Got “thrown out” of an airport today

[UngaWunga]

I say 10 pages. At least 10 pages.

 

[Salty]

No one. And I repeat. No one in this thread has defended it.

Still gonna hold to that claim?

I’ve just done more than 172 burger flying

To me hotloading is not that scary, I also understand how most all yaks use a limited supply of air, normally a scuba tank to start, as do many pilots who fly more interesting planes.

If I walked by that scene, and I would have been a respectful distance away, my thought would have been pretty yak and lucky pax are going to have a great time

 

[SkyChaser]

I’ve just done more than 172 burger flying

To me hotloading is not that scary, I also understand how most all yaks use a limited supply of air, normally a scuba tank to start, as do many pilots who fly more interesting planes.

If I walked by that scene, and I would have been a respectful distance away, my thought would have been pretty yak and lucky pax are going to have a great time

I never said that hotloading was always a bad idea. It is always dangerous, but there are ways to make it safer and places that it belongs. This is NOT one of them. If Yaks use that sort of system, maybe don't take multiple passengers up in a row if you're unwilling to use up that bottle. Do you have any clue how dangerous hotloading is around people who are not briefed and trained for it? This wasn't some sort of time sensitive mission. It was a sightseeing flight, not a medical emergency or a military war zone. There's a time and a place for just about everything, including hotloading, but a crowded ramp is not the time or place.

I, too, would have thought "pretty Yak", but if the pilot kills one of them by being too cheap to use up part of his scuba tank starting system to keep the pax safe, they won't feel lucky.

Are you the airport manager/owner, the pilot, or the airport employee?

 

[TampaPilot]

Also on a yak the throttle and fuel cutoff are on the left side, right by the crew member who was helping load the pax, as I recall the controls even need to be set to neutral in the front for them to even be active in the back, again this is not like the 172 and PA28s most of you fly

The risk factor was pretty small until cellphone injected himself into it

 

[SkyChaser]

Also on a yak the throttle and fuel cutoff are on the left side, right by the crew member who was helping load the pax, as I recall the controls even need to be set to neutral in the front for them to even be active in the back

The risk factor was very very minimal until cellphone injected himself into it

You have scarily little respect for airplanes and the damage they cause. I would really love to know which one of the three you are. It would be fascinating to put that against your posts on here.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

Still gonna hold to that claim?

Nope

 

[TampaPilot]

You have scarily little respect for airplanes and the damage they cause.

I have tons, I also have enough experience to know what is and isn’t a big deal

The situation clearly became much less safe when Greg decided to walk around a running plane with his head down in his phone, the reactions of EVERY PERSON there reflected this

Sure it would have been safer to have the plane off, even safer to remove the propellor and all fuel and disconnect the battery and air before loading from a OSHA approved ladder, most safe thing would be just not to fly GA if you really want to go “safety first”

 

[Salty]

hotload

I have tons, I also have enough experience to know what is and isn’t a big deal

The situation clearly became much less safe when Greg decided to walk around a running plane with his head down in his phone, the reactions of EVERY PERSON there reflected this

Including the ones that moved off the ramp when they heard me yell the warning? You don't see them on the video because they moved. You also don't see the couple with the baby in the carriage that was on the bottom of the stairs - the stairs you see at the end of the video where the man with the white beard and blue flannel shirt is standing - because I warned them of what was occurring.

 

[SkyChaser]

I have tons, I also have enough experience to know what is and isn’t a big deal

The situation clearly became much less safe when Greg decided to walk around a running plane with his head down in his phone, the reactions of EVERY PERSON there reflected this

You mean, the reactions of you and the pilot or you and the airport employee? Or are you the owner who listened to your employee create a situation where he had to be the hero because some guy, who turns out to be a pilot and who actually understands the risks of having an unsecured and running airplane on the ramp with people around, rightfully freaked out and ended up having to take a video because no one would listen?

 

[TampaPilot]

hotload

Including the ones that moved off the ramp when they heard me yell the warning? You don't see them on the video because they moved. You also don't see the couple with the baby in the carriage that was on the bottom of the stairs, the stairs you see at the end of the video - because I warned them of what was occurring.

Now there was also a baby in a carriage, let me guess it was slowly rolling towards the prop and even have one wheel that squeaked? lol

Of course that also didn’t make the video

 

[TampaPilot]

Why is it always the low time private pilots who preach the loudest about what is right and wrong, safe and unsafe and how to do things

Not always, but 9.9 times out of 10

 

[Salty]

Now there was also a baby in a carriage, let me guess it was slowly rolling towards the prop and even have one wheel that squeaked? lol

Of course that also didn’t make the video

You are the one that keeps bringing up how people were impacted by my actions. I frankly had forgotten all about that until you brought the reactions up again. There were a lot more people around the stairs until I pointed out the danger that was present.

 

[TCABM]

Interesting all the different perspectives, perceptions, and prejudices on display here.

 

[SkyChaser]

Now there was also a baby in a carriage, let me guess it was slowly rolling towards the prop and even have one wheel that squeaked? lol

Of course that also didn’t make the video

No. He specified it had a couple with it. That's a really dumb thing to say.

Why is it always the low time private pilots who preach the loudest about what is right and wrong, safe and unsafe and how to do things

Not always, but 9.9 times out of 10

Because we still understand what is actually dangerous for untrained people to do? These aren't soldiers or other pilots or trained anybody. These are untrained, unaware people. Not everyone knows to stay away from an airplane, especially when there's so many people already allowed to be clustered around.

 

[TampaPilot]

You mean, the reactions of you and the pilot or you and the airport employee? Or are you the owner who listened to your employee create a situation where he had to be the hero because some guy, who turns out to be a pilot and who actually understands the risks of having an unsecured and running airplane on the ramp with people around, rightfully freaked out and ended up having to take a video because no one would listen?

As I said, I am not affiliated with anyone in that video

The only thing I would have done different would have been to grab cell phone guy sooner if he saw him, or maybe if you wanted to be belt and suspenders airport worker could have offered to stand around and pull chalks for him

However most experienced pilots wouldn’t have thought much about that whole scene one way or another, and I know of none who would have done what Greg did

And let’s be real, he wasn’t looking for “safety” half as much as he was looking for attention

The proof is in the pudding

 

[TampaPilot]

-snip- These are untrained, unaware people. Not everyone knows to stay away from an airplane, especially when there's so many people already allowed to be clustered around.

Like Greg?

 

[EdFred]

Interesting all the different perspectives, perceptions, and prejudices on display here.

Especially from people who weren't there, but know exactly what happened.

 

[EdFred]

Like Greg?

At what point in the video was he directly in front of a spinning hunk of metal?

 

[nauga]

Interesting all the different perspectives, perceptions, and prejudices on display here.

Definitely. I know I'd be pretty nervous with someone "rightfully freaked out" around my airplane.

Nauga,
riotous or righteous?

 

[SkyChaser]

Like Greg?

Nope. He's a pilot. He's trained. He knows where not to walk, or we would be reading his obituary right now. I consider myself trained, too, because I have been taught about prop safety and the dangers of it. If I or Greg walked into a prop, we'd just be an idiot.

I'm talking about the actual untrained public that you may pretend weren't there but were.

 

[TCABM]

As I said, I am not affiliated with anyone in that video…

Q: Did you witness in real time anything that occurred on the video? In short, were you there when it happened?
Q: How did you learn about the video?
Q: Why did you join this forum? Hint, the forum recorded your join date and time.

 

[SkyChaser]

Definitely. I know I'd be pretty nervous with someone "rightfully freaked out" around my airplane.

Nauga,
riotous or righteous?

Heck, so would I. That's why I actually care about who and what is going on around my airplane and don't do dumb stuff like hotloading in a place where I don't know or can't control all the actions of the people around me.

 

[TampaPilot]

Q: Did you witness in real time anything that occurred on the video? In short, were you there when it happened?
Q: How did you learn about the video?
Q: Why did you join this forum? Hint, the forum recorded your join date and time.

Going off what I saw in the video

And I already answered those questions

 

[UngaWunga]

The situation clearly became much less safe when Greg decided to walk around a running plane with his head down in his phone, the reactions of EVERY PERSON there reflected this

Why are you injecting things that didn't happen to the discussion? You're making it sound like he was doing backflips around a running airplane blindfolded. The video only shows him walking behind the aircraft from the right wing tip.

 

[Salty]

Why are you injecting things that didn't happen to the discussion? You're making it sound like he was doing backflips around a running airplane blindfolded. The video only shows him walking behind the aircraft from the right wing tip.

There were bystanders between me and the plane in the video for crying out loud.

 

[UngaWunga]

I say 10 pages. At least 10 pages.

I'll up my estimate to 12 page before religion/politics/etc comments are made and the thread is locked.

 

[MauleSkinner]

If I walked by that scene, and I would have been a respectful distance away, my thought would have been pretty yak and lucky pax are going to have a great time

It’s all fun until somebody loses an eye…or an arm, or a head, or…

 

[Half Fast]

As I said, I am not affiliated with anyone in that video

Then why would someone text you about this thread? And why would you immediately join POA for the purpose of responding to it?

I’m not buying it. You are an interested / involved party in some way that you’re unwilling to disclose.

At the moment you have zero credibility. You’ve dug yourself into a deep hole, and my advice is to put down the shovel.

 

[TampaPilot]

Nope. He's a pilot. He's trained. He knows where not to walk, or we would be reading his obituary right now. I consider myself trained, too, because I have been taught about prop safety and the dangers of it. If I or Greg walked into a prop, we'd just be an idiot.

I'm talking about the actual untrained public that you may pretend weren't there but were.

Not trained very well based off the video of his actions

Being at best a distraction to a crew hot loading a plane, even the spectators by the parked planes knew not to get that close

Greg looked like enough of a safety issue that worker darted out and escorted him off the entire airport

 

[TampaPilot]

Then why would someone text you about this thread? And why would you immediately join POA for the purpose of responding to it?

I’m not buying it. You are an interested / involved party in some way that you’re unwilling to disclose.

At the moment you have zero credibility. You’ve dug yourself into a deep hole, and my advice is to put down the shovel.

Because aviation is a small community, especially in northern FL, and when someone goes all
Karen to the point they get kicked off a airport while trying to cause issues for a pilot trying to give airplane rides, it gets noticed, and unlike Greg I like to speak up to the actual person I view as a problem

 

[Salty]

Greg looked like enough of a safety issue that worker darted out and escorted him off the entire airport

Incorrect. The worker continued to stand in front of the spinning propellor and "protect everyone". I did not leave until the airport owner came back so I could speak to him about the situation.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Greg looked like enough of a safety issue that worker darted out and escorted him off the entire airport

So you’re saying they didn’t have enough control over the ramp area for an airplane to be running with no one at the controls.

 

[nauga]

Heck, so would I. That's why I actually care about who and what is going on around my airplane and don't do dumb stuff like hotloading in a place where I don't know or can't control all the actions of the people around me.

So if you knew people were working around an airplane and saw someone you didn't know 'freaking out' and approaching that airplane would you let the freaker continue? I realize you weren't there and might not be describing it as it actually occurred, I'm just trying to understand the situation as you've laid it out.

Nauga,
pulling a thread

 

[Lindberg]

As I said, I am not affiliated with anyone in that video

For someone so unaffiliated, you seem to have an unusual interest in trying to intimidate Salty. Since you seen to know a lot about this operation, maybe you can help out the FSDO when they call, since their attention has now been directed to this video, and you may need to fill in the blanks for them.

 

[SkyChaser]

Not trained very well based off the video of his actions

Being at best a distraction to a crew hot loading a plane, even the spectators by the parked planes knew not to get that close

Greg looked like enough of a safety issue that worker darted out and escorted him off the entire airport

Unless you admit that you were there, and you saw Salty doing things that he has repeatedly said that he was not doing, and that are not supported by what we saw in the above video you claim to be basing everything on, your story is stupid. I'm sorry, but it is freaking stupid. Why would a worker escort Salty, who is walking around the airplane, but staying away from the prop, away, if the people beside the plane are allowed to be there, and the other people on the ramp are allowed to be there, and the guy with the leg brace was allowed to be there? Make your story make sense, please, because it doesn't.

Either hotloading is not a safety issue, and Salty should not have been escorted off the airport, or hotloading is a safety issue and should not be done on an unsecured ramp. Make up your mind.

 

[SkyChaser]

So if you knew people were working around an airplane and saw someone you didn't know 'freaking out' and approaching that airplane would you let the freaker continue? I realize you weren't there and might not be describing it as it actually occurred, I'm just trying to understand the situation as you've laid it out.

Nauga,
pulling a thread

What I would have done in that case, if I was so stupid as to allow my airplane to run, unsecured and uncontrolled, on a ramp where someone could come up to it like that, is listen to him. That is the easiest way to calm a freaker down. You listen to their concerns. Then I would have told them that I was happy to talk to the airport manager or FSDO with them about this (if I didn't think their concerns were valid) and even let him take a picture or video of my tail number or whatever would make him feel like he had sufficient evidence/proof, or stop doing what I'm doing (if I think the complaints are valid). It's not that hard.

 

[Half Fast]

Because aviation is a small community, especially in northern FL, and when someone goes all
Karen to the point they get kicked off a airport while trying to cause issues for a pilot trying to give airplane rides, it gets noticed, and unlike Greg I like to speak up to the actual person I view as a problem

Baloney.

Why you? Why did someone decide to text you in particular? And why do you care?

From what he posted, it appears to me that @Salty spoke to the people he viewed as a problem. You, on the other hand, have yet to admit that not having someone at the controls with the engine running is unsafe.

You’re doing a lot of pontificating and arm waving and implying that you have much experience, but what you write makes little sense and does not follow from the facts as stated. Despite your claims of vast aviation knowledge, you really don’t seem to know what you’re talking about, and you have robbed yourself of any credibility.

 

[nauga]

What I would have done in that case, if I was so stupid as to allow my airplane to run, unsecured and uncontrolled, on a ramp where someone could come up to it like that, is listen to him. That is the easiest way to calm a freaker down. You listen to their concerns.

So you would allow him to further distract you from what you have already described as a dangerous task.

It's not that hard.

I agree, and yet we disagree on whether or not Salty's actions were appropriate. Am I stupid as well?

Nauga,
and his secret ballot

 

[Salty]

So if you knew people were working around an airplane and saw someone you didn't know 'freaking out' and approaching that airplane would you let the freaker continue? I realize you weren't there and might not be describing it as it actually occurred, I'm just trying to understand the situation as you've laid it out.

Nauga,
pulling a thread

I'm sorry, but you aren't making much more sense than TampaPilot. You know, the guy that keeps doxxing me but has remained anonymous?

These folks in the bottom left were way closer to the plane than I was. Why aren't you concerned about them? They don't seem to be concerned about me. In the second photo included the best shot of the pilots face I got. He never even noticed me. Why is my taking a video further away than other bystanders, that clearly isn't distracting the folks performing the operation an issue to you?

 

[GaryM]

I think Salty's concern was warranted, and he was appropriate to call out what he saw as unsafe behavior.

I see parallels to three other areas where I'm active, all requiring a strong safety culture. Competitive shooting, shooting commercial firework shows, and technical diving. One of the unbreakable rules for all is that ANYONE (it doesn't have to be a participant) can call a cease-fire (or call the dive) at ANY time for ANY reason. That results in an immediate safety stand down, to assess if there was a risk, if it can be (or already was) remediated, and if it is safe for the activity to resume. More often than not, the assessment and remediation is completed very quickly, and the activity can restart. Well, maybe not so much for the dives, but being a alive to try again another day is still considered a win.

And the person calling for the activity to stop is not taken to task later if they made the wrong call. Because that isn't how you build a safety culture.