be back. plus 260 bucks an hour for a 172 is outrageous.
 
EdFred said:
I've had checkout flights in aircraft I had 0 time in model that were 1/2 hour or less. 2.3 is excessive, and yeah, they milked you as a sucker.
Click to expand...
I've had a .2 hour checkout racing to beat a thunderstorm (I owned the same make / model for several years right up to about a month before the checkout), and I've had the 2 hour checkout that I called quits before the instructor because he was so full of she-ight I couldn't take it anymore. But unlike the OP, I didn't complain on the internet when that happened (nor did I assume I got "scammed", just that the CFI was a bozo). I just went to another FBO, got a .5 hour checkout (in the same make / model as the 2 hour unsuccessful checkout), and carried on.
 
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I like to fly some GA when I travel, too. Though I'm a far less experienced pilot, I've learned to skip the whole 'checkout flight' thing and just book an hour or two of dual.
Ninety percent of the time, the instructor is fine and I explain I know how to fly (a C172) but don't know the area so I'm looking for a safety pilot and local expert.
I try to get an older CFI who's more mellow and knows the area. I've had some great flights, learned a ton about local sights and airspace, and met some cool CFIs.
And especially in Hawaii, it was great to have someone who knew how to correctly pronounce everything!
 
Country Flier said:
I've had a .2 hour checkout racing to beat a thunderstorm (I owned the same make / model for several years right up to about a month before the checkout), and I've had the 2 hour checkout that I called quits before the instructor because he was so full of she-ight I couldn't take it anymore. But unlike the OP, I didn't complain on the internet when that happened (nor did I assume I got "scammed", just that the CFI was a bozo). I just went to another FBO, got a .5 hour checkout (in the same make / model as the 2 hour unsuccessful checkout), and carried on.
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It would be nice for future aviators for those of you that had bad experience with a FBO named them.
 
Gotscammed said:
I performed tasks to commercial standards, this was what I call getting ‘hosed’ and I won’t be back. plus 260 bucks an hour for a 172 is outrageous.
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G1000-equipped 172s are not much less than that where I rent. Of course, prices vary in different areas, and I'm in one of the most expensive areas in the country.
 
Palmpilot said:
G1000-equipped 172s are not much less than that where I rent. Of course, prices vary in different areas, and I'm in one of the most expensive areas in the country.
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Either the CFI charged $9.56/hour or OP's math skills are questionable.
 
2.3 hours seems excessive to me. I've never had a checkout flight that took much more than an hour.
 
I fly with a 430w and now avidyne550 and I bet it would take me better part of 2 hours to get acquainted with a g1000.
 
GotScammed said:
Hello,

I recently got what appears to be scammed into doing a “checkout” flight in a 172S. I am a commercially rated pilot with 1280hrs and I went up to see my folks this past weekend. I thought it would be nice to rent a plane and go fly around their area for a couple hours. I have over 500hrs in 172’s M-S model’s so I’m no stranger to the type aircraft. The problem was, when I called about renting one of their aircraft, they said the only one available was the most expensive, a 172S with G1000. Whatever I figured that was okay, and then proceeded to tell them my background and how I just wanted to use it for an hour or two, credentials etc. they demanded that I get “checked out” by one of their instructors, even though I probably have more time in that type of airplane than the guy I flew with. Not only did this flight require my demonstration of a few maneuvers, but multiple take off’s and landings to a full stop, so taxing backs etc… I was about to call it quits but figured I’d I have to pay for a flight that they didn’t deem successful so I continued. By the time we were done, we racked up 2.3 hrs and $620 just to get checked out in their plane, by that time I was so fed up I didn’t even fly the ‘hour or two’ flight that I originally set out to do. I will never be back and feel like I got royally taken advantage of.

my question is, are these lame “checkout” flights for the school or the insurance? If I have a lot of time in the make and model, why do I have to go through their dumb checkout in order to fly it? Who’s behind it??
Click to expand...


There is checkout, and then there is training. In fact, in the first 5 minutes during taxi I can usually tell how the rest of the flight was going to go. After a couple of landings, I can make a fairly conclusive determination. At that point, I will tell the pilot what I think, and give him or her the option to end the flight or continue with "training". It sounds to me like there was a breakdown in communication between you and the check pilot.
 
Gotscammed said:
I have well over 200 hours flying behind G1000. As mentioned, the little 20-some yr old punk CFI probably had less time in the make/model than I did. My problem was more so the fact of feeling like I was getting taken advantage of rather than the checkout itself! I should’ve put a halt to it but I let it go, lesson learned
Click to expand...

Curious, what made the CFI such a “punk”?
 
All FBOs where I've rented required a checkout flight. I can't remember exactly, but it's generally about an hour - kind of like a flight review without the ground. One of the FBOs had a G1000 172, and it was expensive. It also required, in addition to the flying checkout, at least an hour on the ground and another hour of instruction in the air. So 2.3 in a G1000 172 I don't think is unheard of. It may be overkill, but they don't know you.
 
benyflyguy said:
I fly with a 430w and now avidyne550 and I bet it would take me better part of 2 hours to get acquainted with a g1000.
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Based on the process I went through in learning it, I would say that it depends on what you want to do with it.
 
Like one of the others said ... I'd have just said I wanted 1-2 hours dual with a CFI and flown the flight you intended to do solo ... skip the check out, or better yet turn it into a BFR.
 
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