Going for Sport Cert - but train in a 150?

[Baked Potato]

I think I can much more easily qualify for a light sport cert than a PPL, so have my sights set on that in the near term. There's a flight school that operates out of a couple airparks near me. The nearest has a 172 and a 150. The FBO with the LSA planes are a little further out (which is a bit more driving time over the course of the lessons).

Is there harm in training in the 150 for a while then moving on to the appropriate LSA aircraft at some later time? I know that obviously I can't solo in the 150. I'm a very new student.

 

[Half Fast]

That can work. Once you switch to the LSA, you’ll likely need a few hours of transition training. Make sure you allow for that.

It might be better to just start in the LSA when you consider the cost of transitioning.

 

[somorris]

Unless it is a huge difference in distance, I would start with the LSA from the beginning.

 

[FormerHangie]

Does a 150 fly significantly differently than the average LSA? Their wing loadings and power to weight ratio are similar.

 

[Half Fast]

Does a 150 fly significantly differently than the average LSA? Their wing loadings and power to weight ratio are similar.

I’ve never flown a 150, so I can’t answer definitively. LSAs do handle quite a bit differently than 172s and Cherokees. In any case, transition won’t be nothing. Might take 1 hour, might take several, but it will be something.

 

[Warmi]

Does a 150 fly significantly differently than the average LSA? Their wing loadings and power to weight ratio are similar.

As I remember LSAs I tried during my training ( Remos GX , SportCruiser and Evektor ) were more a lot more responsive and overall just more fun to fly than 150/172s. ( with the 150 specifically being just so damn small and cramped I remember hating it - and I am 6 feet and 205 lbs so pretty average )
Go for LSAs.

PS.
Just looked up some numbers and 150s cabin is 38” wide while SportCruiser lists 46” cabin - no wonder.

 

[Daleandee]

Depends on the particular LSA but from my experience the difference isn't great. Most sport planes that I have flown that cruise at 100-120 knots (C-150 speeds) are much crisper on the controls and have a lighter feel but it won't take long to acclimate to the difference.

You are correct that all solo work and the final exam with the DPE needs to be done in an LSA. So either renting or going through a flight school will be necessary. Renting could be problematic depending on how much time/experience is required before they will allow you to solo their plane.

There are also endorsements that can be added to a light sport certificate that are already part of the PPL. So if PPL is a long term goal you might consider just taking the plunge now and go with that as you stated there is a nearby school with training planes available.

Either way ... enjoy the journey!

 

[rhkennerly]

Nothing wrong with your plan. In great part, LSA is just PPL in smaller steps. Finish LSA & you can fly one passenger within 50 miles of that airport. Add a few more hours for an endorsement to fly from a controlled airport. Add some more hours & earn an LSA cross-country endorsement. Then just finish the ppl written & get a 3rd class med, plus a few specific tasks like night flying for the PPL.

if C150’s is the upper limit of your immediate ambitions, most modern LSAs meet or exceed the C150’s size & flight parameters. If you’re into cubs, Aeronca, etc., then just buy/rent/build a modern taildragger LSA: Bushcat, Kitfox, there are dozens.

Of course, I always caution people new to flying: don’t invest hours of training & hundreds of dollars if you haven’t passed your 3rd class medical. (Or 1st class if your eye is on the airlines.)

Your case is a bit different, however. The rule is that if you are denied a 3rd Class medical, then you are prohibited from getting an LSA license. However, if you never ask that question (take the FAA medical exam), then you can use your valid state driver’s license as a medical for LSAs as long as your DL is valid.

the "trick" is to go for a "consultation" with a medical examiner beforehand. Never fill out the FAA medical information online before you are sure to pass. Just print it out & use it during the exam as a checklist. Yes, you pay for two medicals this way, but you still get to fly if you din't pass the med for some reason.
Good luck.

 

[Daleandee]

Finish LSA & you can fly one passenger within 50 miles of that airport. Add a few more hours for an endorsement to fly from a controlled airport. Add some more hours & earn an LSA cross-country endorsement.

Please cite the regulations for these ...

 

[idahoflier]

Sure, you could do this, but does it really make sense? Unless you're going to have the same CFI when you transition to an LSA I think it's going to be counterproductive because you will likely end up flying the LSA a similar number of hours. If it was me I would start with the Sport Pilot program and see it through, it will likely be the fastest for you...

Good Luck!

 

[Dana]

Please cite the regulations for these ...

I think he's confusing SP with the old Recreational Pilot certificate.

 

[Half Fast]

Please cite the regulations for these ...

He’s confusing Recreational Pilot with Sport Pilot. There’s no 50 mile limit, etc., with SP.

 

[Aviatorbrew]

You will have to switch planes or get a 3rd class, Light sport privileges will not allow solo in the 150. Of course, that depends on how well you learn the initial phases, People general solo between 8 hrs and 15 hrs average

 

[Daleandee]

I think he's confusing SP with the old Recreational Pilot certificate.

He’s confusing Recreational Pilot with Sport Pilot. There’s no 50 mile limit, etc., with SP.

Thank you gentlemen. I knew he was giving erroneous information. I was hoping that he would go back and look at the regs and make the correction. That was the reason I asked for references.

 

[Baked Potato]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I will try to switch to the LSA planes when they (and instructors) are available. I may do another couple flights in the 150 in the short term just for some basics, as that plane and CFI I've been working with have good availability, and because I still have a lot of the basics to learn (radio work and other procedures) that apply to any plane.
My first two lessons were actually in a 172. The experience was amazing enough for me to decide that this is something I want to pursue, at least for fun. But then switched to the 150 because it's a bit cheaper hourly.
(But then switched my focus once again to sport until I know I can get a third class, which may be a while)

But after my discovery flight I can't go back now. I have to fly.

 

[Daleandee]

But after my discovery flight I can't go back now. I have to fly.

 

[Baked Potato]

What are the exact rules governing sunlight and when a sport-certified pilot can fly? How is it enforced?

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

What are the exact rules governing sunlight and when a sport-certified pilot can fly? How is it enforced?

"You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft:
[...]
At night."

Enforced like any other rule - it's on the honor system. Unless of course, something happens or someone complains.

 

[midlifeflyer]

"You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft:
[...]
At night."

Just to be complete should probably add

"Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Air Almanac, converted to local time."

 

[Samuel Seidel]

You can still fly doing and shortly thereafter sunset basically (10-30 minutes).

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Just to be complete should probably add

"Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Air Almanac, converted to local time."

Good point.
And you have to have position lights to operate any aircraft between sundown and sunrise. (civil twilight gets you an extra half an hour ish after /before sunset / sunrise) But the requirement for lights applies to any aircraft not just to us light and sporty guys.

 

[Warmi]

Flying at night gets old real quick, especially once you hit your mid-late 40s …so not much of a restriction …to me at least.

 

[WDD]

Another thought. You say the airport with the LSA rental is a bit further out. Is that distance going to get in the way of renting once you get your license?

 

[samiamPA]

I did the exact opposite. Started training in an LSA (Skycatcher), but switched to 150/152 due to cost. If the 150 is easier to get to, the additional requirements for the PPL are fairly minimal. 3 hours of night and 3 hours of simulated instrument, plus slightly longer XC. It was worth it for access to cheaper planes (and a broader array of airplanes).

To answer your question, the 150 is easier to fly than the Skycatcher was. So I found it pretty straightforward to go from the LSA that I soloed in to a 150. The controls on LSA's are very light so it takes some getting used to.

 

[Baked Potato]

I'm a little discouraged due to the relative unavailability of the LSA. I can keep training in the 150 or a 172 nearby, but since attaining a third class medical may be a long, uphill battle for me (despite me being one of the healthiest people I know), I can't solo in one. I'm not too optimistic right now.

 

[Baked Potato]

Another thought. You say the airport with the LSA rental is a bit further out. Is that distance going to get in the way of renting once you get your license?

Yes, and it looks to be in high demand too

 

[Albany Tom]

Just a suggestion - split the goals of learning to fly, and obtaining a pilot certificate. They are related, but they're two different things. I'd figure out what either the least expensive or less painful way to learn is, and do that, then sort out how to transition to LSA and get the checkride in that. Once you have your light sport, you can figure out if you want to go down the road of private pilot, or keep flying light sport.

Not for medical reasons, but I went light sport first, and had a lot of fun with that. I was fortunate, in that there was a place about an hour drive away where I can do that. Wouldn't trade the experience for the world. And once you've done that, flown solo, or taken up your first passenger, you'll remember that experience as long as you have memory.

I'd be cautious about the risk of failing the 3rd class...but I am fairly risk averse. I don't see LSA becoming more restrictive, and perhaps some day basic med won't require an initial class 3 (no idea). Or perhaps whatever you have going on will be an easier path down the road. Short version, I'd recommend go fly.

 

[Albany Tom]

Yes, and it looks to be in high demand too

Because it's fun!

 

[Baked Potato]

I'm having a little trouble finding what is required to keep a sport certificate current year-to-year after I get one. Can it be kept current by flying with a CFI? I'm asking because if so, then I can just rent any available 150/152 or 172 and a CFI and do some landings to keep the cert current? They are just so much more ubiquitous than LSA, and readily available nearby.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I'm having a little trouble finding what is required to keep a sport certificate current year-to-year after I get one. Can it be kept current by flying with a CFI? I'm asking because if so, then I can just rent any available 150/152 or 172 and a CFI and do some landings to keep the cert current? They are just so much more ubiquitous than LSA, and readily available nearby.

Not sure what you mean by keeping the certificate current, but flight reviews need to be in an airplane that you’re rated for. Landings are category and class, so could probably be done with an instructor in a 152 or 172, but they can also be done solo in an LSA.

 

[Baked Potato]

Don't I need to fly x number of hours each year after getting my certificate? I'm not sure of the requirements. As you can tell, I'm new at this and don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[Half Fast]

14 CFR 61.56 requires your flight review to be in an aircraft for which you are rated, so I’d say “No.”

BTW, it’s required every two years, not every year.

 

[Half Fast]

Don't I need to fly x number of hours each year after getting my certificate? I'm not sure of the requirements. As you can tell, I'm new at this and don't know what I'm talking about.

No, you don’t. No minimum. You could go a decade without flying, complete a flight review and be legal again. Not recommending that, of course.

Y’know, your difficulties with rental LSAs would vanish if you just bought your own.

 

[Baked Potato]

No, you don’t. No minimum. You could go a decade without flying, complete a flight review and be legal again. Not recommending that, of course.

Y’know, your difficulties with rental LSAs would vanish if you just bought your own.

Ok, thanks, I'll let my wife know you suggested that, to further my case

 

[Albany Tom]

Yep. The certificate doesn't expire. The x landings w/in x days is just to maintain currency to take up passengers. If you're not current, you just do those take off/landings solo, and you're current again. A flight review is required within the past 2 years. If that lapses, you just go up with a cfi and get a review. All simple stuff. When learning to fly, you'll be more efficient if you don't string it out as long, all other things being equal. Flying more than once a week is ideal. If you can only fly once a month, progress would likely be incredibly slow, for most people. Lots of people do once a week and make that work. Not a cfi, just a pilot.

 

[O2 Birddog]

Just to be complete should probably add

"Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Air Almanac, converted to local time."

Everything I've read or been told defines night for our purposes as one hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise.

Is this incorrect?

 

[O2 Birddog]

You can still fly doing and shortly thereafter sunset basically (10-30 minutes).

59 minutes after sunset and before sunrise is my understanding.

 

[O2 Birddog]

Yep. The certificate doesn't expire. The x landings w/in x days is just to maintain currency to take up passengers. If you're not current, you just do those take off/landings solo, and you're current again. A flight review is required within the past 2 years. If that lapses, you just go up with a cfi and get a review. All simple stuff. When learning to fly, you'll be more efficient if you don't string it out as long, all other things being equal. Flying more than once a week is ideal. If you can only fly once a month, progress would likely be incredibly slow, for most people. Lots of people do once a week and make that work. Not a cfi, just a pilot.

This has always been a head scratcher for me. If currency requires X number of TAL's with passengers and you lose currency how do you regain that currency without passengers onboard?

Check ride with CFI?

 

[Dana]

This has always been a head scratcher for me. If currency requires X number of TAL's with passengers and you lose currency how do you regain that currency without passengers onboard?

Check ride with CFI?

Currency doesn't require landings with a passenger, it's required before you can carry passengers.

 

[dmspilot]

Everything I've read or been told defines night for our purposes as one hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise.

Only for recency of experience requirements to carry passengers during the time period you described. 61.57.