Glider pilot bails out

More common than other kinds of flying. The chutes are designed to be a fairly comfortable back pad for the more lounging seat orientation of most sport gliders. I've also heard some folks say it makes them feel more comfortable because they feel the risk of a mid-air is higher given they may be thermalling with another glider.
 
We wear parachutes for a few reasons:

1. We fly often in gaggles and the risk of mid-airs is high.

2. We fly unusual attitudes often and the airframe is under much more stress than the usual straight and level in GA. A 60 degree bank for sailplane pilot is not unusual.

3. Unexpected flight into IMC. Most sailplanes are ill equiped for this and the consequences are usually bad outcomes.

4. Comfort. They provide a great back-cushion in our tight cockpits.

I personally know sailplane pilots who have survived a mid-air and and in-flight breakup.

So yes, we wear these pretty much routinely. I've never flown on a sailplane without one.
 
Zeldman said:
Self ejecting.??

Was the automatic ejecting system not working.??

Am I missing something here.??
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You are...

Gliders use a natural ejecting system - your arms and legs!

This is a 2 stage process. Getting out of the plane and opening your chute.

Checklist: (order edited as per recommendation)
1. Release canopy
2. Release seat belt
3. Bail out

4. Look
5. Reach
6. Pull
 
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NealRomeoGolf said:
Wonder what went wrong to make him bail.
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He deployed the engine. My Daughter is a member of Willamette Valley Soaring Club and was there. He had just bought the motor glider. The recommended thing to do is take a few tows before using the engine to get a feel for the new plane. He did that. On his second or third flight he deployed the engine but didn't start it. But something went wrong. She said it can have a significant impact on the relationship to CG.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Is it normal to wear a parachute while gliding (or motorgliding)?
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Yes, it’s common.

As others have said, yes. most gliders the seats are built as just a fiberglass shaped backing because they are assuming that you wear a backpack or backpack+seat style parachute as your padding for the seat.

Almost Everyone I know around my glider port is wearing a parachute when they fly their personal gliders.

another Interesting difference of Glider vs airplane flying is the (reduced) visual separation distances we are comfortable flying with, In a thermal or alongside. It’s okay because we are all flying (relatively) slow, but that same separation distance you’d never do that in an airplane unless you were Formation Flying.
 
I've owned a motorglider in the past and here's the procedure to do an air start:

1. Make sure you are above an airport or field you can land on.

2. Never extend the engine unless you are 1500 ft above where you identified your landing spot.

The glider looks like an older model with a glide ratio of 35-40:1. With the engine deployed it probably becomes an old hang glider (10:1 glide ratio) which is why you want to be high before you extend the motor.

I've landed my old motor glider with the motor fully extended and not running. It's no big deal if you are high. He probably either got himself too low, or freaked out when he could not start the motor. I suspect the latter, because jumping out of a sailplane at low altitudes is not for the faint of heart.

For those interested in this topic, modern sailplanes (50:1 glide ratio) have evolved to make the above discussion moot. They have an electric motor with a prop in the front that folds up and aligns itself with the fuselage when you turn it off. You can start and turn off the motor at any time. You can also self launch with it. They're incredibly reliable and safe.
 
Stemme is the only glider with that nose propeller. Every other manufacturer of self launchers and sustainers still has the prop that extends up from the fuselage. Or there are some jet gliders were the jet engine is on an arm that extends from the fuselage. But Stemme is unique with the folding prop.
 
TwinWasp said:
Stemme is the only glider with that nose propeller. Every other manufacturer of self launchers and sustainers still has the prop that extends up from the fuselage. Or there are some jet gliders were the jet engine is on an arm that extends from the fuselage. But Stemme is unique with the folding prop.
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Sorry but you're behind the 8-ball. Most glider manufacturers are now building FES (Front End Sustainer) models and some self-launch.

Check out this video:
 
Himayeti said:
We wear parachutes for a few reasons:

1. We fly often in gaggles and the risk of mid-airs is high.

2. We fly unusual attitudes often and the airframe is under much more stress than the usual straight and level in GA. A 60 degree bank for sailplane pilot is not unusual.

3. Unexpected flight into IMC. Most sailplanes are ill equiped for this and the consequences are usually bad outcomes.

4. Comfort. They provide a great back-cushion in our tight cockpits.

I personally know sailplane pilots who have survived a mid-air and and in-flight breakup.

So yes, we wear these pretty much routinely. I've never flown on a sailplane without one.
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#3. When we commonly disregard 91.155 we are in IMC and a chute isn’t going to save us from a mid air with an airplane.
 
The guy who taught my first groundschool was a competition glider pilot. I told my mother he had the state altitude record for gliders, she asked "high or low?"

Of course, this was the guy who bloodied himself with a bowling ball during a physics lecture.
 
Clip4 said:
#3. When we commonly disregard 91.155 we are in IMC and a chute isn’t going to save us from a mid air with an airplane.
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I don't know any glider pilots who fly into IMC knowingly. I have heard of ones that have entered it inadvertently, had a mid air breakup, and survived.

https://fearoflanding.com/accidents/accident-reports/glider-breaks-up-pilot-lands-on-hospital/

As for parachutes and mid airs, read on:

https://www.tahoedailytribune.com/news/all-involved-survive-mid-air-crash/
 
Himayeti said:
You are...

Gliders use a natural ejecting system - your arms and legs!

This is a 2 stage process. Getting out of the plane and opening your chute.

Checklist:
1. Release seat belt
2. Release canopy
3. Bail out

4. Look
5. Reach
6. Pull
Click to expand...

The canopy should ALWAYS be released before releasing belts. This is common in the aerobatic world, and ensures that the pilot can physically release the canopy before bailing out. Aircraft loading may put the pilot in a state where they are unable to release the canopy if not strapped in (I.e. negative Gs or high side load).
It is good practice to have this routine down cold…every time one exits the airplane with a parachute, running through the bailout process (canopy, straps, bail, look, reach, pull with both hands) can be very beneficial to solidify good habits.
 
ilpilot said:
The canopy should ALWAYS be released before releasing belts. This is common in the aerobatic world, and ensures that the pilot can physically release the canopy before bailing out. Aircraft loading may put the pilot in a state where they are unable to release the canopy if not strapped in (I.e. negative Gs or high side load).
It is good practice to have this routine down cold…every time one exits the airplane with a parachute, running through the bailout process (canopy, straps, bail, look, reach, pull with both hands) can be very beneficial to solidify good habits.
Click to expand...

Good advice!
 
TwinWasp said:
Stemme is the only glider with that nose propeller. Every other manufacturer of self launchers and sustainers still has the prop that extends up from the fuselage. Or there are some jet gliders were the jet engine is on an arm that extends from the fuselage. But Stemme is unique with the folding prop.
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What about the Grob 109, and the Taifun? There's one of the later at my home base.
 
Clip4 said:
…a chute isn’t going to save us from a mid air with an airplane.
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Nothing will save you from a direct hit on the canopy, but a lot of the “mid airs” I hear about are wing/tail damage. One example, near Reno / Carson City, where a businesse jet sliced a Glider, the glider pilot parachuted out and survived.

https://www.avweb.com/briefs/jet-glider-collide-all-survive/

Check out the pictures of the damage intruding into the BizJet’s cockpit, crazy stuff.
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/?NTSBNumber=LAX06FA277AB

Side rant: “See and Avoid” was established as the norm back during fabric-covered Biplanes era. But in todays modern Jet speeds, “See and Avoid” just isn’t effective anymore, but is still the legal underpinning of our entire Airspace system.

IMG_7312.jpeg
 
Any idea where the wings went??

luvflyin said:
He deployed the engine. My Daughter is a member of Willamette Valley Soaring Club and was there. He had just bought the motor glider. The recommended thing to do is take a few tows before using the engine to get a feel for the new plane. He did that. On his second or third flight he deployed the engine but didn't start it. But something went wrong. She said it can have a significant impact on the relationship to CG.
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tonycondon said:
Any idea where the wings went??
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Unclear from the one picture, but likely removed at their detach points. (glider wings are removable for storage/transport into their trailer). now whether that removal was intentional after it was on the ground (eg for recovery/cleanup), or were ripped-off due to other forces, I can’t say. Fuselage seems to have some damage/tears where the wings would attach.

edit to add: the wing attach mechanisms are usually really strong, with overlapping carry-thru spars. I’ve not heard or know of these wings detach in-flight _except_for_ a case of improper assembly where they were not locked properly and later worked-loose in flight. Locking mechanism is supposed to be visually inspected in pre-flight, and during assembly the “best practice” is to usually get a second glider pilot to look and verify for you and do a “positive controls check” for all linkages, the they will “sign the closeout tape” (white viny gap-sealing tape, that is placed over the inspection hatch or wing root)
 
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Himayeti said:
I don't know any glider pilots who fly into IMC knowingly. I have heard of ones that have entered it inadvertently, had a mid air breakup, and survived.
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This was a thing in the 1930s. The only instrument was a venturi driven Turn&slip indicator. Now those wood and fabric gliders were slow and had a stable spin, so if things went to hell, you just spun out of the bottom of a cloud. Eventually, people realized that there was no performance gain to be had and glider flight in IMC became something one would do to prove that it can be done.
 
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Lindberg said:
What about the Grob 109, and the Taifun? There's one of the later at my home base.
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Those are gliders in name only. In germany, austria and the UK, you are able to fly them with an endorsement to the glider license. Getting a PPL for 'single engine land' was prohibitively expensive, but getting the endorsement in your club was not. Also, you can land a powered glider at an airfield permitted as a gliderport whereas you may not be able to land a SEL.
I believe they are required to demonstrate a 1:20 glide with the engine off and the Taifun was able to do that. Other touring motor gliders like the Grob109 or the SF25 really dont have the performance to fly in anything but the largest thermal.
 
ChopAndDrop said:
Side rant: “See and Avoid” was established as the norm back during fabric-covered Biplanes era. But in todays modern Jet speeds, “See and Avoid” just isn’t effective anymore, but is still the legal underpinning of our entire Airspace system.
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It probably has less to do with modern jet speeds than with the pilots’ willingness to learn to look for traffic.
 
weilke said:
Those are gliders in name only. In germany, austria and the UK, you are able to fly them with an endorsement to the glider license. Getting a PPL for 'single engine land' was prohibitively expensive, but getting the endorsement in your club was not. Also, you can land a powered glider at an airfield permitted as a gliderport whereas you may not be able to land a SEL.
I believe they are required to demonstrate a 1:20 glide with the engine off and the Taifun was able to do that. Other touring motor gliders like the Grob109 or the SF25 really dont have the performance to fly in anything but the largest thermal.
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Not sure what you mean by "gliders in name only." What other qualification is there? The Taifun and G109 both have better glide performance than a 1-26, for instance. What's the difference between these and the Stemme TMGs, identified above as gliders?
 
Himayeti said:
I don't know any glider pilots who fly into IMC knowingly. I have heard of ones that have entered it inadvertently, had a mid air breakup, and survived.

https://fearoflanding.com/accidents/accident-reports/glider-breaks-up-pilot-lands-on-hospital/

As for parachutes and mid airs, read on:

https://www.tahoedailytribune.com/news/all-involved-survive-mid-air-crash/
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Once a glider violates the cloud rules they are in IMC and they do this too often.

INSTRUMENT METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS (IMC)- Meteorological conditions expressed in terms of visibility, distance from cloud, and ceiling less than the minima specified for visual meteorological conditions.
 
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This was the first thread I checked after software update. One guy's posts are really negative. Then I realized the update had logged me out. When I signed back in, his posts were gone. I had blocked him years ago. LOL.
 
Lindberg said:
Not sure what you mean by "gliders in name only." What other qualification is there? The Taifun and G109 both have better glide performance than a 1-26, for instance. What's the difference between these and the Stemme TMGs, identified above as gliders?
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I am saying that 99% of the time a Grob 109 is in the air, the propeller is turning. The only time it would fly as a glider is if someone says: You know, on paper, this thing is a glider, today we have really brutal thermals, lets see if we can keep this brick in the air without power.'

The Grob 109 is a 2 seat SEL that during acceptance testing, on a good day, with the wings freshly waxed, and with the examiner slightly squinting, managed to demonstrate a better than 1:20 glide ratio and a minimum sink of 1m/s. As such, it qualified as a motor-glider under the then applicable german certification rules. It was somewhat popular with clubs and a few private owners because it was actually a comfortable 2 seater with a bit of room for luggage. Our club had two. One was a 109A* the second a 109B which we operated from the late 80s to the mid 90s.

The difference to a S10 or S12 is that the Stemme with the prop retracted has the glide ratio of a modern performance glider (1:50 to 1:53 minimum sink 0.5m/s). You you can take off under power without a ground crew, retract the prop, fly as a glider for hours and head home under power if you have to pee or run out of thermal activity. It's predominantly a glider that happens to have a motor to aid in independent glider ops.



* Reportedly an epic turd that was underpowered and due to a faulty wing profile unable to maintain altitude with any kind of raindrops on the wing.
 
weilke said:
I am saying that 99% of the time a Grob 109 is in the air, the propeller is turning.
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Yep. A lot of these “motorglider” (non-retractable propellers) were/are a work-around for pilots who Lost their Medical. They were the only option for that demographic before LSA.

for an example, look how they are advertised: “no medical required!”
I call them “cheater airplanes” because, like Weilke said, the prop is always turning on those “touring motorgliders”.

now a good electric self-launch or FES I’d be really interested In those If more affordable. my glider instructor had one, could self-launch on electric, battery capacity was only good for a few thousand feet altitude then you have to Glide.

the other really good use for them is Training at glider fields where they don’t have good towplane or to augment/relieve the Towplane‘s workload. You can do many practice “final glide / approach to landing” with a student, having the “go around” capability that unpowered Gliders do not.
 
ChopAndDrop said:
Yep. A lot of these “motorglider” (non-retractable propellers) were/are a work-around for pilots who Lost their Medical. They were the only option for that demographic before LSA.

for an example, look how they are advertised: “no medical required!”
I call them “cheater airplanes” because, like Weilke said, the prop is always turning on those “touring motorgliders”.

now a good electric self-launch or FES I’d be really interested In those If more affordable. my glider instructor had one, could self-launch on electric, battery capacity was only good for a few thousand feet altitude then you have to Glide.

the other really good use for them is Training at glider fields where they don’t have good towplane or to augment/relieve the Towplane‘s workload. You can do many practice “final glide / approach to landing” with a student, having the “go around” capability that unpowered Gliders do not.
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You missed a few other advantages of FES self launching gliders:

1. You can take off from any airport. Just put the glider in your trailer and take it on vacation - no towplane required!

2. Maintenance costs are next to zero on these. They're incredibly reliable.

3. Safety. You hinted at that. These are gliders that can do go-arounds and that you can light up at any phase and or altitude while in flight. They even climb well at 10K ft.

So yes, FES gliders are the future of soaring.
 
prelim report says both wings found ~200 feet from fuselage. main pin still in the fuselage carry through box.
 
We shut off the engine and feather the prop on just about every flight over here
 
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