GMA 350 + GTN voice, 350 vs. 345

flyingcheesehead

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iMooniac
Hi all,

Trying to decide between a GMA 345 and a GMA 350c to go with the GTN 750.

For those of you who have the 350+750 combo, do you use the Telligence voice input? Does it work well in the plane? Is it actually useful or just a gimmick?

It looks like that, plus the ability to shift music inputs to individual headsets, are the main differentiating features of the two, except the $400 difference in price.

Is the 350c worth it?
 
The big cost for an audio panel (assuming it's not a straight slide in replacement) would seem the installation -there's a lot of wiring. The small price differentials between audio panel boxes seems somewhat inconsequential in comparison. I would go with the 350.
 
PS Engineering - the 450a.

Their stuff is class-leading, their support, amazing.
 
PS Engineering - the 450a.

Their stuff is class-leading, their support, amazing.

I do think PS Engineering has excellent products. I was instantly impressed the first time I flew with one, way back in 2003.

However, it costs more than either the 345 or 350 and doesn't have the Telligence capability... And the Garmin stuff is pretty good too.

BTW, this is replacing a King KMA 24, so no slide-in replacement with the 450.
 
This is being discussed in another thread too, but I will add I have the 350c with a 750 and use the voice control. Getting better with it and it is convenient compared to touching.

The C gives you Bluetooth and for $100 more than the 350, it is not expensive.
 
This is being discussed in another thread too, but I will add I have the 350c with a 750 and use the voice control. Getting better with it and it is convenient compared to touching.

Would you say that it generally gets your commands right, or do you frequently have to repeat what you said? Does it ever completely misinterpret and do the wrong command entirely, or does it give the tones indicating it doesn't understand?

The C gives you Bluetooth and for $100 more than the 350, it is not expensive.

It's a $300 difference these days. I'll get it.
 
I do think PS Engineering has excellent products. I was instantly impressed the first time I flew with one, way back in 2003.

However, it costs more than either the 345 or 350 and doesn't have the Telligence capability... And the Garmin stuff is pretty good too.

BTW, this is replacing a King KMA 24, so no slide-in replacement with the 450.

Good Morning Kent (I too am a Flying Cheesehead having grown up near Green Bay and having season tickets in the family since 1957)

The price of the PMA450A and the GMA350c is virtually the same, while the GMA345 is about $400 less. However, just completing our "Take the Oshkosh Big Brand Challange" at our booth during Airventure, we got a great number of positive responses from pilot's who were considering the GMA345.

We sleep well at night when we lose a sale to the 35c or 350c due to GARMIN's Telligence, but if voice recognition isn't a priority then we have a very strong story why to consider the PMA450A.

Finally, the PMA8000G fairs well when comparing pricing price/performance with the GMA345 but IMHO there is no comparison between either the GMA345 or GMA350c with our PMA450A.

If you'd like, give us a call, you'll get either me, Greg, or Gary, and together there is almost 100 years of experience in audio control.

Thanks all for the very kind words.

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
Good Morning Kent (I too am a Flying Cheesehead having grown up near Green Bay and having season tickets in the family since 1957)

Nice!

The price of the PMA450A and the GMA350c is virtually the same, while the GMA345 is about $400 less. However, just completing our "Take the Oshkosh Big Brand Challange" at our booth during Airventure, we got a great number of positive responses from pilot's who were considering the GMA345.

Maybe I'm missing something, but your website lists the 450A at $2,595 while Garmin's lists the 350c at $2,295 and the 345 at $1,895. ??

We sleep well at night when we lose a sale to the 35c or 350c due to GARMIN's Telligence, but if voice recognition isn't a priority then we have a very strong story why to consider the PMA450A.

Please... Tell me the story! I would really like to see a comparison of your equipment with Garmin's. I am very interested in Telligence, while my partner is not. But if the price difference is $700 like it seems to be (between 450A and 345), I know I can't yet make the case even to myself to spend the extra money, because I'm not really sure what I'm getting for it.

We're meeting with our avionics guy next Wednesday to (hopefully) finalize our setup.
 
Nice!



Maybe I'm missing something, but your website lists the 450A at $2,595 while Garmin's lists the 350c at $2,295 and the 345 at $1,895. ??



Please... Tell me the story! I would really like to see a comparison of your equipment with Garmin's. I am very interested in Telligence, while my partner is not. But if the price difference is $700 like it seems to be (between 450A and 345), I know I can't yet make the case even to myself to spend the extra money, because I'm not really sure what I'm getting for it.

We're meeting with our avionics guy next Wednesday to (hopefully) finalize our setup.

The way we price our products is different than the way GARMIN does. We provide a larger discount to our dealers which gives us more headroom to use Minimum Advertised Price or MAP.

While our list is $2595 our MAP is $2295 on the PMA450A while list on our PMA8000G is $2095 our MAP is $1895

So when we did our "Take the Oshkosh Big Brand Challenge" at Airventure, it was in response to the GMA345 and what we learned with the unit we purchased for in house tests.

So here are the four questions we'd ask our customers when they visited our challenge.

1) How do you turn on 3D audio? After pilot's studied the front panel of the GMA345 we had to tell them that you pressed and held the PILOT button, then you would hear the annunciation "3D audio left 3D audio right". We would then alert the pilot that there are 21 more what I like to call "secret clubhouse handshakes" with the associated audio annunciations.

The PMA450A has zero audio annunciations and only one secret clubhouse handshake, and this is if you hold down the Entertainment soft key, music for the pilot turns off instantly, or back on. This feature actually is represented on the OLED display with a Music note in the upper right hand corner.

2) How do you change Music Distribution? Again the pilot would look at the panel and some would press the SEL button. We would then have to tell them there is no way to change the Music Distribution (except during the time of installation) and that only the source for all headsets can be selected.

The PMA450A can distribute any of the 3 individual music sources to any of the three stations, Pilot, Copilot, and Passengers

3) Have you ever experienced the frustration of passengers talking when you (the pilot) are trying to hear radio receptions. Some would say yes and indicated that they would change the intercom into either Crew or ISO mode.

We would tell them while the PMA450A has ISO and Crew modes too, we provide Alternate Intercom Function. When in Alternate Intercom Function, everyone is one the intercom BUT the passengers do not hear any radio traffic AND when the radios do become active, the crew will not hear the passengers. Most pilot's get this right away and really like the idea.

The PMA450A also provides "Copilot As Passanger" which has been well received by the pilot community.

4) Do you use Bluetooth? If yes, we would ask them to pair their phone to the GMA345. Then we would ask if they use iPads for ForeFlight or other navigation applications. If they say yes, we would ask them to try to pair our or their iPad to the GMA345....but you can't. You can only connect one device at a time with the GMA345

The PMA450A can connect 3 devices at the same time, an iPhone, an iPad, and a digital device like a video camera to stream audio from the PMA450A so it can be recorded wirelessly.

Finally, we would bring them over to the PMA450A and ask the same four questions, every one of these questions were almost always answered by the pilot looking at the OLED display and selecting one of the 3 appropriate soft keys. The point is that the PMA450A is very intuitive and you don't need a laminated quick user's guide in the cockpit. Heck, I find my laminated aircraft checklist a pain ;)

And recently, we even have added a count down timer with audio alerts, perfect for timed approaches or switching fuel tanks!

So that was our Challange Kent. Thanks for asking.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
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Would you say that it generally gets your commands right, or do you frequently have to repeat what you said? Does it ever completely misinterpret and do the wrong command entirely, or does it give the tones indicating it doesn't understand?

It's a $300 difference these days. I'll get it.

You have to go through a learning set-up process, but I find it works well.

My dealer charged me $100 more for C over 350. List may be more, but ask your dealer. List prices are just that - list, and not sales price.
 
Thanks Mark - Good stuff! I definitely appreciate a good user experience. I'm meeting with my partner and our avionics guy this afternoon, I'll definitely bring this up. I've also been thinking about how I'm going to want to set up Bluetooth between my devices, the new audio panel, and my recently purchased Lightspeed headset. :confused:

The way we price our products is different than the way GARMIN does. We provide a larger discount to our dealers which gives us more headroom to use Minimum Advertised Price or MAP.

While our list is $2595 our MAP is $2295 on the PMA450A while list on our PMA8000G is $2095 our MAP is $1895

So when we did our "Take the Oshkosh Big Brand Challenge" at Airventure, it was in response to the GMA345 and what we learned with the unit we purchased for in house tests.

So here are the four questions we'd ask our customers when they visited our challenge.

1) How do you turn on 3D audio? After pilot's studied the front panel of the GMA345 we had to tell them that you pressed and held the PILOT button, then you would hear the annunciation "3D audio left 3D audio right". We would then alert the pilot that there are 21 more what I like to call "secret clubhouse handshakes" with the associated audio annunciations.

The PMA450A has zero audio annunciations and only one secret clubhouse handshake, and this is if you hold down the Entertainment soft key, music for the pilot turns off instantly, or back on. This feature actually is represented on the OLED display with a Music note in the upper right hand corner.

2) How do you change Music Distribution? Again the pilot would look at the panel and some would press the SEL button. We would then have to tell them there is no way to change the Music Distribution (except during the time of installation) and that only the source for all headsets can be selected.

The PMA450A can distribute any of the 3 individual music sources to any of the three stations, Pilot, Copilot, and Passengers

3) Have you ever experienced the frustration of passengers talking when you (the pilot) are trying to hear radio receptions. Some would say yes and indicated that they would change the intercom into either Crew or ISO mode.

We would tell them while the PMA450A has ISO and Crew modes too, we provide Alternate Intercom Function. When in Alternate Intercom Function, everyone is one the intercom BUT the passengers do not hear any radio traffic AND when the radios do become active, the crew will not hear the passengers. Most pilot's get this right away and really like the idea.

The PMA450A also provides "Copilot As Passanger" which has been well received by the pilot community.

4) Do you use Bluetooth? If yes, we would ask them to pair their phone to the GMA345. Then we would ask if they use iPads for ForeFlight or other navigation applications. If they say yes, we would ask them to try to pair our or their iPad to the GMA345....but you can't. You can only connect one device at a time with the GMA345

The PMA450A can connect 3 devices at the same time, an iPhone, an iPad, and a digital device like a video camera to stream audio from the PMA450A so it can be recorded wirelessly.

Finally, we would bring them over to the PMA450A and ask the same four questions, every one of these questions were almost always answered by the pilot looking at the OLED display and selecting one of the 3 appropriate soft keys. The point is that the PMA450A is very intuitive and you don't need a laminated quick user's guide in the cockpit. Heck, I find my laminated aircraft checklist a pain ;)

And recently, we even have added a count down timer with audio alerts, perfect for timed approaches or switching fuel tanks!

So that was our Challange Kent. Thanks for asking.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
You have to go through a learning set-up process, but I find it works well.

When you say "learning set-up process", is it learning your voice? Or is it voice-agnostic and just needs to learn the sound environment in your airplane? (Do you do it with the engine running?)

Since I have a partner and we're hoping to add a third (and maybe even more so we could get a second airplane), if it's specific to one person's voice, that's a non-starter.
 
When you say "learning set-up process", is it learning your voice? Or is it voice-agnostic and just needs to learn the sound environment in your airplane? (Do you do it with the engine running?)

Since I have a partner and we're hoping to add a third (and maybe even more so we could get a second airplane), if it's specific to one person's voice, that's a non-starter.


http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-04_K.pdf near the back.

I'd bet its gonna work better with some headsets better than others. One of mine picks up a lot of backround noise and isn't very balanced with my other headsets being used on the same intercom.
 
Thanks Mark - Good stuff! I definitely appreciate a good user experience. I'm meeting with my partner and our avionics guy this afternoon, I'll definitely bring this up. I've also been thinking about how I'm going to want to set up Bluetooth between my devices, the new audio panel, and my recently purchased Lightspeed headset. :confused:
What did you go with and how was it?
 
What did you go with and how was it?

We went ahead with the GMA 350c with voice control.

It. Is. Awesome. At least, when paired with the GTN... It really makes up for what I think is a shortcoming of the GTN user interface, that is, you have to hit "Home" and then dig down to the screen you want.

Now, I just have a "Push To Command" button on each yoke. Instead of hitting "Home->Procedures->Approach" I just key the PTC and say "Show destination approaches." If I want to listen to the ATIS after firing up, I just say "Tune Nearest ATIS" and flip-flop the radio. If you say "Tune Destination Approach" and there are multiple frequencies, it'll pop up a window with all of the approach frequencies and you tap what you want. It has some context-sensitive commands too, so you can say things like "Next Tab" if you're on a screen with multiple tabs, and you can say things like "Back" and "Zoom In" too.

You do have to learn the commands - It is not like Siri/Google/Alexa that will try to interpret what you say, for two big reasons: You're not connected to the Internet like they are, so you can't send an audio clip away to a supercomputer that can interpret random commands. You also have a limited vocabulary (similar to the Pilot/Controller Glossary for example) so that the machine can easily listen for just the commands it knows when you hit the PTC button. That keeps it from misinterpreting anything.

Because of that, it has NEVER done anything unexpected. If I use a command that doesn't actually exist, it just does nothing. (It can be configured to play a "no joy" tone if you'd like.) None of the old "Hey Alexa, add vegetable oil to my grocery list." "Okay, calling your mother-in-law." :rofl: It works just fine with different voices, too - My partner and I both use it.

Both my partner and my avionics guy tried to talk me out of it initially. I convinced my partner to go for it because the price difference wasn't all that great, and when my avionics guy saw it in action on the test flight, he decided to get one for his own plane.

Without the GTN, it wouldn't be so useful. I rarely switch settings on the audio panel, and I don't often use the voice commands there. With the GTN, it's a no-brainer.
 
We replaced a GMA-340 with a GMA-345. We are very happy with the product. The key features that caused us to do the upgrade along with our installation of the GTX-345 transponder where the zero install effort, the 3D audio (we fly in the NY class B and getting ATIS while listening to approach is a challenge), the ATC playback button, the built in USB port and the $250 rebate from Garmin we got at Oshkosh. Since installation we have been delighted with the audio quality and ease of use once set-up.
 
Great pilot report, I've been considering the 350 to go along with my 650.

In case you couldn't tell, it's well worth it. ;) Probably even more so on the 650 - A FlightStream 510 and a GMA350c would go a long way in making up for the smaller screen on the 650.
 
:needpics:

...of the new panel!!!
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I've been leaning towards the 350c also for this reason. I think the voice control could be pretty useful.

Garmin is really good at extending the panel. The FlightStream 510 really sold me on their thinking. I control my GTN 650 with my iPad... I don't have to mess with the 650 too much. It really feels like the iPad is a part of the panel. The Telligence feature could make it even more streamlined.

When it comes to audio panels, my thinking is, the price is not a differentiator. Get the one you want with the features you want. The cost of installation is so high that it's crazy to skimp.
 
:needpics:

...of the new panel!!!

I posted it in another thread, but here ya go! :)

fullsizerender-2-jpg.58278
 
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