Got “thrown out” of an airport today

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Pinecone said:
Except in an RV you are not flying a warbird. And warbirds get invited to air shows, get to fly in the show, get free gas, oil, and smoke oil (if pilot Comm and Class II), and get free meals and a free room.
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That's the allure?
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I was being rhetorical btw; I fully understand the dynamic, it's just hard to convey ironic inflection in written format.
 
Can we all agree that the correct reaction was to shoot out the engine with the sawed off that we all open carry?

and any student pilots reading poa, ignore everything you read on this forum. Listen to your CFI because there is no way any student pilot is going to be able to determine which info is correct and which is just trash.
 
NoBShere said:
Can we all agree that the correct reaction was to shoot out the engine with the sawed off that we all open carry?

and any student pilots reading poa, ignore everything you read on this forum. Listen to your CFI because there is no way any student pilot is going to be able to determine which info is correct and which is just trash.
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LOL true, but also true of a lot of CFI's.
 
donjohnston said:
Moot or not, all experimental aircraft require a program letter.
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In my opinion based on my experience with our local Flight Standards District Office; only Experimental Exhibition aircraft require a program letter.

It appears to me my experimental Amateur Built aircraft does not require a program letter.
 
donjohnston said:
Moot or not, all experimental aircraft require a program letter.
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Not all, only EE, and I mentioned they were required for EE but since they are effectively irrelevant in reality, my point was that there will be no violations handed down based on a "deviation" from the program letter.
 
Some here have obviously never raised children.

Small kids will often do the unexpected, like run from the parents, in any old direction, and will not stop when the parents shout at it. Kids get killed that way, by dashing out in front of cars on the street. Anywhere near a running airplane is no place for any kid, especially small, undisciplined kids.

Or dogs, for that matter.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Some here have obviously never raised children.

Small kids will often do the unexpected, like run from the parents, in any old direction, and will not stop when the parents shout at it. Kids get killed that way, by dashing out in front of cars on the street. Anywhere near a running airplane is no place for any kid, especially small, undisciplined kids.

Or dogs, for that matter.
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Oh 100pct. But to the reductio ad absurdum crowd, that is just price of fre'-duhm don't ya know?

We know it's a logical fallacy born out of bad faith (libertarianism has nothing to do with any of this, that's just erroneous appropriation). In many instances, merely borne out of passive-aggressive misopedia, and/or schadenfreude against parents for attempting to encroach on "adults only" hobbies, as viewed by said suspects. The Hangar Hotel in T82 is one of many examples of this undercurrent manifestation.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Some here have obviously never raised children.

Small kids will often do the unexpected, like run from the parents, in any old direction, and will not stop when the parents shout at it. Kids get killed that way, by dashing out in front of cars on the street. Anywhere near a running airplane is no place for any kid, especially small, undisciplined kids.

Or dogs, for that matter.
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Great point. When my son was about 3, I was trying to get him in my truck after a purchase at a local fire supply place next to a busy road. I briefly lost grip on his hand while setting the item (fire extinguisher, ironically for the plane) on the seat so I could load him. In that instant, he tore off around the rear of the truck and right into the road. I ended up barely grasping his coat enough to pull him back from the near lane.

Scared the heck out of me. I don’t believe he ever even realized the peril he had put himself in.
 
When the dust settles I think all parties will look back and realize they could have handled their part differently.
The pilot and marshal hopefully will look back objectively and see there is room for improvement safety.
Salty was good intentioned but probably acted with some emotion. I think a lot of us witnessing the scene in real time would get a bit triggered seeing hot loading a plane with no one at controls with bystanders around.
 
I mean, even passively motioning to or offering a set of chocks/blocks for the marshaller to place in front of the mains, would have gone a long way to agree in good faith to the safety piece. Certainly a less combative approach, especially if the owner is a "get off my lawn" type who reflexively displays hostility towards strangers in any public verbal exchange. Now, if the barnstormer in question were to also angrily refuse such a neutral offer, that's certainly indicative of a larger personality issue. That would have me and mine grabbing our s**t and darting away and behind from that putrid diaper of a ground operation at a 60 degree angle. I'd holler at whoever appeared to be carrying kiddos, to physically hold on to them as I pointed at the unoccupied cockpit, but they'll be seeing the rapidly shrinking back of my head as I said it :D
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hindsight2020 said:
I mean, even passively motioning to or offering a set of chocks/blocks for the marshaller to place in front of the mains, would have gone a long way to agree in good faith to the safety piece. Certainly a less combative approach, especially if the owner is a "get off my lawn" type who reflexively displays hostility towards strangers in any public verbal exchange. Now, if the barnstormer in question were to also angrily refuse such a neutral offer, that's certainly indicative of a larger personality issue. That would have me and mine grabbing our s**t and darting away and behind from that putrid diaper of a ground operation at a 60 degree angle. I'd holler at whoever appeared to be carrying kiddos, to physically hold on to them as I pointed at the unoccupied cockpit, but they'll be seeing the rapidly shrinking back of my head as I said it :D
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Sounds great. But from my vantage, there was no marshaller, just an injured bystander. My immediate reaction was to get the poor guy from 10 feet in front of the aircraft to a safe spot. After he yelled at me that he was "protecting" I totally admit I was shell shocked. So I grabbed some footage as I got out of the way and stayed that way until the owner came back.....
 
NoBShere said:
Can we all agree that the correct reaction was to shoot out the engine with the sawed off that we all open carry?

and any student pilots reading poa, ignore everything you read on this forum. Listen to your CFI because there is no way any student pilot is going to be able to determine which info is correct and which is just trash.
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if you are open carrying in florida, you had better have a fishing pole in the other hand and a valid fishing license. fishing and hunting are the only time open carry is allowed. i alwas carry my ronco pocket fisherman with me!
 
RoscoeT said:
Not all, only EE, and I mentioned they were required for EE but since they are effectively irrelevant in reality, my point was that there will be no violations handed down based on a "deviation" from the program letter.
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Not according to AC 20-27G:

11. Applying for Certification of an Amateur-Built Aircraft. Submit the following documents and information to your local FAA MIDO/FSDO. You can get all the forms you need from your local FAA office.
a. FAA Form 8130-6 (see Appendix 6 to this AC).
b. AC Form 8050-3 (AFS-750 will return this form to you, which you in turn will show to the FAA inspector at the time the aircraft is inspected).
c. Sufficient information to identify the aircraft, such as photographs or three-view drawings.
d. A notarized FAA Form 8130-12 certifying that the major portion of the aircraft was fabricated and assembled for your own education or recreation, and that you have evidence, such as a builder’s log or its equivalent, to support this statement (see Appendix 12 to this AC). 22
e. A program letter in accordance with § 21.193, Experimental certificates: General (see Appendix 13 to this AC). With the information in this letter, we can prescribe the limitations and conditions necessary to ensure safety. The program letter should—
(1) Identify the aircraft (using photographs, for example).
(2) Identify the purpose of the certificate (that is, operating an amateur-built aircraft).
(3) Describe a flight test program that addresses the requirements, goals, and objectives during flight testing, including the area over which you intend to do your flight tests (see paragraph 14).​

Appendix 13 has a sample program letter.
 
donjohnston said:
Not according to AC 20-27G:

11. Applying for Certification of an Amateur-Built Aircraft. Submit the following documents and information to your local FAA MIDO/FSDO. You can get all the forms you need from your local FAA office.
a. FAA Form 8130-6 (see Appendix 6 to this AC).
b. AC Form 8050-3 (AFS-750 will return this form to you, which you in turn will show to the FAA inspector at the time the aircraft is inspected).
c. Sufficient information to identify the aircraft, such as photographs or three-view drawings.
d. A notarized FAA Form 8130-12 certifying that the major portion of the aircraft was fabricated and assembled for your own education or recreation, and that you have evidence, such as a builder’s log or its equivalent, to support this statement (see Appendix 12 to this AC). 22
e. A program letter in accordance with § 21.193, Experimental certificates: General (see Appendix 13 to this AC). With the information in this letter, we can prescribe the limitations and conditions necessary to ensure safety. The program letter should—
(1) Identify the aircraft (using photographs, for example).
(2) Identify the purpose of the certificate (that is, operating an amateur-built aircraft).
(3) Describe a flight test program that addresses the requirements, goals, and objectives during flight testing, including the area over which you intend to do your flight tests (see paragraph 14).​

Appendix 13 has a sample program letter.
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I think, but could be wrong, that major difference for program letters is that for E-AB submission it is one and done while the other experimental categories it’s an annual requirement.
 
Jeez, I needed a good thread to get me sleepy. I’m in the club of mind your own business on this one. “If” this and “but” that. Stay in your own lane. Taking and posting video is beyond unreasonable. If you have ever went over the speed limit, or rolled a stop sign then you’ve broken more laws than witnessed in the video. Sheesh.
 
tsts4 said:
I think, but could be wrong, that major difference for program letters is that for E-AB submission it is one and done while the other experimental categories it’s an annual requirement.
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That is correct. The program letter is only required for the airworthiness inspection by the FAA or DAR.
 
catmandu said:
The Yak is an experimental, as denoted by the "X-ray" in the tail number. It does have a parking brake, so at least idle thrust is accounted for. Nice paint job!
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note: X-ray in the tail number has nothing to do with being an experimental.
 
eman1200 said:
meh


also, I want that plane. otherwise, not enough to get me to like and subscribe. you want REAL drama u gotta watch monkey's channel.
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I too subscribe to the "not my circus, not my monkeys" school of thought.
 
wilkersk said:
What about 14CFR 45.22(b)(1)(ii) ?
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Interesting. I’ve had 2 certified planes with an X and one EAB without. I guess exhibition aircraft can be different, I learned something.
 
jbarrass said:
Interesting. I’ve had 2 certified planes with an X and one EAB without. I guess exhibition aircraft can be different, I learned something.
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Neither of the two aircraft involved in the midair in Dallas had an "X" in their N-numbers. I would think that those would be exhibition category.
 
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/forming_nnumber
  • The FAA no longer issues numbers beginning with NC, NX, NR, or NL. On some older aircraft, these numbers may be displayed in accordance with FAR Part 45.22.
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https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/45.22
(ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft (“C”, standard; “R”, restricted; “L”, limited; or “X”, experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft;
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Ha, that would get another thrown out of airport thread started for certain.
I’m guessing multiple unsafe pilot threads as well.
 
Salty said:
According to my logbook, I've average a stop there once a month for the last 5 years.
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What's bizarre is being such a frequent visitor and patron, and still, they don't seem to know who you are. Very odd. Goes with the general sense that they don't pay much attention to what's going on. Whatever else figures into this, as an informed non-pilot, I can't get away from engine-running-nobody-at-controls, and people pretty close to the plane.
 
Ahh Florida. Every time I see something too stupid to have happened happen it's in Florida.

Guy loads fake warbird running, and gets out of the cockpit (while running) to sort out passengers, Florida. Does this with a gaggle of unauthorized folks nearby. Florida. Unmarked untrained marshaller inches from the spinning prop. Florida.

But the kicker is folks coming in to defend all this.

Ahh Florida.
 
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