Girl taken off flight for crying too much

alaskaflyer

alaskaflyer

Final Approach
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http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070121/COLUMN01/701210459/1008/NEWS02?page1

Elly started to cry and wouldn’t stop. Nor would she sit down — she plopped herself down on the floor in front of her seat and proceeded to throw a temper tantrum.

“I was trying to console her and the stewardess came over and said, ‘Did you buy that seat for her?’ remembers Ms. Kulesza, 31, who is four months pregnant. “I said yes, and she told me my daughter needs to sit in it. I told her I was trying.”

Moments later, an AirTran Airways employee armed with a walkie-talkie addressed Mr. Kulesza.

“Sir, you need to get her under control,” she said.

“We’re trying,” Mr. Kulesza noted.

The passengers, meanwhile, were quite understanding and one of them offered the toddler a lollipop, which she rejected. Then the walkie-talkie woman returned to the Kuleszas’ aisle and displayed the raw tact and diplomacy of Donald Trump.

“Sir, you need to get off the plane,” she announced.

“What?” a stunned Mr. Kulesza asked. “Are you serious?”

“Sir, you need to get off the plane now.”

They got off the plane, while their luggage and car seat flew on to Boston. In the terminal they were directed to an AirTran supervisor, who told the couple that the stewardess was uncomfortable “because you have an unruly child who struck a woman on board.”

Mr. Kulesza was incredulous. “That was her mother,” he explained. “She hit her on the arm. Lady, this is a 3-year-old child we’re talking about.”

“Sir, we don’t differentiate between 3 and 33,” the AirTran supervisor replied. Mr. Kulesza said the woman proceeded to lecture him about child discipline, and how she would never tolerate her children behaving in such a manner, at which point Mr. Kulesza said, “You really need to stop talking now.”
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I don't mean this as a troll - I really don't - but I am the stereotypical guy who is always sitting directly in front of this girl - usually on a red eye flight. "The passengers were quite understanding"? Yeah, right. Sure, for every one that was offering a lollipop there were three who would gladly offer to spank her or lead her to her new seat in that little coat closet in first class.

I know, I know...karma... :eek: Just feeling in an evil mood today ;)
 
I agree. Get them all off the plane. Children can be controlled, easily, it just takes a parent who is not afraid to punish their child when they misbehave. Maybe the movie theaters are next. Would be nice to see a movie without hearing a screaming kid that the parent is doing NOTHING about.

Get 'em off the airlines, get 'em out of the theaters. Teach parents that physical punishment works.

I think a letter congratulating the airline's deicison is in order.
 
Hmmm...I almost agree. What I blame M & D for in this case was not taking themselves off the plane. You can't always prevent a meltdown in public, whether your child is well-disciplined or not. What you can do is prevent the torture of many hapless souls by not subjecting the general public to your child's continuing meltdown. That is a trend I've seen in the past 10-20 years - along with public cell phone conversations ;)

I just thought the story was amusing. I realize it is mostly out of a parent's hands. Noise-canceling stereo headphones - don't leave home without 'em!
 
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I love kids, but had one incident I won't forget. Day trip out and back in a nice business suit, window seat. After I got settled, Mom put her tot in the middle seat and she sat on the aisle. No hi, no nothin.

Junior began to act up shortly after takeoff. I tried to play a little, but he wasn't having any of it. Mom tried a thing or two, then pulled out a package of peanut butter crackers and gave them to him :eek:

I mentioned a couple times that I understood her plight, but wouldn't that food get all over? 'Finally, I gave up and beaconed the flight attendant--asked for another seat. 'Course, there wasn't one. So, I got peanut butter crackers all over my right sleeve and side of my suit. I just sat and fumed.

When getting off, flight attendant apologized and offered to have the suit cleaned. I just walked off. Was afraid to say anything lest several expletives from my former life as a solder stream out!!

What fun!

Best,

Dave
 
Eamon said:
LOL, OK....... Do you have kids?
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Well, point taken - but if the kids aren't behaving, you're not being aggressive enough. It is possible to be physical without abusive. Unfortunately, today's society seems to not understand that and cries abuse anytime a child is struck.
 
SkyHog said:
I agree. Get them all off the plane. Children can be controlled, easily, it just takes a parent who is not afraid to punish their child when they misbehave. Maybe the movie theaters are next. Would be nice to see a movie without hearing a screaming kid that the parent is doing NOTHING about.

Get 'em off the airlines, get 'em out of the theaters. Teach parents that physical punishment works.
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Can you imagine the cries of "Child abuse" if they tried physical punishment in front of 200 people?

(Gotta be a flaming liberal in there somewhere. ;))
 
Three Cheers for Air Tran!!

Hip HIP HOORAY!!

Hip HIP HOORAY!!

Hip HIP HOORAY!!

I am so tied of parents who cannot control their kids. If the kid is acting up, remove them from the restaurant, movie, airplane, etc. If the kid does not behave GO HOME!
 
I will likely get flamed for saying this, but, this is the kind of stuff that makes me glad I'm not having kids. That and the clips played from "super nanny" or whatever that show is...
 
smigaldi said:
I am so tied of parents who cannot control their kids. If the kid is acting up, remove them from the restaurant, movie, airplane, etc. If the kid does not behave GO HOME!
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Um, I believe that is what they were attempting to do at the time...
 
SkyHog said:
I agree. Get them all off the plane. Children can be controlled, easily, it just takes a parent who is not afraid to punish their child when they misbehave. Maybe the movie theaters are next. Would be nice to see a movie without hearing a screaming kid that the parent is doing NOTHING about.

Get 'em off the airlines, get 'em out of the theaters. Teach parents that physical punishment works.

I think a letter congratulating the airline's deicison is in order.
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I agree, and I'm the father of three, (now all married), and I helped to raise two others. None of them have been jailed yet

It all begins the first time they "act out" . If you are afraid to be a parent, it only gets worse. but if you show a firm, and controlling manner,
it doesn't go further.

They are kids, and they are "TESTING" your resolve to make them behave the way you want them to. They will push every single limit they feel they can push, till you show them ...OK that's the way you want to behave? This is the consequence!

Sorry .... A time out, with mommy holding you ..... IS NOT a consequence!
It's what they want... Attention!!
A reddened tush .....IS a consequence!
It's called "punishment" for a reason.

The Oxford Dictionary defines Punishment as :
noun:
1 the action of punishing or the state of being punished.
2 the penalty imposed for an offence.
3 [SIZE=-1]informal[/SIZE] harsh or rough treatment.
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Now before you all get the wrong idea, I'm not for beating a child.
However, a little applied "heat", on their derriere at an appropriate age, never deranged one.
The Oxford Dictionary defines derriere as:
noun: the fleshy part of the human body that you sit on
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{BTW..} I heard on the news today, that a NJ legislater, has submitted a bill, copied from one in Calif., that makes it a crime to spank a child under the age of three....
NEEDLESS TO SAY....PARENTS HERE ARE IN AN UPROAR

(The Bill submitter is single, and childless, as was the Calif. woman who proposed theirs.)
 
I am truly blessed to have a fantastic kid so never had that problem. But lets all remember here there is a difference between a kid being a brat and a kid crying. Kids cry for lots of reaons pain being a big one. I hate being stuck near a misbehaving kid but oh do I feel for that parent whos childs ear are bing squeezed on approach. Having your kid in pain and not being able to do anything about it is HORRIBLE.
 
AdamZ said:
I am truly blessed to have a fantastic kid so never had that problem. But lets all remember here there is a difference between a kid being a brat and a kid crying. Kids cry for lots of reaons pain being a big one. I hate being stuck near a misbehaving kid but oh do I feel for that parent whos childs ear are bing squeezed on approach. Having your kid in pain and not being able to do anything about it is HORRIBLE.
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Oh yeah, Adam, I agree wholeheartedly, I'm talking about tantrums.

And a side point I was making was parents who don't leave public places when their kids cry, for any reason. My parents taught my sister right away to do it right. When my niece started crying while my sister was having a conversation with us, my sister kept talking and my mom interrupted. She said "Take the child out of the room before we continue, or leave the house. That is just rude."

It stuck
 
No flames, Elizabeth. I think there's a fair number of us who don't want kids (myself included). It's just that some people think there's something wrong with that so we tend to be quiet about it, making it seem like there's fewer of us than there really are.

Chris
 
woodstock said:
I will likely get flamed for saying this, but, this is the kind of stuff that makes me glad I'm not having kids. That and the clips played from "super nanny" or whatever that show is...
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Right there with ya... Especially after having just this weekend been to my girlfriend's friend's daughter's third birthday party (extravaganza? circus? unmitigated disaster?)... uh... oh man, am I with you. I mean, I'm a pretty calm, easy-going guy, but a dozen or so 2 and 3 year olds amassed in a suburban townhouse, all at once, fairly late on a Friday evening... Oh good God.

Fortunately, the GF is of the exact same feeling/"life plan" (man that sounds corny) as I. She even didn't scold me for my... uh... level of intoxication... at the party; she was only upset about the fact that she drove, and thusly couldn't partake in any libations herself. Thank the Good Lord in Heaven the dad has good taste in scotch, is all I have to say, or I'd likely still be in the hospital receiving treatment for self-mutilated ears. :hairraise:

(P.S. After hearing it so many times, if I ever hear the phrase "inside voice" ever again in my life, I just might lose it.)

(P.P.S. I have all the respect in the world for all you parents out there... I don't know how you do it. Maybe I'm just too selfish to "get" it or whatever, I dunno, but there's no way I could ever make the sacrifices that y'all do every day.)
 
SkyHog said:
I agree. Get them all off the plane. Children can be controlled, easily,
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This coming from a guy who has to fetch his belongings from the backyard after the dog drags them out.
j/k. HAHA I had to say it Nick. :goofy:
 
AdamZ said:
...But lets all remember here there is a difference between a kid being a brat and a kid crying. Kids cry for lots of reaons pain being a big one. I hate being stuck near a misbehaving kid but oh do I feel for that parent whos childs ears are being squeezed on approach. Having your kid in pain and not being able to do anything about it is HORRIBLE.
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Oh yeah... I agree here too....

But how do you get a child off the plane when descending???
IOW.... this plane, hadn't yet left the gate.
Which, is why I too, applaud the crew.

If your kid is sick, you really shouldn't be flying with them.

Not all flights carry pediatric surgeons... should one be required...:rolleyes:

If the kid is a known brat..... There's always the German Butcher shop...
Show 'em what happened to other *"Brats" :rofl:

(OH I'm hot today....):D




*(Bratwurst)...ground up sausage meat stuffed into a (condom like) sleeve.




.
 
woodstock said:
I will likely get flamed for saying this, but, this is the kind of stuff that makes me glad I'm not having kids. That and the clips played from "super nanny" or whatever that show is...
Click to expand...

Amen sister! You can add me to the list who doesn't have, nor does she want kids.

A comment on the story, I have very little tolerance for screaming kids (tantrums that is). But, I do have a smidge of tolerance if the parent is trying to control the child, or has the good sense to remove the child from the scene of the tantrum. But only so long as it takes for them to get the child away from me! I used to get livid when in uniform the parent tries to use me as some sort of control tactic, ie "If you don't behave, I'll have the officer arrest you." I usually nicely explain to the child that I don't arrest kids, I arrest grown ups. Usually made for a very nasty look from the parent. :dunno: :D

Good thing the incident happened before they left the ground. At least they had the option of taking them off the plane.
 
ausrere said:
Amen sister! You can add me to the list who doesn't have, nor does she want kids.
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I wonder if a higher proportion of pilots would be on that list than the general population. After all, we have both the time and the money to fly. Many parents have neither. The perceived risk is also a possible factor. Parents have somebody to leave behind, so they tend to be a bit more risk averse.
 
The high concentration of kids is one reason why I don't like trade shows in Orlando. Most are well behaved, but there always seems to be just a couple of them on the plane that ruin it for everyone else.
 
I've got four of my own, and have reared six.

Never had a problem such as described. Let the beatings begin early, and you don't suffer problems later. (They can work the rest out, in therapy!)

JKJKJKJK!:eek:
 
you know, the funny thing is, knock on wood - I've never been bothered by a kid on a flight. I've sat near a few even - if they are more than say 3 seats away, the noises on the plane tend to drown them out anyway. unless they are REALLY screaming I guess. which I have not experienced.

I'd have to say it would be tough to be a parent on a flight.
 
SkyHog said:
I agree. Get them all off the plane. Children can be controlled, easily, it just takes a parent who is not afraid to punish their child when they misbehave. Maybe the movie theaters are next. Would be nice to see a movie without hearing a screaming kid that the parent is doing NOTHING about.

Get 'em off the airlines, get 'em out of the theaters. Teach parents that physical punishment works.

I think a letter congratulating the airline's deicison is in order.
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Nick, how many children do you have? If you don't have any, your opinion is worthless. I say that with the full admission that all the BS I thought before I became a parent was worthless too.

Now, I agree that children should be disciplined and controlled. That said, my 3 year old, who is very well behaved 99.44% of the time, will occasionally throw a tantrum that is not responsive to ANYTHING. Reward/punishment/pain have no effect. This is usually when she's very tired and lasts at the most 15 minutes. Our pediatric practice has a child psychiatrist on staff, and he assured me during a group Q&A session that it's normal, up until age 5, for children to occasionally "brain lock" like that, and until they come up with a safe sedative for children patience is the only strategy - Benadryl does not work quickly enough, and in some patients actually makes them more hyper.

Now, to the case in point. A parent does have the responsibility for the child, and if it were me I would have taken my own child off the airplane, just as I once took her out of a restaurant when it was clear that she wasn't going to settle down. None of us were there, so it's wrong to assume that this was a case of bad parenting. The airline did the right thing in taking the folks off the flight, and the wrong thing in trying to educate them in childrearing.
 
HPNFlyGirl said:
Speaking from experience Chip? Benedryl is good stuff.
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You betcha. It's a tip I picked up from James McMurtry.

"We're gonna strap them kids in give 'em just a little bit o' Benadryl
And a cherry coke we're goin' to Oklahoma. Gonna have us a time"
 
Ok - my opinion is worthless. Remember, as a non father (yet) I am on the other end of people's tantruming kids.

Also remember, that I have seen many children raised from the womb to about 5 years old and with the strict technique, none of them had these "Brain Locks." Funny that these brain locks didn't happen in the 50s when physical punishment was more popular.

FWIW - many child psychiatrists are the ones causing most of the problems, so I don't put much into their opinions.

Time out. Awesome.
 
Ha! I would of told that little girl that if she didn't shut up, I would shove her in the luggage compartment! If it were my friends little boy, he would instantly shut up, because he wouldn't have any doubt that I woudn't do it and then make everyone laugh at him about it! Fear and humiliation is the best discipline! :)

Luckily I'm not a teacher because I would be sooooo fired!
 
woodstock said:
you know, the funny thing is, knock on wood - I've never been bothered by a kid on a flight. I've sat near a few even - if they are more than say 3 seats away, the noises on the plane tend to drown them out anyway. unless they are REALLY screaming I guess. which I have not experienced.

I'd have to say it would be tough to be a parent on a flight.
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I've been similarly lucky... No uncontrollably bratty kids screaming next to me. I did once sit next to a couple with a very young infant who did cry for a portion of the flight, but it was relatively tolerable, and there's really no blame to be meted out there anyway.

Not to threadjack, but the worst experience I've had was arriving late to a Southwest flight from San Diego to Midway. I was the very last person on the plane, and the only seat open was the aisle seat next to two very much in love and very much overweight individuals. I'll let you draw your own picture (and yes, it got almost as bad as one could imagine), but needless to say, I spent the duration of the flight leaning very much into the aisle, a result of both lack of space, and attempting to avoid the flying elbows involved in all the pawing.

Needless to say, I'd have gladly accepted another seat next to a screaming kid over that any day.
 
ReverendSlappy said:
I've been similarly lucky... No uncontrollably bratty kids screaming next to me. I did once sit next to a couple with a very young infant who did cry for a portion of the flight, but it was relatively tolerable, and there's really no blame to be meted out there anyway.

Not to threadjack, but the worst experience I've had was arriving late to a Southwest flight from San Diego to Midway. I was the very last person on the plane, and the only seat open was the aisle seat next to two very much in love and very much overweight individuals. I'll let you draw your own picture (and yes, it got almost as bad as one could imagine), but needless to say, I spent the duration of the flight leaning very much into the aisle, a result of both lack of space, and attempting to avoid the flying elbows involved in all the pawing.

Needless to say, I'd have gladly accepted another seat next to a screaming kid over that any day.
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there is someone for everyone.
 
SkyHog said:
I agree. Get them all off the plane. Children can be controlled, easily,

Get 'em off the airlines, get 'em out of the theaters. Teach parents that physical punishment works.
Click to expand...

Obviously you don't have kids. It'll be interesting how your theories
work out. Physical punishment does not work .. it just teaches that hitting
and violence is ok. I can recall my daughter having a few melt downs at
that age. I sure never needed to strike her.
 
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SkyHog said:
Ok - my opinion is worthless. Remember, as a non father (yet) I am on the other end of people's tantruming kids.

Also remember, that I have seen many children raised from the womb to about 5 years old and with the strict technique, none of them had these "Brain Locks." Funny that these brain locks didn't happen in the 50s when physical punishment was more popular.

FWIW - many child psychiatrists are the ones causing most of the problems, so I don't put much into their opinions.

Time out. Awesome.
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I'm actually with Mr. Metzinger on this one. I haven't the slightest clue what I would do in the same situation -- though clearly leaving the plane is the most sensible solution, in my mind -- and I'm not so eager to judge these parents as being bad ones based solely on a (fairly shoddily written, IMHO) news story.

And while I somewhat share your skepticism of child psychologists' abilities, I am similarly doubtful that corporal punishment is the singular panacea-ish tonic that you may or may not believe it is. Alas, I don't plan on ever finding out for sure either way, so take that for whatever it's worth.
 
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