Go Around at KLGA?

[Skip Miller]

Look at the attached photo taken from Google Earth.

One on the runway, one on the piano keys, and one on short final.

It is apparent from the rest of the photo that KLGA is down to single runway operations, landing and taking off from 31. Things look a bit close for my taste. The plane on the piano keys probably could not have moved from the hold short line that quickly, so I bet the plane down the runway is an arrival.

Do they allow 121 carriers to overfly someone on the piano keys? I bet not.

-Skip

 

[pgengler]

It looks to me like there's a seam between two different images just east of the runway, so the one on the runway and the one on short final are different times and probably even different days.

 

[silver-eagle]

Lots of the google sat shots are composites as are m/w live and NASA's Visible Earth. Look at BOS. You'll see similar happenings.
Still, it is disconcerting to see the aircrafts so close together. Real or otherwise.

 

[Arnold]

First, I think the photo is not a single photo as has been pointed out by others.

Second, your question was about go arounds. If a go around is the safest maneuver it is the one that will be used. Would an aircraft as low to the gound as the arriving aircraft cross over the approach end. Probably, and it may be close enought to report as an operational error of some sort, but that is a much better noise abatement decision than the alternative.

Third, this is a relatively plausable scenario, controllers will routinely direct an aircraft to position and hold while the preceding arrival is still on the runway. If the landing aircraft has some sort of problem and can't get off the runway as expected you'll probably end up with a go around.

Fourth, I have needed to go around at ORD a few times and they always - always - had a place to put me. As soon as I told the tower we were going around they had an altitude and a turn right away. Go arounds are not routine, but they are not a 'deal' despite how infrequent they are in air carrier operations. Just like they are not a 'deal' for any licensed pilot.

Still, this would make me very nervous if I were the one holding at the approach end. I surely know there is an arrival right behind me. I must trust that the outcome will be a safe one.

 

[Skip Miller]

It looks to me like there's a seam between two different images just east of the runway, so the one on the runway and the one on short final are different times and probably even different days.

I agree that multiple photos seem to be at work, but I see no evidence that there are three photos. It still seems like two of the planes are too close, pick any two!

-Skip

 

[pgengler]

My best guess is that the one down the runway is on his takeoff roll and the one of the piano keys was cleared to "position and hold". Listening the LiveATC streams for some of these airports it's not uncommon to hear a controller clear one plane for takeoff, get an acknowledgment, and then clear the next one to position & hold.

It's hard to say whether it's part of the same set (there's obvious seam) but if you follow the pier (or whatever) on the extended centerline of runway 22 you'll see one inbound. If that's part of the same set of images, then LGA is landing 22/departing 31, which is not at all uncommon.

 

[Teller1900]

It looks to me like there's a seam between two different images just east of the runway, so the one on the runway and the one on short final are different times and probably even different days.

That I can recall, I've done four go-arounds at LGA, all directed by the tower. They have a procedure called "shooting the gap," wherein the rely upon minimum spacing to arrive and depart planes. It's not uncommon to not receive your landing clearance until you're over the approach lights, and often time the runway is still occupied (or crossing traffic hasn't crossed) until you're over the numbers. Closest we came to another plane...

We were on the Expressway Visual to 31, 4 miles in trail of a COA 737. They were departing 31, too, which is not a very favorable configuration for them. As usual, they cleared an American 757 for takeoff as COA was on about a 3 mile final. American launches and COA lands. As soon as COA touches down, they clear an AWAC CRJ into position and hold.

We had been speed restricted to "180kts for as long as possible" which we can hold down to about 800AGL and still get configured on time. As the CRJ moves onto the runway, COA rolls past the normal taxiway, requiring him to go through the runway 4 intersection; much longer than usual. As he starts to make the turn onto the taxiway, they clear the CRJ for takeoff. By now we've started to slow down as we're inside a 3 mile final. This all would have worked, except the 737 stopped with his tail well over the hold short line.

We're below 800 feet at this point, and the CRJ has just released his brakes, then lurched to a stop when they saw the 737 wasn't clear. The captain and I turned to each other and one of us said "here we go," as we got ready for what was looking like an impending go-around.

The tower barked at COA to "taxi clear, without delay," when the pilots reported they couldn't move ahead any more because of FOD on the taxiway.

"Continental X, roger, hold position; break, Wisconsin X, cancel takeoff clearence hold position; break, Colgan 4832 (me) go-around, maintain 2,500 feet, fly heading 360, contact departure 120.8, tell them what you're doing, sorry."

We were just above 200 feet when they called the go-around, so we had to climb straight ahead another 200 feet before we could execute the turn, which took us right over the CRJ...not much we could do about it at that point. Everything looked like normal LGA operations with one plane on roll out, one PnH, and one on short short final until COA said they couldn't move.

 

[KennyFlys]

Could it be possible the aircraft on the threshold pulled into position shortly after the other began a takeoff roll? Or, one had landed and the other pulled out for immediate departure after the runway was clear?