General Aviation Maintenance - School Project Help

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Feli

Filing Flight Plan
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Jun 9, 2020
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Phil
Hello Folks,
I am working on a school project for my marketing class. I decided to do a project on General Aviation and need some help with some research questions. I appreciate if folks, who are airplane owners, can reply with their answers!
Questions:
  1. Do you, as an airplane owner, buy the airplane parts needed for maintenance and overhaul?

  2. If you as an airplane owner buy the parts, what methods do you use to procure airplane parts?

  3. If you as an airplane owner buy the parts, do you seek price discounts for these parts? How?

  4. If you as an airplane owner buy the parts, what do you find most difficult in the part procurement process? What would you improve?

  5. If you rely on your trusted MRO facility for maintenance and airplane parts purchasing, do you try to negotiate the cost of maintenance and parts?

  6. If you rely on your trusted MRO facility for maintenance and airplane parts purchasing, what do you leverage in your negotiation to get better pricing?
 
Hello Folks,
I am working on a school project for my marketing class. I decided to do a project on General Aviation and need some help with some research questions. I appreciate if folks, who are airplane owners, can reply with their answers!
Questions:
  1. Do you, as an airplane owner, buy the airplane parts needed for maintenance and overhaul?

  2. If you as an airplane owner buy the parts, what methods do you use to procure airplane parts?

  3. If you as an airplane owner buy the parts, do you seek price discounts for these parts? How?

  4. If you as an airplane owner buy the parts, what do you find most difficult in the part procurement process? What would you improve?

  5. If you rely on your trusted MRO facility for maintenance and airplane parts purchasing, do you try to negotiate the cost of maintenance and parts?

  6. If you rely on your trusted MRO facility for maintenance and airplane parts purchasing, what do you leverage in your negotiation to get better pricing?
 
Your questions are so off base for this industry. Maybe consider another industry you know something about?
 
Usually an owner is looking for one part, not thousands. Usually there is only one supplier. Doesn’t leave much room for negotiation.
 
In the aviation industry MRO typically stands for “Maintenance, Repair, Overhaul”.
 
1) Yup.
2) Depends on the part. Mostly mail order. Aircraft Spruce, Leading Edge Air Foils, Speedy Metals, Summit Racing, Mouser...
3) I may shop around a bit. Depends.
4) Shipping on large pieces of aluminum sheet sucks.
5,6) What's a MRO?
 
MRO is maintenance repair and operations. Basically any industrial company manages MRO for their plant operations. Hence the questions are based more from a sourcing perspective. To the OP, welcome to POA, where all questions will be met with derision. For GA, it's a mix. Many owners leave all maintenance, including parts sourcing to their mechanics. Others source themselves and have the mechanic do the wrenching. Lastly, some do the sourcing and the wrenching under the supervision of their mechanic. The difference in Aviation is that mechanics must be certified to work on certified aircraft.

For sourcing, there are a few large mail order/web suppliers; Aircraft Spruce is perhaps the best known. They supply to both Mechanics and Pilots. Mechanics get a discount and can choose to either pass that discount on or to make a bit of profit on it for the effort to do the sourcing.
 
Re-reading your questions - If you are looking at this from a strategic sourcing perspective, it's a tough nut. Many parts need to be certified and have single vendors. The pricing can appear to be outrageously high. Most GA planes are based on designs that are 50 - 60 years old and the manufactures have been through BK once. There is little leverage on the buyer side to exploit. For common parts like oil filters, there is some competition, but there is still the requirement to be an approved part, so you find pricing to be pretty much the same from vendor to vendor. Look up Beech Magnesium Ruddervators to understand why all the pricing power sits with the manufacturers.
 
This is the duplicate thread.
 
Lndwarrior said:
Your questions are so off base for this industry. Maybe consider another industry you know something about?
Click to expand...

What method do you use to gather information on subjects where you lack knowledge, other than asking questions?

I see one area where you exhibit considerable expertise and skill is being a dick.
 
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1: Yes
2: Major Aircraft part providers(Aircraft Spruce, Chief, Wag Aero), Speciality shops (Wings and Wheels, Craggy Aero), Hardware Vendors (Ace, True Value, McMaster Carr), Last resort, Dealer/supporting Manufactuer.
3: Yes, Comparison Shopping
4: Getting support and speciality parts from the Dealer Manufacturer. Requires Maintenance Agreement and overseas shipping along with significant backorders. Technically parts may be available practically they may not be.
5: NA
6: NA
 
As another had said - I usually source 'spruce and/or my A&P/IA (who usually just goes to Spruce as well).

I will occasionally use other vendors if I find a better price. Rarely is that the case, though.
 
Some pilots are also A&P mechanics, but many are not. Some airplane owners are also A&P mechanics, but many are not. I am married to someone who is both the owner of the "family plane" and also a A&P mechanic. He prefers to buy parts himself, but beyond that, to me the process is mostly shrouded in mystery and behind-the-scenes. He's the type to look for deals and discounts wherever he can, but I get the sense that most of the time things just cost what they cost, and aviation (where your life depends on it) is not the place to be cutting corners or cheaping out on parts.

On the flip side, there are sometimes frustrating times when you need a very simple part (like a little piece of metal with a hole in it), that isn't flight-critical, but the FAA mandates that it be certified, which means it's expensive, even though it's "just a little piece of metal" or some such and someone could just make it on a drill press.

I had also never heard of "MRO" before today. Sounds like a corporate org-chart thing. My husband and I are just individuals, who typically deal with maintenance shops that are also individuals (none of us has an org chart), and are typically buying just one of something, for one plane. It's not like we can buy in bulk for pricing "leverage" or anything like that.

Hope that helps,
 
kath said:
On the flip side, there are sometimes frustrating times when you need a very simple part (like a little piece of metal with a hole in it), that isn't flight-critical, but the FAA mandates that it be certified, which means it's expensive, even though it's "just a little piece of metal" or some such and someone could just make it on a drill press.
Click to expand...

FAR 21.9 allows the aircraft owner to make their own parts. That includes little pieces of metal with hole(s) in them. There have been dozens of articles discussing the ins and outs of this provision. You might want to take a look at some of them.

Jim
 
  1. Do you, as an airplane owner, buy the airplane parts needed for maintenance and overhaul? SOMETIMES. DEPENDS ON IF I USE THE SHOP ON THE FIELD OR GET MY A&P WHO WORKS OUT OF HIS TRUCK. WITH MY A&P TRUCK GUY, 50/50; WITH THE FIELD SHOP, NEVER.

  2. If you as an airplane owner buy the parts, what methods do you use to procure airplane parts? ONE OF THE BIG VENDORS ONLINE, LIKE SPORTYS, AIRCRAFT SPRUCE, MCFARLANE, ETC. SOMETIMES ITS AN OBSCURE VENDOR.

  3. If you as an airplane owner buy the parts, do you seek price discounts for these parts? How? I DONT. I SHOP THE BEST PRICE BY ONLINE SEARCH.

  4. If you as an airplane owner buy the parts, what do you find most difficult in the part procurement process? What would you improve? ENSURING I ORDERED THE PROPER LEGAL PART. A GUARANTEE FOR FREE RETURN AND REORDER OVERNIGHT SHIPPING WOULD BE LOVELY, BUT ABUSEABLE.

  5. If you rely on your trusted MRO facility for maintenance and airplane parts purchasing, do you try to negotiate the cost of maintenance and parts? NEGATIVE.

  6. If you rely on your trusted MRO facility for maintenance and airplane parts purchasing, what do you leverage in your negotiation to get better pricing? I DON’T. I BRING THE GUYS DONUTS AS A GOOD WILL GESTURE AND GET SOME FREE CONSULTATION TIME AND EDUCATION IN RETURN THAT MAKES ME A BETTER CUSTOMER AND OWNER.
 
At the risk of a slight thread drift, I'm always amazed at the depth of knowledge on this forum on areas outside of aviation. The threads on wifi routers go into technologies and acronyms that I am totally unaware of as reasonably tech savvy person. Having said that, I was really surprised that no one had heard of MRO. I worked a bunch in the chemicals and steel industries and it's a huge spend and a big topic. The total spend on MRO (just materials, not labor) can be well in the $100's of millions. Any company with a large component of manufacturing has this as well. There are technologies that are solely focused on managing this spend and the inventory associated with it.

No real point to this post, other than the observation.. and now I feel just a tiny bit better about not knowing all the ins and outs of wifi routers :).
 
Feli said:
Hello Folks,
I am working on a school project for my marketing class. I decided to do a project on General Aviation and need some help with some research questions. I appreciate if folks, who are airplane owners, can reply with their answers!
Questions:...
Click to expand...

Consider using Survey Monkey and posting the link for us to answer. Consider re-purposing the this thread for us to help you with anecdotal feedback to form your questions. Many here are willing to help a student explore aviation.

To answer these questions it's important to know what category aircraft are operated under, as the FAA dictates the rules. Under part 91 we can use "Owner produced parts" in special circumstances where the parts are essentially no longer available.
  • Part 91 is usually small planes/not commercial and most people here
  • Part 135 is non-scheduled charter and air taxi operations. Pilot for hire like sight seeing or chartered fishing trip flight, flight training, etc.
  • Part 121 is scheduled air carrier operations like the airlines
Each of these categories acquires parts in similar but different ways. This should be your first question.

Your second question should be aircraft type predominantly purchasing parts for:
  • Airplane – Single-engine land or sea or multi-engine land or sea.
  • Rotorcraft – helicopter or gyroplane
  • Lighter-Than-Air – balloons or airships
  • Powered Parachutes – land or sea
  • Weight-Shift-Control - land or sea (e.g.hang glider type)
With these first 2 questions you will be able to categorize the remainder of the questions/answers.
 
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NordicDave said:
Under part 91 we can use "Owner produced parts" in special circumstances where the parts are essentially no longer available.
Click to expand...

That's just not true. 21.9 mentions NOTHING about "no longer available". There can be a million of the part sitting on the shelf at Chief and I can still make one if I choose to.

Jim
 
3393RP said:
What method do you use to gather information on subjects where you lack knowledge, other than asking questions?

I see one area where you exhibit considerable expertise and skill is being a dick.
Click to expand...

...............................:yeahthat:...................................

Jim
 
NordicDave said:
Under part 91 we can use "Owner produced parts" in special circumstances where the parts are essentially no longer available.
Click to expand...
FYI: to add to the above, there are no useage/production restrictions to owner produced parts. Actually more 135/121 owner/operators use owner produced parts than 91 owners. Plus an owner can produce a part for any number of reasons to include lead time, price, or simply because they want to.
 
Well POA, Looks like we are gullible once again!

Same thread started twice by a new member (troll) with exactly 2 posts.

Mystery to me how/why someone gets their jollies posting a question and runs. Utterly useless endeavor.
 
I disagree with your evaluation. Trolls don't bother to construct polite and well thought out posts that ask for specific information.

I suspect there were two threads started simply because of unfamiliarity with the idiosyncrasies of POA forum software.

As for his departure, it was likely caused by the first reply to his post, which essentially called him a dumbass. Nice welcome to POA.

I was surprised by the consternation created by his use of the acronym MRO. It's common in industrial organizations, particularly in the airline industry. The OP probably picked it up while investigating that segment of the aviation world.
 
Feli said:
Do you, as an airplane owner, buy the airplane parts needed for maintenance and overhaul?
Click to expand...
Just curious... who else would? Do you buy the parts needed to maintain your car? Of course you do... you own it.
 
Ryanb said:
Just curious... who else would? Do you buy the parts needed to maintain your car? Of course you do... you own it.
Click to expand...
I see the question to be about sourcing. Your mechanic may buy the parts on your behalf. You paid for them, but you just paid for whatever your mechanic bought for you.
 
Salty said:
I see the question to be about sourcing. Your mechanic may buy the parts on your behalf. You paid for them, but you just paid for whatever your mechanic bought for you.
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s a fair point.
 
3393RP said:
I disagree with your evaluation. Trolls don't bother to construct polite and well thought out posts that ask for specific information.

I suspect there were two threads started simply because of unfamiliarity with the idiosyncrasies of POA forum software.

As for his departure, it was likely caused by the first reply to his post, which essentially called him a dumbass. Nice welcome to POA....
Click to expand...

Sad, but have to align my POV to yours. I remember a guy last year asking about buying a dream high performance plane to learn to fly and take his family on trips. 1st or 2nd reply was something like “you’ll kill yourself and your family too.” Ran the guy off in 3 posts. Very sad.

I like the fast pace and volumes of posts, but usually leave from time to time discussed with lack of basic civility sometimes displayed here.
 
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