Google Cars Drive Themselves

RJM62

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Geek on the Hill
Interesting article in the NY Times about Google's autonomous cars, which apparently have come closer than any others to being able to drive themselves:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/10/science/10google.html

Several things about this fascinate me. For one, autopilot devices, in some form or another, have existed for aircraft for almost a century, since Sperry corporation invented the first one in 1912. That device was primitive by modern standards, but it did allow the aircraft to fly straight and level. Today's most advanced aircraft autopilots can practically complete an entire flight by themselves.

And yet, until recently, no one has been able to build an autopilot that can drive a car, even on roads with no traffic. Google's entry is one of the few that seems capable of doing so consistently, and one of even fewer that are capable of negotiating traffic.

This makes me wonder about how complex human thought really is, and how difficult it is for machines to do what we do so almost naturally.

I suspect that human thought is hard for machines to simulate for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that we don't always make logical decisions. Driving, then, becomes the collective actions of a whole bunch of people, none of whose actions can be predicted with absolute precision, trying to do so anyway in order to avoid collisions while reaching their destinations. Viewed in this context, it's a miracle is that most trips are accident-free.

Personally, I find driving to be more physically and mentally challenging, to require more attention, to demand faster reflexes and responses, and to be less forgiving of any errors or even momentary inattention, than any flying I've ever done. True, I live in a major metropolitan area. During periods of my life when I lived in the sticks, driving was easy. Here, it's not, especially when the traffic is actually moving. (It doesn't take much skill to sit still in a traffic jam.)

An engineer friend of mine once suggested that driving in city traffic demands more decisions than we can consciously enumerate. To test his idea, we drove from Queens to Connecticut and back (I had to pick something up in Stamford, anyway), me driving there, and him driving back. While driving, we attempted to verbalize everything we were doing, including things like glancing at other cars to try to predict what their drivers would do next, factoring the distance and speed of a car behind us in the adjacent lane when making lane changes, glancing at the instruments, navigating, and so forth.

You know what? He was right. It was impossible to verbalize, much less keep track of, all of the decisions we had to make during a relatively routine driving trip. We make them, act on them, and almost immediately forget all about them. It's actually quite amazing. Try it some time.

Okay, I'm rambling. There's no real point to this post. I just thought the article was interesting, and it got me thinking about driving compared to flying.

-Rich
 
In the air there's not much to bump into. On the ground it's a much more hazard avoidance mess.
If they're having a hard time staying on the road and dealing with the predictable stuff like roads and moving vehicles, imagine avoiding the kid chasing a soccer ball out into the street, water vs black ice, or identify that undefinable instinct that causes you to slam on the brakes without knowing why then seeing a deer on the edge of the road. How do you program undefinable instinctive behavior into a computer?

Way back in college I talked to a guy that put together a set of sensors and stepper motors and wired it all into an Apple II computer game port (input) and parallel output (printer port). He got his clunker car to reliably follow the white road edge stripe marking at night. He said just about the time he became confident it worked reliably as long as the stripe was there, it tried to take an off ramp at 55mph because it was doing exactly what it was told to do. The last I heard he was working on software to use the intermittent lane divider stripe as a secondary check for road direction.
 
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I talked to someone involved with MIT's auto DARPA car, not easy to make them drive themselves. Measured by decisions per second driving is a lot harder than flying. I guess when we call airline pilots bus drivers we are really insulting the bus drivers.
 
One can learn to drive a car in most traffic a lot easier then one can learn to successfully fly an airplane. I don't remember there ever being anything difficult about learning to drive nor did it take more then a few moments to really pick up. Flying was a lot more of a challenge.

It's not really that driving is *harder* per say - as much as there are a hell of a lot of variables that can't be easily accounted for by machine. Aviation's variables once in the air are easily measured and accounted for which makes programming an autopilot relatively easy. If they had to worry about avoiding a stroller rolling between clouds at FL320 then things would be different.
 
One can learn to drive a car in most traffic a lot easier then one can learn to successfully fly an airplane. I don't remember there ever being anything difficult about learning to drive nor did it take more then a few moments to really pick up. Flying was a lot more of a challenge.

It's not really that driving is *harder* per say - as much as there are a hell of a lot of variables that can't be easily accounted for by machine. Aviation's variables once in the air are easily measured and accounted for which makes programming an autopilot relatively easy. If they had to worry about avoiding a stroller rolling between clouds at FL320 then things would be different.

Touching upon your learning point, I think you have to remember that humans don't fly by nature. Walking, riding a bicycle, and driving are all primarily two-dimensional activities, so by the time an average person learns to drive, they already have 15 or more years of experience successfully navigating the two-dimensional world, including a decade or so navigating it on two wheels. So learning to drive isn't so much learning a new skill set as it is building upon an existing skill set.

Flying, however adds the third dimension of altitude, for which humans have no natural aptitude, nor in which dimension we possess any experience prior to learning to fly. Controlling how high we are, how quickly we get there, how quickly we get down from there, and so forth are completely new skills.

-Rich
 
One can learn to drive a car in most traffic a lot easier then one can learn to successfully fly an airplane. I don't remember there ever being anything difficult about learning to drive nor did it take more then a few moments to really pick up. Flying was a lot more of a challenge.


You haven't driven the FDR Drive, the LIE, or the Cross Bronx Expressway, have you?

:wink2:
 
You haven't driven the FDR Drive, the LIE, or the Cross Bronx Expressway, have you?

:wink2:

Not for beginners... especially at night, in bad weather. :crazy:

I try to just pretend the Cross Bronx isn't there, so I won't ever be tempted to use it. :D
 
At least the signage is accurate...
 

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You haven't driven the FDR Drive, the LIE, or the Cross Bronx Expressway, have you?

:wink2:
Notice where I wrote "most" traffic. But even so - I really doubt there is a public road in this country that takes more time and dedication to learn to drive then it does to acquire a private pilots certificate.
 
Not for beginners... especially at night, in bad weather. :crazy:

I try to just pretend the Cross Bronx isn't there, so I won't ever be tempted to use it. :D
Nor for drivers from the middle of the country either.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, there's probably a lot of cues we use for driving we don't think about. In NE, it's apparently legal to have dark windows for all of the glass except the windshield (I think some places only allow dark windows for the back seats)- I realized how I use the direction another driver is looking for cues. If the driver is looking at me, they probably see me and probably won't drive into me. With the dark glass, I couldn't see what the other driver was looking at.
 
I realized how I use the direction another driver is looking for cues. If the driver is looking at me, they probably see me and probably won't drive into me.

Head position means nothing. Looking at you means 1/100000000000th of head position.
Watch the front wheels. That will tell you what a driver is doing and about to do. Everything else is bunk.
 
Head position means nothing. Looking at you means 1/100000000000th of head position.
Watch the front wheels. That will tell you what a driver is doing and about to do. Everything else is bunk.
I disagree with the first and second sentence. I know that if they don't look at me, they most likely don't know I'm there. What they are looking at is only one cue, as is where their wheels are pointing as you mantion. How much do wheels change direction during a lane change on a highway? I will often see the person look at their mirror, or move their head to clear the blind spot.

We probably don't know all the cues we use while driving. I suspect that's one reason people concentrating on their cell-phone conversation will often leave a large gap after the car in front of them, or formation-drive with another vehicle. They are compensating for their lack of cues.
 
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