Giant and frequent ForeFlight downloads

arnoha

arnoha

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arnoha
Well, I knew the change in frequency of FAA charts was going to affect the size of downloads, but, sheesh, 16 GB each month is quite a pile of bits. I really wish ForeFlight would do something more intelligent than just re-downloading the entire package when it's out-of-date. Not a huge deal for most if you're on some fixed Wi-Fi. But what if you're barely getting 3G out somewhere and need a new chart? Diffs are a great solution that has been a solved problem for decades.

And why don't they tweak it so that download works when you're using the iPad for something else? Tying up the iPad for this is also very annoying. Other EFBs have figured it out.

OK, rant over.
 
arnoha said:
sheesh, 16 GB each month is quite a pile of bits.
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Wow.

Even the aera 660, which I consider a pretty bad offender of poor download/update implementation, is only ~2GB.
 
You thought about conversing with FF over this nugget of wisdom? I know it does take more effort than complaining on social media.
 
How many maps are you downloading? I have all VFR/IFR for US and Canada and am only a 9 gig download. Honestly I don't even need that 95% of the time and could cut down on the areas I keep downloaded.
 
I don't know yet if it will be feasible to do delta compression on the 56 day sectionals. If the graphics can be compared then they could do incremental updates, but it's likely their code doesn't support that yet as it's used to only seeing a new sectional every 6 months. Although they could already have been doing that on the enroute charts if they wanted to.
 
As someone stuck on rural broadband, I feel your pain. I have to plug in my ipad, leaving foreflight on and start the downloads before going to bed at night. Sometimes it errors out/doesn't finish by morning.
 
How do you guys do the COVID work from home thing, what with all that noise every time you dial up on the modem? ;)
 
GRG55 said:
How do you guys do the COVID work from home thing, what with all that noise every time you dial up on the modem? ;)
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And with 2% remaining your teen kid uses the rotary dial phone to call their friend and terminates the download.
 
woodchucker said:
And with 2% remaining your teen kid uses the rotary dial phone to call their friend and terminates the download.
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It's even worse when it's not your kid, but the other family on the party line...
 
I download only the information that I need. Most airports, even podunk ones have decent wifi. And, even if my VFR charts are outdated, I'm not concerned too much for VFR flight. Approach plates and the like, then I'm a little more concerned.

I cannot watch a video or even stream music on my internet at home. Its faster to do it via cell service. I know all about slow internet.
 
midwestpa24 said:
How many maps are you downloading? I have all VFR/IFR for US and Canada and am only a 9 gig download. Honestly I don't even need that 95% of the time and could cut down on the areas I keep downloaded.
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Everything. Because I can. Why not? So, yeah, the list is excessive. If I were planning a specific flight and had limited bandwidth, clearly I'd be careful about what I downloaded. However, it's indicative that the smaller set should also be smaller than it ends up being. This is a solvable problem and it's frustrating that it hasn't been.

chartbundle said:
I don't know yet if it will be feasible to do delta compression on the 56 day sectionals. If the graphics can be compared then they could do incremental updates, but it's likely their code doesn't support that yet as it's used to only seeing a new sectional every 6 months. Although they could already have been doing that on the enroute charts if they wanted to.
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We'll see. Granted, I believe this is the first cycle of the new frequency. So, maybe they'll be more motivated to put something in. Diffs and deltas are a solved problem. It's particularly easy for FF, as they have a very finite set of diffs to manage. They could easily be precomputed for the most likely cases (some number of past revisions to the current one). Even without knowledge of the data domain, unless the data is random or encrypted (and it's neither), a diff is possible. And knowledge of the data domain, as we have here, can improve the algorithm chosen.

What I don't know is what it would do for battery life. Might help it, as the radio would be used for a shorter period of time. Might hurt it, as it would take more CPU and memory time to unpack the data. Not sure where that balance would end up. It's definitely possible that if you have very wide pipes available, it would be faster without the diff because of the time spent in the CPU applying the diff. I know that's not true for me, though. I don't have the narrowest pipes, but I only get about 7 MBps up here on my microwave link.

EDIT: Oh, though on battery life, because you must have the screen on to reliably do this download in FF, I'll bet whichever one takes less time in your situation. The screen is a huge drag on the battery and I'll bet its effect dwarfs the other ones.
 
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arnoha said:
Well, I knew the change in frequency of FAA charts was going to affect the size of downloads, but, sheesh, 16 GB each month is quite a pile of bits. I really wish ForeFlight would do something more intelligent than just re-downloading the entire package when it's out-of-date. Not a huge deal for most if you're on some fixed Wi-Fi. But what if you're barely getting 3G out somewhere and need a new chart? Diffs are a great solution that has been a solved problem for decades.

And why don't they tweak it so that download works when you're using the iPad for something else? Tying up the iPad for this is also very annoying. Other EFBs have figured it out.

OK, rant over.
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Fiber optic internet with unlimited downloads. Oh Yeah baby
 
Datadriver said:
Fiber optic internet with unlimited downloads. Oh Yeah baby
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I wish. It's not available to all of us. My community of about 200 homes was considering breaking with the utility companies and running our own fiber up the hill. But the cost would be in the $1-2M range. And that's if we get access to the poles and don't have to bury. Assuming about half join, 100 households trying to pay a $1M bill is a tough sell just for internet. Maybe Starlink will help; we'll see.
 
And here I thought I had a problem with my iPad mini 5...suddenly my Foreflight downloads are too big to fit. Now it makes sense.
 
arnoha said:
I wish. It's not available to all of us. My community of about 200 homes was considering breaking with the utility companies and running our own fiber up the hill. But the cost would be in the $1-2M range. And that's if we get access to the poles and don't have to bury. Assuming about half join, 100 households trying to pay a $1M bill is a tough sell just for internet. Maybe Starlink will help; we'll see.
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Yes, I suspect someone in my area will ruin the unlimited-downloads good times for the rest of us by setting up some kind of a server or maybe something illegal.
 
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