Global warming thwarts helicopter flight

LDJones

Touchdown! Greaser!
Gone West
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Display name:
Jonesy
A buddy has been stuck in northern Iowa for two days trying to get a helicopter from St. Louis to Minneapolis. At least he found hangar space and some tools to get some maintenance done on it while waiting out the weather.

From a nearby newspaper:
It was the eighth time snow has been reported in North Iowa in May since records have been kept, Frederick said.

But the 2013 storm set a record for snow totals.

The latest date for measurable snowfall in Mason City was in May 1947, when 4 inches was recorded on May 27 and another half inch on May 28, Frederick said.

National Weather Service meteorologist Craig Cogil said the 11 inches recorded at Forest City and nearby Britt by Thursday morning was the state’s largest snowfall in a 24-hour period in May, the state’s highest snowfall total from any storm in May and the state’s most snow recorded ever in May.

The strong winds associated with this system made for an interesting flight to IA in a 60-70 kt helicopter. He said at one point he was passed by a tractor! :rofl:
 
Jonesy, please stop commenting on global warming. You are thoroughly clueless about it, and keep confusing climate with weather. EVERY statement you make about one event having anything to do with global warming is wrong. And not just a little wrong. It's like having your car run low on fuel and assuming that means every car, everywhere runs out of fuel forever. What would you think about someone who made that claim?
 
I'm pretty sure he meant that tongue in cheek.
 
Jonesy, please stop commenting on global warming. You are thoroughly clueless about it, and keep confusing climate with weather. EVERY statement you make about one event having anything to do with global warming is wrong. And not just a little wrong. It's like having your car run low on fuel and assuming that means every car, everywhere runs out of fuel forever. What would you think about someone who made that claim?


Well when a bunch of cars run out of fuel, it's no longer an isolated incident.
 
Jonesy, please stop commenting on global warming. You are thoroughly clueless about it, and keep confusing climate with weather. EVERY statement you make about one event having anything to do with global warming is wrong. And not just a little wrong. It's like having your car run low on fuel and assuming that means every car, everywhere runs out of fuel forever. What would you think about someone who made that claim?

Touchy subject ehh?

Head on over to the Spin Zone and let him know what you think about this BS.

I'm pretty sure it was his attempt at humor. :rofl:

But he should know, global warming is no laughing matter. :rofl:
 
Jonesy, please stop commenting on global warming. You are thoroughly clueless about it, and keep confusing climate with weather. EVERY statement you make about one event having anything to do with global warming is wrong. And not just a little wrong. It's like having your car run low on fuel and assuming that means every car, everywhere runs out of fuel forever. What would you think about someone who made that claim?

Yep...that's certainly true. If you were to say that cars are taking more gas to operate, then you could show that no such increase had occurred in the last 17 years, you certainly are entitled to continue to believe that it will increase in the future.

I guess it's only OK to blame global warming when a hurricane hits...then of course that's climate, not weather. But a snowstorm in May is just weather.
 
Yep...that's certainly true. If you were to say that cars are taking more gas to operate, then you could show that no such increase had occurred in the last 17 years, you certainly are entitled to continue to believe that it will increase in the future.

I guess it's only OK to blame global warming when a hurricane hits...then of course that's climate, not weather. But a snowstorm in May is just weather.

FWIW when it's ass chapping cold, it typically doesn't snow, due to the inability for the air to hold much moisture content... or so I'm told. The clearest flights I've ever taken were in -20F
 
FWIW when it's ass chapping cold, it typically doesn't snow, due to the inability for the air to hold much moisture content... or so I'm told. The clearest flights I've ever taken were in -20F

As someone who's lived winters in Edmonton, Alberta (where it drops to -40 and sits there for weeks at a stretch), I'll confirm this.
 
Jonesy, please stop commenting on global warming. You are thoroughly clueless about it, and keep confusing climate with weather. EVERY statement you make about one event having anything to do with global warming is wrong. And not just a little wrong. It's like having your car run low on fuel and assuming that means every car, everywhere runs out of fuel forever. What would you think about someone who made that claim?

Lighten up and learn to take a joke! (Although I'm not completely clueless on it. I was very concerned back in the 90s and started reading everything I could on the topic, as well as seeking out some climatologists to help me understand it better. Let's just say I'm no longer in the "consensus" camp. But I do keep studying.)

BTW, when we were boating a month earlier last year, it wasn't "weather" but the "new normal", according to the alarmist crowd. Funny how that works.
 
Sorry, ignorance is not funny, especially when used to push an agenda.


HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Oh you're killing me...
That is so funny, blaming non consensus people for using fake science to push an agenda.
 
I don't get the joke. Extreme weather, such as more powerful snow storms and such, is a well known and predicted consequence of global warming.
 
I don't get the joke. Extreme weather, such as more powerful snow storms and such, is a well known and predicted consequence of global warming.

In November through March maybe.
 
In November through March maybe.

I'm no expert, but I believe the science says that global warming will impact weather throughout the year, create extreme cold and hot weather in both winter and summer, in various locations.
 
I'm no expert, but I believe the science says that global warming will impact weather throughout the year, create extreme cold and hot weather in both winter and summer, in various locations.

I call that explanation by scientists backtracking. ;)

The first statements out 20 years ago was everything was everything was going to get hot hot hot hot, we weren't going to have winters anymore, etc... But that didn't happen, and then it was "yeah, well, um...now things will just get colder and warmer!"

"What?"
 
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I call that explanation by scientists backtracking. ;)

The first statements out 20 years ago was everything was everything was going to get hot hot hot hot, we weren't going to have winters anymore, etc... But that didn't happen, and then it was "yeah, well, um...now things will just get colder and warmer!"

"What?"

No, the predominant statements out 20 years ago were that weather would be more extreme and that climate zones would migrate northward. The FIRST statements came out much earlier than that, and they were rather similar, though substantially less certain.

Don't make up facts. Some of us were around then.

No scientist claimed winters were over, at least not in a human timescale. That the earth might be ice-free year-round may happen someday, but it is not on the horizon.
 
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I call that explanation by scientists backtracking. ;)

The first statements out 20 years ago was everything was everything was going to get hot hot hot hot, we weren't going to have winters anymore, etc... But that didn't happen, and then it was "yeah, well, um...now things will just get colder and warmer!"

"What?"

*shrugs* I dunno. They're the ones studying it, not me. :)

In college, I did a small amount of research on chaotic systems and chaos mathematics, and can totally get that its hard to predict these sorts of complex systems. So it makes sense to me that they'd be revising their models over time as they gather data and watch what's happening.

Out of curiosity, were you hearing that from the media (which always gets everything wrong) or from actual scientists, their papers on the subject, etc? From actual scientists, I personally have only ever heard about increases in the extremes the weather will reach, nothing about it only being hot or anything.
 
No, the predominant statements out 20 years ago were that weather would be more extreme and that climate zones would migrate northward. The FIRST statements came out much earlier than that, and they were rather similar, though substantially less certain.

Don't make up facts. Some of us were around then.

No scientist claimed winters were over, at least not in a human timescale. That the earth might be ice-free year-round may happen someday, but it is not on the horizon.

Yeah, so was I. Everything was "ice caps melting!" "sea levels rising!" "No more winter!" "NYC, LA, Miami, London underwater!"

In the 80s and early 90s it was never about winters being more harsh, or lasting longer. I was around then. It's only after the lack of sea levels rising 3m, and winters not going away that it went from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change." So don't try and bull**** me.
 
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Joyce, you're local. There are some actual climate scientists over here at Ames, not random blowhards on an internet forum who don't understand what "global" or "climate" or even "change" means. If I shout loud enough, I might even get one to answer (one of the carbon groups is directly upstairs).
 
Yeah, so was I. Everything was "ice caps melting!" "sea levels rising!" "No more winter!" "NYC, LA, Miami, London underwater!"

In the 80s and early 90s it was never about winters being more harsh. I was around then. Don't try and bull**** me.

You can start here.

Note the date. Models and input data are substantially better now, and yield broadly similar results.

Keeling, Charles D. (1970). "Is Carbon Dioxide from Fossil Fuel Changing Man's Environment?" Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society 114: 10-17.

Care to find a citation for your "no more winter" claim? No, newspapers do not count. Very few newspapers keep scientists on staff, or even consult.
 
I don't get the joke. Extreme weather, such as more powerful snow storms and such, is a well known and predicted consequence of global warming.

Yep...craziest weather since...uh, 1947.

The beauty of the AGW Alarmist arguments is, no matter what the weather does, they win! Hotter? Global warming! Colder? Global warming! Dryer? Global warming! Wetter? Global warming!

It's an awesome gig if you can get it.

But this thread was more about a thwarted flight...with a little AGW humor thrown in.

He's still stuck there, btw.
 
Yep...craziest weather since...uh, 1947.

The beauty of the AGW Alarmist arguments is, no matter what the weather does, they win! Hotter? Global warming! Colder? Global warming! Dryer? Global warming! Wetter? Global warming!

It's an awesome gig if you can get it.

But this thread was more about a thwarted flight...with a little AGW humor thrown in.

He's still stuck there, btw.

Variability can be quantified.

I'll say it again. You haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. You are confusing weather with climate.
 
You can start here.

Note the date. Models and input data are substantially better now, and yield broadly similar results.

Keeling, Charles D. (1970). "Is Carbon Dioxide from Fossil Fuel Changing Man's Environment?" Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society 114: 10-17.

Care to find a citation for your "no more winter" claim? No, newspapers do not count.

I heard the media doing the same "ice caps melting, no more winters!" shouting for decades now, but I've never heard the same directly from scientists that actually study the thing.

After working in Silicon Valley and having articles written about things I've worked on, I've come to learn just how inaccurate media reporting is about things. My friends that are scientists tell me that it's even worse for them. :p
 
Yep...craziest weather since...uh, 1947.

The beauty of the AGW Alarmist arguments is, no matter what the weather does, they win! Hotter? Global warming! Colder? Global warming! Dryer? Global warming! Wetter? Global warming!

It's an awesome gig if you can get it.

But this thread was more about a thwarted flight...with a little AGW humor thrown in.

He's still stuck there, btw.

I was just commenting that it may very well be a result of global warming that your friend is stuck over there. What you intended to be humor could actually be accurate! :p I mean, I don't know, I'm not a climate scientist. But I could totally believe it.

EDIT: And I think it's interesting to see the impact that climate change has on us as individuals, such as the way it is impacting aviation.
 
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Yep...craziest weather since...uh, 1947.

The beauty of the AGW Alarmist arguments is, no matter what the weather does, they win! Hotter? Global warming! Colder? Global warming! Dryer? Global warming! Wetter? Global warming!

It's an awesome gig if you can get it.

But this thread was more about a thwarted flight...with a little AGW humor thrown in.

He's still stuck there, btw.

And if nothing happens.... THE PLAN WORKED!!! wOO hOO.
 
Variability can be quantified.

I'll say it again. You haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. You are confusing weather with climate.

I know...that's the mantra...unless the "weather" supports the "consensus"...been observing it for some time now.
 
I was just commenting that it may very well be a result of global warming that your friend is stuck over there. What you intended to be humor could actually be accurate! :p I mean, I don't know, I'm not a climate scientist. But I could totally believe it.

EDIT: And I think it's interesting to see the impact that climate change has on us as individuals, such as the way it is impacting aviation.

Weather has been impacting aviation for around 100 years.
 
You can start here.

Note the date. Models and input data are substantially better now, and yield broadly similar results.

Keeling, Charles D. (1970). "Is Carbon Dioxide from Fossil Fuel Changing Man's Environment?" Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society 114: 10-17.

Care to find a citation for your "no more winter" claim? No, newspapers do not count. Very few newspapers keep scientists on staff, or even consult.


http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls-are-now-just-a-thing-of-the-past-724017.html

Yes, it's an article, but the quotes in it are from climate scientists.

*waits for "those were taken out of context" or "those aren't real scientists" excuses*
 
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Weather has been impacting aviation for around 100 years.

Yeah, but you were talking about climate change, which is a change in general weather patterns, perhaps in some places creating greater concentration of non-aviation friendly weather?

Now you're getting me curious about the actual information on this.
 
The climate has been changing since the earth was formed. To think man has anything to do with it is pure arrogance.

Changes in solar activity and intensity have more to do with earth's climate than anything we do. If the sun farts, we are nothing but a flaming marshmallow hurtling through space.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/04/11/sun-emits-largest-solar-storm-of-2013

What to drive a MMGW alarmist nuts? Tell them science is still studying the issue, and it is not settled science. To anyone that believes that science has concluded MMGW is settled knows nothing about science. They believe in the religion of MMGW.
 
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Yeah, but you were talking about climate change, which is a change in general weather patterns, perhaps in some places creating greater concentration of non-aviation friendly weather?

Now you're getting me curious about the actual information on this.

It's a JOKE.... :D :) :lol: :rofl: Are there any other emoticons I can throw out there?!!

We get crazy weather from time to time. Always have, always will.

But we are in a general warming trend...have been since the last ice age ended a couple hundred years ago. (Thank, God!)
 
It's a JOKE.... :D :) :lol: :rofl: Are there any other emoticons I can throw out there?!!

We get crazy weather from time to time. Always have, always will.

But we are in a general warming trend...have been since the last ice age ended a couple hundred years ago. (Thank, God!)

Don't mind me. I just love science, and learning about what's going on in the world. I get that you were making jokes. I just want to see what's *actually* happening now, and how aviation is being impacted by climate change.

I haven't read that PDF, but probably will later, when I have some time. :p
 
Don't mind me. I just love science, and learning about what's going on in the world. I get that you were making jokes. I just want to see what's *actually* happening now, and how aviation is being impacted by climate change.

I haven't read that PDF, but probably will later, when I have some time. :p

It is a fascinating topic. I've been reading everything I can on it for about 12 or more years, now. Read "Unstoppable Global Warming...Every 1,500 Years" by Fred Singer.

Here's another interesting read:
http://www.stanford.edu/~moore/Climate_of_Fear.pdf
 
I'm sure glad that Al Gore invented global warming. Just think how cold it would be otherwise.
 
The climate has been changing since the earth was formed. To think man has anything to do with it is pure arrogance.

Changes in solar activity and intensity have more to do with earth's climate than anything we do. If the sun farts, we are nothing but a flaming marshmallow hurtling through space.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/04/11/sun-emits-largest-solar-storm-of-2013

What to drive a MMGW alarmist nuts? Tell them science is still studying the issue, and it is not settled science. To anyone that believes that science has concluded MMGW is settled knows nothing about science. They believe in the religion of MMGW.

Let it be clear that I'm not aboard the latest version of the liberal "green" bandwagon... despite the obvious diminishing polar ice and other alarming trends in climate, I think we've just been enjoying a fairly cool period on this planet since the last Ice Age, and now the planet is just going through some changes, as it has many times before. I also remember climate experts in the 70s shouting that our emissions would plunge us into another Ice Age by the turn of the century, due to the blocking of solar energy due to smog, etc. :rolleyes:

But I do see some merit in at least posing the question: Could humanity's output of gaseous carbon be a contributing factor? We definitely have the potential to do significant global damage, with emissions and all forms of pollution; heaven knows we have made great strides in decimating smaller ecosystems, and they are all interdependent to some degree... so I think the debate is worth having. And building our energy future on a resource that is effectively finite (fossil fuel) is just plain stupid. At some point, we will run out, and have to sit and wait a few million years for more of the stuff... doesn't seem like a good plan to me.

Personally, I think our contribution to global climate change, if any, is minimal... so far. But world population is still growing, average lifespan is increasing, and even the Third World is demanding more and more resources of every kind. Meanwhile, if there comes a winter or two with no ice at either pole, major ocean currents could shut down... at which time, we are basically screwed. That, more than any part of the climate change scenario, scares the bejeezus out of me. Still not convinced it's our fault, not by a long shot, but it's a very serious problem. We need to do more about that than argue about whether climate change data is real, or whose fault it is.

"The Environment" is worth caring about even if the only species one cares about is homo sapiens... the idea that our sheer cleverness and techno-power will guarantee our survival (because we are not part of the system like any organism) is pure hubris, IMHO. We are literally in the same boat as trees and cockroaches and all the rest.
 
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