Gila Bend, AZ Plane Down - 1 dead, 1 injured

[John Spartan]

No details really yet but the press is glomming onto the experimental status clearly not knowing that doesn’t mean unsafe.

Gila Bend Municipal Airport plane crash kills 1, injures another

Authorities are looking into what caused a plane to crash at the Gila Bend Municipal Airport, killing one of the two people on board.

www.fox10phoenix.com

 

[sourdough44]

Looks like an ultralight, how were the winds at the time?

 

[John Spartan]

Yep. Video this morning. Looks like a tricycle moveable wing setup. Rainy Saturday so I expect YES to winds.

 

[FormerHangie]

That's a light sport trike, uses a hang glider style wing and is steered with weight shift, two axis control only. They're usually bought complete as an SLSA, but I suppose you could take one into ELSA rules. They're definitely not something you'd want to fly in a lot of wind or turbulence.

 

[Daleandee]

I may be mistaken but it appears there is a ballistic parachute. If so, it obviously wasn't deployed:

 

[FancyG]

I may be mistaken but it appears there is a ballistic parachute. If so, it obviously wasn't deployed:

View attachment 126909

Fuel tank?

 

[Daleandee]

Fuel tank?

Can't be certain but it appears to possibily to be a unit from BRS:

 

[FancyG]

Can't be certain but it appears to possibily to be a unit from BRS:

View attachment 126910

That's interesting, didn't know they existed.

What's the benefit for something that can glide that slow on its own?

I get not wanting to hail a Cirri into terrain at its slow-flight speed, but wouldn't a chute on an ultralight bring it down faster than deadstick with more momentum/greater injury potential?

 

[Daleandee]

That's interesting, didn't know they existed.

What's the benefit for something that can glide that slow on its own?

I get not wanting to hail a Cirri into terrain at its slow-flight speed, but wouldn't a chute on an ultralight bring it down faster than deadstick with more momentum/greater injury potential?

Mostly they would help in a loss of flight control or strucural failure of flight surface(s).

If the pilot were to become incapacitated a non pilot passenger could use the chute to get down safely. It also helps with loved ones when you're trying to convince them about buying and/or riding in a light aircraft ...

 

[FormerHangie]

Fuel tank?

That is a BRS. I'd guess that the pilot was trying to land and lost control. To land a trike you fly it close to the ground and throttle back. If his ground track would put a significant side load on the landing gear the carriage could flip, or if he dragged a wingtip this would be the end result.

 

[3393RP]

That's interesting, didn't know they existed.

What's the benefit for something that can glide that slow on its own?

I get not wanting to hail a Cirri into terrain at its slow-flight speed, but wouldn't a chute on an ultralight bring it down faster than deadstick with more momentum/greater injury potential?

Boris Popov, inventor of the ballistic recovery system whose acronym became the de facto descriptor of all such devices, was a hang glider pilot that became a hero to those in the sport that owe their survival to him.

Before the BRS, we had a parachute in a throw bag velcroed to the front of our harness, which depended on a seeing eye toss through broken aluminum tubing, stainless steel cables, and fluttering Dacron to save one's life. It didn't always work.

Whole Aircraft Rescovery Parachute Systems | BRS Aerospace

BRS Aerospace is the world leader in Whole Aircraft Recovery Parachute Systems with more than 37,500 delivered, resulting in over 478 lives saved.

brsaerospace.com

 

[Bill]

Before the BRS, we had a parachute in a throw bag velcroed to the front of our harness, which depended on a seeing eye toss through broken aluminum tubing, stainless steel cables, and fluttering Dacron to save one's life. It didn't always work.

Look, grab, pull, look, throw. What they didn’t tell you was the last step, pray.

 

[wanttaja]

That's a light sport trike, uses a hang glider style wing and is steered with weight shift, two axis control only. They're usually bought complete as an SLSA, but I suppose you could take one into ELSA rules. They're definitely not something you'd want to fly in a lot of wind or turbulence.

The accident aircraft was a "Grandfathered" ELSA; licensed in the period where ultralights could receive an Experimental Light Sport Aircraft certificate upon application. It's listed in the FAA records as "Experimental Reg. Prior to 01/31/08". It's actually the largest single type of aircraft in the Light Sport world.

The interesting thing about them is that the aircraft could be licensed WITHOUT MEETING ANY STANDARDS. Didn't have to comply with EAB's "50 percent rule", nor the ASTM standards developed for other types of Light Sport Aircraft. Just had to convince a DAR that the plane met the Light Sport requirements stated in 14CFR Part 1.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Daleandee]

The interesting thing about them is that the aircraft could be licensed WITHOUT MEETING ANY STANDARDS. Didn't have to comply with EAB's "50 percent rule", nor the ASTM standards developed for other types of Light Sport Aircraft. Just had to convince a DAR that the plane met the Light Sport requirements stated in 14CFR Part 1.

Ron Wanttaja

Yep ... my first Sonex was certificated as an Experimental Light Sport. We also had a couple of Challengers on the field that were done the same way.

 

[Agronomist]

That's interesting, didn't know they existed.

What's the benefit for something that can glide that slow on its own?

I get not wanting to hail a Cirri into terrain at its slow-flight speed, but wouldn't a chute on an ultralight bring it down faster than deadstick with more momentum/greater injury potential?

From my experience watching them land at Oshkosh... They are hauling! Every time I've watched them I remark that the landing looks frightening and FAST. It could just be perception though compared to the other craft on the ultralight strip.

 

[Hengelo]

I’ve learned more from this thread than I ever expected. This forum, wow.

 

[wanttaja]

Yep ... my first Sonex was certificated as an Experimental Light Sport. We also had a couple of Challengers on the field that were done the same way.

At the time, I was tempted to find a Fly Baby partially completed, and finish it as an ELSA.

There are two RV-10s on the rolls as Grandfathered ELSAs. I expect it's just a records glitch, but sometimes I wonder.....

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Daleandee]

At the line, I was tempted to find a Fly Baby partially completed, and finish it as an ELSA.

There are two RV-10s on the rolls as Grandfathered ELSAs. I expect it's just a records glitch, but sometimes I wonder.....

Ron Wanttaja

The Sonex did fit the regulations in place at the time and my thinking was that because of the 16 hours ELSA repairman's course that registering it as such would make it more valuable when it was time to sell it.

I have heard that a couple of RVs were listed that way and have read some info on how it was done. If it's legal it has to be nearly crushing the regs and the limit of 1320lbs gross would make it a single person plane ...

 

[Craig Valentine]

I don’t recognize what trike this is but it’s likely very well made with the structure of the wing, wheel pants and BRS. Most likely it has 100 HP Rotax engine, an excellent engine and is a Light Sport. This is not a cheaply made, thrown together aircraft.

I flew trikes for about 1200 hours and it was a remarkable experience. Flew across the US five times and to all the lower 48 states in August of 2012, so these are quite capable aircraft.

My condolences to the families and friends of the pilot and passenger.

 

[wanttaja]

The Sonex did fit the regulations in place at the time and my thinking was that because of the 16 hours ELSA repairman's course that registering it as such would make it more valuable when it was time to sell it.

I have heard that a couple of RVs were listed that way and have read some info on how it was done. If it's legal it has to be nearly crushing the regs and the limit of 1320lbs gross would make it a single person plane ...

I see eight RVs (including the two RV-10s) listed as Light Sport, not counting RV-12s, of course. One, an RV-8, is even listed as a Special Light Sport Airplane (e.g, supposedly sold as a ready-to-fly aircraft). Again, I suspect this is just a paperwork glitch, and that most of these planes have Airworthiness Certificates in the aircraft that show Experimental Amateur-Built.

Of those eight RVs, five initial airworthiness dates of 2008 or earlier, which meant they COULD have been submitted prior to the expiration date of the "Grandfather" clause. Two are RV-9s, which probably were best suited for it.

Friend of mine back then had an Emeraude (already licensed as EAB) and developed diabetes. He took the wheel pants and spinner off his airplane, lightened it up a bit, and declared that the airplane qualified as Light Sport under the definition of Part 1 and flew happily during until his passing several years ago (natural causes). No doubt the estate sold the airplane complete with the spinner, wheel pants, and all the other stuff removed. No doubt someone with at least a BasicMed certificate is flying it now.

Next two editions of Kitplanes magazine will have articles based on my statistical analysis of Light Sport accidents. What surprised me was the fact that the Experimental Light Sports had a fairly low accident rate...better than EABs, in fact.

But...there are a lot of factors here. First, of course, many of the ELSAs are very light aircraft that the owner can easily pick up and transport home after an accident...and thus never make it to the NTSB records.

Second, recall that the vast majority of Experimental Light Sport Aircraft got their certificates via the Grandfather aspect...

Many of the planes in the "Grandfathered" category had already been flying for years at the time they were converted to ELSAs. Their first flights, and any test period, was long behind them. About 50% of EAB accidents occur on the first flight or within the first 40 hours, and many of these new ELSAs were past that.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[FancyG]

Boris Popov, inventor of the ballistic recovery system whose acronym became the de facto descriptor of all such devices, was a hang glider pilot that became a hero to those in the sport that owe their survival to him.

Before the BRS, we had a parachute in a throw bag velcroed to the front of our harness, which depended on a seeing eye toss through broken aluminum tubing, stainless steel cables, and fluttering Dacron to save one's life. It didn't always work.

Whole Aircraft Rescovery Parachute Systems | BRS Aerospace

BRS Aerospace is the world leader in Whole Aircraft Recovery Parachute Systems with more than 37,500 delivered, resulting in over 478 lives saved.

brsaerospace.com

So hang gliders suffer enough in-flight breakups to warrant parachutes/BRS's?

Yikes!!!

 

[wanttaja]

So hang gliders suffer enough in-flight breakups to warrant parachutes/BRS's?

Yikes!!!

That was the case ~40 years ago, when Popov invented the ballistic chute. Back then, people were building hang gliders with only slight knowledge of aeronautics, using things like electrical conduit.

Things have improved since then, but it *is* nice to have an alternative to riding it down.....

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Hang 4]

The BRS for hang gliders is pretty much a thing of the past. They worked fine, but there was some danger for the launch crew as you needed to pull a safety pin that prevented the rocket from activating. Once pulled you essentially had a rocket aiming at you if you were on a side wire for an assisted windy cliff launch. if I recall correctly, there were a couple of inadvertent activations. They were also very expensive and HG pilots are generally even cheaper than GA pilots.

As far as why you need a chute in an HG, there are two main things. 1. Inadvertent breakup of a main spar. 2. A "tumble" where the glider pitches end over end and that usually results in #1 happening. The reason neither is a big deal is how that happens. Nearly all inflight incidents result from 2 other things. 1 Aerobatics and 2. Flying in bad weather.

Aerobatic pilots usually fly with 2 parachutes. Having said that, there are very few aerobatic pilots. Here's a good video of a successful deployment. HG aerobatics chute deployment This video is good example of why I don't do aerobatics in my HG.

I was in a cross country competition a few years ago that involved a deployment. A pilot got sucked into a cloud and got spatial D. The glider tumbled and broke up. He successfully deployed his chute and landed without incident.

Both of those risks involve choices made by pilots. You can chose to not fly aerobatics and you can choose to stay well clear of "cloud suck", which is basically when the lift goes well into the cloud vs tapering off as you get closer. If you climb rate is increasing as you get closer, fly away. Follow those two rules and you're extremely unlikely to have to deploy. I put my hand on the deployment handle every time I fly for the muscle memory, but in about 1,000 logged hours, I've never been in a situation where I considered needing to use the chute.