Getting ready for multi checkride - grill me!

MauleSkinner said:
Standard day would be 23.2105 (prior to rewrite), but it’s not applicable to all airplanes…

edit: 23.45 looks like the current reference

Nor is Critical Engine windmilling…it can be feathered if equipped with an autofeather system that’s proven reliable. Unfortunately I can’t find the reference now, because I can’t figure out how to navigate historical FARs.
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Thanks! Got it now!

Yeah it's technically take off config (23.149(b)(5) pre-rewrite) - which is unfeathered for normies and feathered for those with autofeather.
 
kaiser said:
Yeah it's technically take off config (23.149(b)(5) pre-rewrite) - which is unfeathered for normies and feathered for those with autofeather.
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I probably over-emphasize that, but I’ve had some, um, “interesting” discussions with management over whether I could MEL autofeather in an E90 that had a prop mod that made autofeather a required piece of equipment.
 
And the travel air that began this thread is not a Part 23 airplane. That's a fun side at discussion with the MEI candidates. There are only four criteria for a CAR3 twin to determine VMC:

Max takeoff power
Aft CG
Flaps Takeoff
Gear up
 
tonycondon said:
And the travel air that began this thread is not a Part 23 airplane. That's a fun side at discussion with the MEI candidates. There are only four criteria for a CAR3 twin to determine VMC:

Max takeoff power
Aft CG
Flaps Takeoff
Gear up
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Yes, and I can't imagine ever being able to afford a part 23 twin. Car 3 for me. :)
 
When did it switch CAR 3 to Part 23?
 
Looks like March 3, 1973 so it would only be new models (not units?) certified after that. So what, Diamonds? Anything else that had initial certification after that date?
 
MIFlyer said:
Looks like March 3, 1973 so it would only be new models (not units?) certified after that. So what, Diamonds? Anything else that had initial certification after that date?
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Makes me wonder what the right answer will be (or mention both?). It’s easy for me as I’m in a DA42, so definitely Part 23 plane.

Speaking of, I flew it for the first time. I don’t think the friction lock is very good. I was fiddling with the props and throttle A LOT today. Also taxiing is very strange.
MIFlyer said:
I believe all planes should be twins…. Lol, I’m in love.

175 kts at 55% at 15 gph

Holy crap is it fun

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I agree!
 
tonycondon said:
And the travel air that began this thread is not a Part 23 airplane. That's a fun side at discussion with the MEI candidates. There are only four criteria for a CAR3 twin to determine VMC:

Max takeoff power
Aft CG
Flaps Takeoff
Gear up
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Obviously there was some configuration for the dead engine that was used, however, and I’d guess some bank was used, as the later reg limits rather than requires bank.
 
kaiser said:
[snip]
Speaking of, I flew it for the first time. I don’t think the friction lock is very good. I was fiddling with the props and throttle A LOT today. Also taxiing is very strange.

I agree!
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I thought it was odd that the DA-42 NG doesn’t have prop sync. With the FADEC it would be a software mod. In the PIper twin I find I do have to fiddle with props & throttle a bit to get synched.

What’s odd about taxiing? I didn’t find it odd other than just how effective and useful differential power is for taxi. But I’d spent the prior week flying a DA-40.
 
jsstevens said:
I thought it was odd that the DA-42 NG doesn’t have prop sync. With the FADEC it would be a software mod. In the PIper twin I find I do have to fiddle with props & throttle a bit to get synched.

What’s odd about taxiing? I didn’t find it odd other than just how effective and useful differential power is for taxi. But I’d spent the prior week flying a DA-40.
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My DA42 is a Lycoming one - negative FADEC. The prop on this plane's #2 definitely drifted from 2480-2520. Or the instructor kept messing with it - that could be. I liked him but we're still figuring out how to communicate with each other.. "set 25" - 25 inches or 2500 rpm? "yes" o_O

Taxiing on this plane is a bit weird. LOTS of resistance to overcome turning left - right feels average compared to other airplanes. DA40 is nose-wheel castering... just use brakes!
 
kaiser said:
My DA42 is a Lycoming one - negative FADEC. The prop on this plane's #2 definitely drifted from 2480-2520. Or the instructor kept messing with it - that could be. I liked him but we're still figuring out how to communicate with each other.. "set 25" - 25 inches or 2500 rpm? "yes" o_O

Taxiing on this plane is a bit weird. LOTS of resistance to overcome turning left - right feels average compared to other airplanes. DA40 is nose-wheel castering... just use brakes!
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Yeah, that’s odd on the RPM drift.

I didn’t notice any difference turning left or right. Maybe power is asymmetric with left producing more thrust? Just a SWAG.
 
MIFlyer said:
… how to calculate accelerate stop, accelerate go, W&B, etc.
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-> including, calculating single engine climb performance (engine failure after take off).

Not only for oral exam …
For a light twin, a performance consideration for every takeoff.
 
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kaiser said:
Makes me wonder what the right answer will be (or mention both?). It’s easy for me as I’m in a DA42, so definitely Part 23 plane.

Speaking of, I flew it for the first time. I don’t think the friction lock is very good. I was fiddling with the props and throttle A LOT today. Also taxiing is very strange.

I agree!
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THANK YOU!! TAXIING and maintaining centerline on the runway are absolutely my garbage areas! It's so like being a new student pilot again who has to really concentrate on taxiing smoothly. :) Ps, lot of friction on my throttles, I may reduce that a bit as I think I'm used to very smooth force on the 172 and am finding more resistance here making it harder to advance them smoothly than it should be
 
MikeNY said:
-> including, calculating single engine climb performance (engine failure after take off).

Not only for oral exam …
For a light twin, a performance consideration for every takeoff.
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yes, moreso than any plane, figure out your accelerate go, accelerate stop, etc for every config and look at it vs the runway planned.
 
Book knowledge and systems is the easy part.

Know how to use the charts to calculate single engine ceilings and critical altitudes. Also be prepared for a scenario question about going single engine over the mountains. How high can you stay? Where do you have to head to avoid hitting a mountain? That kind of stuff. I got asked about Aspen, and the answer was spiral down and land because otherwise you are a smoking hole.
 
How is the prop governor on a typical single engine airplane function differently from a typical multiengine airplane?
 
OP, did you pass? I completed my Multi add on to my SEL commercial about 2 months back. I have an MEI ride coming up next week.
 
DenverJayhawk said:
OP, did you pass? I completed my Multi add on to my SEL commercial about 2 months back. I have an MEI ride coming up next week.
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HI, I got 5.5 hours of flight and 5 hours of ground in, and then ended up with a weeklong flu bug and "life" and so I'm getting back to it in December or January.
 
MIFlyer said:
HI, I got 5.5 hours of flight and 5 hours of ground in, and then ended up with a weeklong flu bug and "life" and so I'm getting back to it in December or January.
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I am making a decision on a plane this week, so need to get this sorted...
 
MIFlyer said:
I am making a decision on a plane this week, so need to get this sorted...
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What plane are you deciding on? POA can help (spend your money)!
 
iamtheari said:
What plane are you deciding on? POA can help (spend your money)!
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Y’all might try to talk me out of it. Also considering forming a partnership on it. Talking to prospective partner today…


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MIFlyer said:
Y’all might try to talk me out of it. Also considering forming a partnership on it. Talking to prospective partner today…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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what is this "it" of which you speak??
 
MIFlyer said:
Y’all might try to talk me out of it. Also considering forming a partnership on it. Talking to prospective partner today…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Good luck. There are times when I think owning a twin is colossally stupid, but those thoughts are easily suppressed by flying the thing.
 
OP, good luck. The ME ride isn't that bad. Know the basic systems: Landing gear, Prop, Fuel, and Electrical. Make sure you know about VMC and can explain it. I don't know the ACS for the Private ME, but for Commercial ME add on, my ride consisted of: short field take off and landing, simulated engine out in the pattern, steep turns, stalls, slow flight, VMC demo, Engine out, feather, secure, and restart, and then single engine Instrument approach down to published mins with foggles and then Single Engine landing. The oral was really quick. Just some basic questions about VMC, systems, what is zero side slip and why you do it, and discussion about MULTIOPS relationship to VMC and Factors that determine critical engine.
 
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DenverJayhawk said:
OP, good luck. The ME ride isn't that bad. Know the basic systems: Landing gear, Prop, Fuel, and Electrical. Make sure you know about VMC and can explain it. I don't know the ACS for the Private ME, but for Commercial ME add on, my ride consisted of: short field take off and landing, simulated engine out in the pattern, steep turns, stalls, slow flight, VMC demo, Engine out, feather, secure, and restart, and then single engine Instrument approach down to published mins with foggles and then Single Engine landing. The oral was really quick. Just some basic questions about VMC, systems, what is zero side slip and why you do it, and discussion about MULTIOPS relationship to VMC and Factors that determine critical engine.
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Thanks Denver. I am planning for 2-3 more lessons and then I suspect I'll be ready for my ride. The more multi time, the better my insurance terms will be the first year, so it's OK if it's another 6-7 hours to get the level of proficiency I want for the checkride, then I'll plan another 25 or so hours of dual in mine to get time in type, build multi time, and start on IR.
 
DenverJayhawk said:
OP, good luck. The ME ride isn't that bad. Know the basic systems: Landing gear, Prop, Fuel, and Electrical. Make sure you know about VMC and can explain it. I don't know the ACS for the Private ME, but for Commercial ME add on, my ride consisted of: short field take off and landing, simulated engine out in the pattern, steep turns, stalls, slow flight, VMC demo, Engine out, feather, secure, and restart, and then single engine Instrument approach down to published mins with foggles and then Single Engine landing. The oral was really quick. Just some basic questions about VMC, systems, what is zero side slip and why you do it, and discussion about MULTIOPS relationship to VMC and Factors that determine critical engine.
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It seems like the oral has the most variation between examiners. Mine went much more in-depth into systems of the plane and we spent a lot of time with the performance charts. Not difficult stuff, trick questions, or a memory test, but if you come into it knowing how to find and use (and when to use) each of the performance charts you should be okay with those.
 
iamtheari said:
It seems like the oral has the most variation between examiners. Mine went much more in-depth into systems of the plane and we spent a lot of time with the performance charts. Not difficult stuff, trick questions, or a memory test, but if you come into it knowing how to find and use (and when to use) each of the performance charts you should be okay with those.
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great points. We also did performance charts but I prepared them ahead of time and showed the DPE the usual things and also single engine ceiling calculations
 
If the answer is always Bonanza, wouldn’t then the plane technically be “Twin Bonanza?”
 
Ok. Bumping this thread for a question / poll I have.

Today is my first scheduled checkride (Comm Multi Add on) after discontinuance. I have until 17 January. Oral is fully complete, we’ve done no part of the flight. Today TAFs are saying BKN025 with forecasted tops at 5-6k. As of now CIP/FIP is saying negative icing, and freezing levels would be near or right above the tops (Skew-T backs this up and indicates warmer air above and below).

Any thoughts on doing the ride in these conditions? We’d file to get above for air work, and bases should be high enough for single engine approaches/pattern work. Until now everyone has always advised me to only do checkrides fully VFR.

And yes, I’m probably suffering from some amount of finish-checkride-itis, but am interested in maximizing my success factor.

What says PoA?
 
Would you make this flight if it wasn’t a checkride?
 
Just to update everyone, I had to pause training and cancel my purchase due to some other things that need to get done in the next 6 months. I anticipate finishing my multi in January and then starting to peck away at IR in the club 172s.

I will come back to this thread prior to checkride. Thank you!
 
TCABM said:
Would you make this flight if it wasn’t a checkride?
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XC going into better weather and with the equipment I’m in, yes and I’d file for above the tops. I absolutely wouldn’t sit in it, don’t want to mess with ice. It is Great Lakes and we are rather moist. I am starting at KARR headed westbound so I’d get a cruise altitude quick.
Local? I’d stay under. I’m in Illinois, so nothing to hit except other airplanes above 1100 AGL.

I feel as if I’m solely managing the perception for the DPE but understand that a checkride is a unique mission with certain parameters different than a plain old local or XC flight.

eman1200 said:
WWCBGD
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?

texasclouds said:
Nope
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Any particular reason?
 
kaiser said:
everyone has always advised me to only do checkrides fully VFR.
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For commercial practical test, good advice.

kaiser said:
We’d file [IFR] to get above for air work, and bases should be …
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Check ACS (page 39), VI. Navigation tasks for ‘Pilotage and Dead Reckoning’, list of Skills to demonstrate.
For example …
Above clouds (without reference to the ground), how can applicant accomplish CA.VI.A.S2 and CA.VI.A.S5?
 
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