Get A&P license to maintain own Airplane

[LoLPilot]

First, I'm not trying to discourage you. The more the merrier.

But in mainstream aviation the link I provided is what I've personally seen. For experience: go to a 147 school, work at a FBO or Repair Station, or join the military. However, Modtster has a good point as in some areas, outside mainstream aviation, where schools/FBOs/RS are few and far between then things can be different. The same goes for one man Repair stations. That is the reason I stated "almost impossible."

Unfortunately, you "don't make a case to the FSDO" as you must follow what they require. So as I mentioned above, tomorrow, call your local FSDO and ask to speak to a maintenance ASI (Aviation Safety Inspector) and inquire what he/she requires for you to develop a log for recording maintenance experience toward getting your "authorization tickets" to take the General, Airframe, and Powerplant certificate tests. Then you will know exactly what you will need for that record. Report back with any questions.

FYI: I got my A&P test authorization tickets based on experience in a Repair Station many moons ago. Things have changed a lot since then. One of the main reasons the Feds are hesitant to accept experience logs outside the 147 school/FBO-RS/Military environments is that standalone mechanics normally do not offer all the "required mx disciplines" needed for obtaining an A&P. Just look at the study guides for the tests. Or, as I tell people, look over AC43.13-1B and see if your example of buying a rag and tube aircraft and working under an A&P will cover all the listed areas in the AC.

Good luck.

That’s very helpful, actually!

 

[mondtster]

That’s very helpful, actually!

If you're halfway seriously thinking about trying to get a mechanic certificate, just go to school for it. I would have put in far less time and effort doing it that way and there is no question that your experience will be accepted at the end of the time. You might be able to find night classes at a community college that would allow you to work a day job at the same time.

 

[Eric Lehto]

I just started down this path myself. The community college here has an FAA accredited A&P program. I'm about a month in to the first powerplant course. I'm stretched fairly thin, but it's doable. School runs from 0800 until 1315, M-F. Then I head in to work ~1400 until around 0000-0100. Wash, rinse, repeat for the next two years. Paid ~$750 for this semester's tuition and books. No lab fees, all tools provided by the school.

My reasoning for doing it is partially to do my own maintenance on my Sundowner, but mostly because it's something I've always wanted to learn and the price/timing was right. And the knowledge will come in handy down the road when it's time to build my own EAB.

 

[Bell206]

And the knowledge will come in handy down the road

You'll also be surprised how your A&P will crossover to other industries. Very few outside training programs include such a variety of skill sets as the A&P does. For example, years ago there was a dental equipment mfg'r in the PNW that offered a standing job offer to the top 10% at a CC A&P program at a wage that was 3x what a new A&P could make at an FBO. Another instance, when directional drilling was first being used, one of the original drillers only hired experienced A&Ps (5+ years) to service their equipment. Their motto was "whether 10,000 feet up or 10,000 feet down" it mattered to have the right mind set.

 

[Sundance]

All these posts are great, AP license, just like all FAA certifications, It’s a license to” learn! The price you quoted is fairly standard, nation wide, they need mechanics, period, welcome to the snap on experience, okay Mapco, Craftsman, Walmart, they all carry tools,that investment will amaze you, over time just the testing equipment, I for example looked for a retired mechanic, found one,news paper add, and got all I needed for about a quarter on the dollar, but even that was expensive. Where I really saved was on the tool box, I paid New price for that, but it was full of aviation tools, lots of elbow grease, and I had a nice set of tools. I do have my IA, at my FISDO every two years I have to attend 8 hours of training, I do owner assisted annuals, but not very often, mostly 337s and STC certifications, thru a local DER. You can save, but it will cost ya!

 

[Ian Pilot]

For me I am an LSRM-A which never expires or gets stale so if I become an A&P through a "shall issue" FSDO after 18 months for a single rating of waiting (even doing nothing) or 30 months I can always do some work as an LSRM to reinstate my currency as an A&P.
The biggest issue is the endless wait waiting for someone else. I waited 1 year for an engine overhaul and then 6 months for the shop to actually put it in. The endless wait on someone else is the most frustrating part of being a pilot and even with 3 planes I consider the availability of each to be at 50% at most because parts break and like a car mechanic friend of mine says airplane parts are ****, to not sugar coat it.
Once I am an A&P I am FREE from the reliance on less than reliable A&Ps or shops where teenagers posing as "repairmen" work on something that means life or death on me.
It doesn't make sense to be in a pilot and entrust a machine with your life if you can't touch it and make damn sure it works ok all by yourself. A stranger will never give it the level of care you will do.
Don't say to naysayers saying it is not worth it. People waste 10 times more time watching TV or wasting away their lives and here you can do something that profits you 100% personally.
Nevermind to also undermine the "rent seeking" nature of artificially high bars and regulations translating into high prices in terms of service or parts.
Even without exercising your A&P the negotiating power is orders of magnitude more if the shop knows you can do your own work yourself and you are not their hostage thanks to CFR 14 Part 43....

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

ok.....what is a "LSRM-A"?

For me I am an LSRM-A which never expires or gets stale so if I become an A&P through a "shall issue" FSDO after 18 months for a single rating of waiting (even doing nothing) or 30 months I can always do some work as an LSRM to reinstate my currency as an A&P.
The biggest issue is the endless wait waiting for someone else. I waited 1 year for an engine overhaul and then 6 months for the shop to actually put it in. The endless wait on someone else is the most frustrating part of being a pilot and even with 3 planes I consider the availability of each to be at 50% at most because parts break and like a car mechanic friend of mine says airplane parts are ****, to not sugar coat it.
Once I am an A&P I am FREE from the reliance on less than reliable A&Ps or shops where teenagers posing as "repairmen" work on something that means life or death on me.
It doesn't make sense to be in a pilot and entrust a machine with your life if you can't touch it and make damn sure it works ok all by yourself. A stranger will never give it the level of care you will do.
Don't say to naysayers saying it is not worth it. People waste 10 times more time watching TV or wasting away their lives and here you can do something that profits you 100% personally.
Nevermind to also undermine the "rent seeking" nature of artificially high bars and regulations translating into high prices in terms of service or parts.
Even without exercising your A&P the negotiating power is orders of magnitude more if the shop knows you can do your own work yourself and you are not their hostage thanks to CFR 14 Part 43....

 

[Juliet Hotel]

ok.....what is a "LSRM-A"?

Obviously its one level better than a LSRM-B.

 

[Bell206]

what is a "LSRM-A"?

It's supposedly the class of light sport under which they obtained their light sport repairman certificate (mx) with the "A" being for airplane. However, given the context of their 1st three posts they're either trolling or related to H 2020.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Good points....

 

[Ian Pilot]

It's supposedly the class of light sport under which they obtained their light sport repairman certificate (mx) with the "A" being for airplane. However, given the context of their 1st three posts they're either trolling or related to H 2020.

It is light sport repairman. Most A&P are so ignorant of this incredible and safer class of airplanes, some of them packing avionics not from the 1960s if you can believe that, that they sign up 337's and do "annuals" only to find out about the ASTM rules.

I have been in several LSAs and strangely starting the engine involves pushing a button... like a car. Amazing concept in 2020 huh?

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

call me ignorant....blissfully.

 

[idahoflier]

Most A&P are so ignorant of this incredible and safer class of airplanes

What makes them safer?

 

[Tarheelpilot]

@Ian Pilot at what hourly shop rate do you consider your airplane shop to be guilty of rent seeking?

 

[Bell206]

It is light sport repairman. Most A&P are so ignorant of this incredible and safer class of airplanes

Ha. If you mean light sport aircraft like a Piper J-3, Ercoupe 415, and Taylorcraft BC-12? Sure, they've been flying safe for decades. Now if talking about those new fangled SLSAs, then doubtful as they're barely safer than an E/AB aircraft. Then again I didn't spend 120 hours to get a LSRM-A or stay at a Holiday Inn Express...

I have been in several LSAs and strangely starting the engine involves pushing a button... like a car. Amazing concept in 2020 huh?

Funny thing is that cars and aircraft (like the ones above) have been using only a push button to start the engine since the 1930s. While I don't consider a 90+ year old concept to be "amazing" whatever floats your boat is fine by me.

 

[Salty]

Ha. If you mean light sport aircraft like a Piper J-3, Ercoupe 415, and Taylorcraft BC-12? Sure, they've been flying safe for decades. Now if talking about those new fangled SLSAs, then doubtful as they're barely safer than an E/AB aircraft. Then again I didn't spend 120 hours to get a LSRM-A or stay at a Holiday Inn Express...

Funny thing is that cars and aircraft (like the ones above) have been using only a push button to start the engine since the 1930s. While I don't consider a 90+ year old concept to be "amazing" whatever floats your boat is fine by me.

Yeah, those push buttons are much more advanced than a keyed ignition switch. Lol

 

[Snowmass]

Since I always have been a DIY fanatic I have done almost all the maintenance on my own airplanes for almost 70 years but under owner assisted route. This includes two Major IO-520 overhauls and so many cylinder replacements I have lost count, wooden spar replacements (and fabric too), several total repaints, skin replacements. I guess I relate well to mechanics and have always been able to find one that will work with me. I thought about going for the A&P but it is just so much cheaper and simpler to work with a mechanic. And working on airplanes is so much simpler and more pleasant than working on a late model auto it is actually fun. So consider my route to saving money. It could save you a lot on maintenance costs with less hassle.

 

[hindsight2020]

It is light sport repairman. Most A&P are so ignorant of this incredible and safer class of airplanes, some of them packing avionics not from the 1960s if you can believe that, that they sign up 337's and do "annuals" only to find out about the ASTM rules.

While reading up on the mx allowances of S-LSA and E-LSA, it strikes me that Repairman-Inspection would be a welcome addition to the EAB side for non-builders. Alternatively, a hopefully expanded definition of LSA in the future (MOSAIC or otherwise) and E-LSA by proxy, would be another welcome alternative to approach/attain inspection authority parity with builders on the EAB side. Certainly one of the few things I'm excited about in this hobby as I look to my future participation and transition. Cheers!

 

[akmetal]

Completely worth getting your A&P / IA, it’s not $1000 any more for an annual, mechanics are emboldened enough to start charging time and materials at rates of $120 hr. I was recently quoted 5-50k for an annual in anchorage ak by angle aviation

I strongly recommend getting your IA before buying a plane, I am now basicly grounded until I can finish mine

Don’t be scared about currency requirements, the FAA allows lots of things to count. The have continuing ed you can do now to maintain the IA, you don’t have to do a million annuals anymore to keep it

I submitted a foia request to get all 536 IA in my area but many are on time and materials and won’t give you a quote or fixed rate … yea no thanks, not interested in harming my family financially because the FAA is letting these guys fleece air craft owners.

 

[akmetal]

From your link.

Maintenance Records. This evidence or documentation, when required, could include records showing performance or supervision of aircraft maintenance, return to service (RTS) documents, and/or copies of maintenance record entries to determine the type of maintenance activity performed, considering any special expertise required. The quantity of maintenance activity demonstrates if the applicant was actively engaged."

That would seem to make the earlier comment by you less than accurate.



It does not take just any entry. It takes multiple entries in a quantity sufficient enough to convince the ASI. If your FSDO is accepting an insufficient amount then they are wrong.

There the govt and they are the ones running this dog and pony show. I could fly my plane with no certs if the FAA didn’t exist. Glad my FSDO is flexible and they keep people like you out of those jobs

It’s there desision to allow it

 

[akmetal]

First, I'm not trying to discourage you. The more the merrier.

But in mainstream aviation the link I provided is what I've personally seen. For experience: go to a 147 school, work at a FBO or Repair Station, or join the military. However, Modtster has a good point as in some areas, outside mainstream aviation, where schools/FBOs/RS are few and far between then things can be different. The same goes for one man Repair stations. That is the reason I stated "almost impossible."

Unfortunately, you "don't make a case to the FSDO" as you must follow what they require. So as I mentioned above, tomorrow, call your local FSDO and ask to speak to a maintenance ASI (Aviation Safety Inspector) and inquire what he/she requires for you to develop a log for recording maintenance experience toward getting your "authorization tickets" to take the General, Airframe, and Powerplant certificate tests. Then you will know exactly what you will need for that record. Report back with any questions.

FYI: I got my A&P test authorization tickets based on experience in a Repair Station many moons ago. Things have changed a lot since then. One of the main reasons the Feds are hesitant to accept experience logs outside the 147 school/FBO-RS/Military environments is that standalone mechanics normally do not offer all the "required mx disciplines" needed for obtaining an A&P. Just look at the study guides for the tests. Or, as I tell people, look over AC43.13-1B and see if your example of buying a rag and tube aircraft and working under an A&P will cover all the listed areas in the AC.

Good luck.

I had 2 letters from 2 IAs I worked under on my own plane, no detailed logs and that was enough. Unfortunately they are now retired.

The FAA can also waive the 3 year requirement for the IA as well so you can theoretically get your A&P and test for your IA right after if the FAA approves it.

Also it’s completely acceptable to do this solely to save money, you don’t need to make this into some kind of religious experience, if you feel the existing mechanics are a rip off and you want the cert, I don’t care how high and mighty they make themselves sound and how we are all going to crash our planes if we don’t hire them to lord their infinite wisdom over us, for time and materials at 120$ hr of course lol.

It’s all bull ****, it’s either a reasonably price md service or it’s not,

 

[Mikey52]

I had 2 letters from 2 IAs I worked under on my own plane, no detailed logs and that was enough. Unfortunately they are now retired.

The FAA can also waive the 3 year requirement for the IA as well so you can theoretically get your A&P and test for your IA right after if the FAA approves it.

Also it’s completely acceptable to do this solely to save money, you don’t need to make this into some kind of religious experience, if you feel the existing mechanics are a rip off and you want the cert, I don’t care how high and mighty they make themselves sound and how we are all going to crash our planes if we don’t hire them to lord their infinite wisdom over us, for time and materials at 120$ hr of course lol.

It’s all bull ****, it’s either a reasonably price md service or it’s not,

Just round figures, how much do you make a year? A freelance mechanic doesn't usually bill $120 per hour, but they can. And if they are working for someone else he is certainly not paid that.

The shops will bill that or more depending on their fixed cost. Hardly no one is in this for free.

 

[Bell206]

It’s all bull ****, it’s either a reasonably price md service or it’s not,

Its called supply and demand that regulates the price. But based on this thread and your previous thread seems you only have an axe to grind over the annual costs in your area. So instead of whining about it, sign up for the U of A mx program, get your certificate in 2 years, get your supposed "waiver" and get your IA. Then you can charge others $40 per hour or whatever you think is fair for their annuals.

Or you can go E/AB or LSA tormorrow and have it made. Then again you'll probably find something else to beech about.

 

[unsafervguy]

To do annuals you’ll need your IA as well as your A&P. You will need to wait for three years after getting your A&P to test for the IA and you will need 24 months of being actively engaged as well. That means full time work as an A&P. Then there are renewal requirements every two years which also require that you be actively engaged. So unless you plan on working as an A&P/IA full time, it makes no sense to even think about it.

show me the reg that says actively engaged means full time work? it ain't in there. as long as the person at the FSDO that signs you off is satisfied that you are actively engaged, no problem. I have never worked full time as an A&P, but they had no issue with approving my paperwork to get my IA.