gear up landing v tail in woodlake ca

beechcraft flyer

beechcraft flyer

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Aug 28, 2019
Messages
29
Display Name
Display name:
beech pilot
what happens if the faa determines that a pilot gear up landed his airplane with a passenger aboard no injuries is it a 91.13 violation ? does that pilot need to do a competency flight with the faa? what usually happens ?
 
beechcraft flyer said:
what happens if the faa determines that a pilot gear up landed his airplane with a passenger aboard no injuries is it a 91.13 violation ? does that pilot need to do a competency flight with the faa? what usually happens ?
Click to expand...
NTSB830 says:
Code: 
Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is
damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small punctured holes in the skin or
fabric, ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels,
tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips are not considered “substantial
damage” for the purpose of this part.
 
I gotta think, that pilot will be more bummed with themselves than dealing with a checkride.
 
I’d be more worried what my insurer would be doing if I gear up’d a V-tail bo. Then I’f be happy the V-tail didn’t fall of. Then I’d wonder how valuable the ruddervators are.
 
beechcraft flyer said:
what happens if the faa determines that a pilot gear up landed his airplane with a passenger aboard no injuries is it a 91.13 violation ? does that pilot need to do a competency flight with the faa? what usually happens ?
Click to expand...

Current FAA guidance recommends against performing a 44709 evaluation for a gear up landing. Typically the pilot will recieve counseling or perhaps documented instruction from a CFI.

As previously stated, the FAA are the least of his worries with regards to a gear up.
 
Gotta be the worst sound to hear. As you’re settling in ground effect. Waiting, albeit a bit longer, for the chirp of the tires..instead the jarring unmistakeable sound of metal and concrete…
 
Had a Comanche come into the shop. Settled into ground effect, heard the prop hitting, ADDED POWER STAYED AIRBORN, dropped gear and landed straight ahead (6000’ runway). Quite impressive I thought! Ground off half the anticollision light lens and a tiny bit of the flaps!
 
Not sure if there’s any ‘convention’ tooling around in a light aircraft. My procedure is NLT abeam the numbers in a regular pattern, or about 2 mile final with a straight in.

I will also add, the busier it is, or if distractions are present, the gear comes down earlier.

After that it’s the usual ‘GUMPS’ check, where all the letters apply to the gear. The rest matters much less.
 
I have a friend who did a gear up landing in a Mooney.

He missed some FAA deadlines and eventually lost his certificate.

My recollection is he now has to start from scratch to get a pilots certificate.

I don’t know the details; I suspect it is just a matter of not responding to the FAA in a timely way.

I had another friend who misheard a hold short instruction that he thought was a takeoff clearance and hit the brakes and nosed over when the tower told him to stop after he had crossed the hold short line.

It did not create a hazard because the pilot he was told to hold short for was a missed approach; but it could have been.

He too missed some deadlines and eventually his certificate was suspended.

He never flew again and died of a heart attack about five years later.
 
Vance Breese said:
I have a friend who did a gear up landing in a Mooney.

He missed some FAA deadlines and eventually lost his certificate.

My recollection is he now has to start from scratch to get a pilots certificate.

I don’t know the details; I suspect it is just a matter of not responding to the FAA in a timely way.

I had another friend who misheard a hold short instruction that he thought was a takeoff clearance and hit the brakes and nosed over when the tower told him to stop after he had crossed the hold short line.

It did not create a hazard because the pilot he was told to hold short for was a missed approach; but it could have been.

He too missed some deadlines and eventually his certificate was suspended.

He never flew again and died of a heart attack about five years later.
Click to expand...

Evading the FAA, or as you put it "missed some FAA deadlines" is not the same as someone who inadvertantly lands gear up.
 
Maybe they should put some curb feelers (runway feelers) on them things so they can hear them scraping before they get to the money part ... :D
 
I know a doctor that made contact with the runway and did a go around with some pretty significant damage ... not sure why someone would think going around in that situation is going to improve anything ... all he got out of it was seeing how Q-tip props operate.
 
Tools said:
Had a Comanche come into the shop. Settled into ground effect, heard the prop hitting, ADDED POWER STAYED AIRBORN, dropped gear and landed straight ahead (6000’ runway). Quite impressive I thought! Ground off half the anticollision light lens and a tiny bit of the flaps!
Click to expand...

This happened in a Pilatus at a large medevac company, except he took it around the patch and put the wheels down the second time around.
 
DavidWhite said:
This happened in a Pilatus at a large medevac company, except he took it around the patch and put the wheels down the second time around.
Click to expand...

Can you log it as a touch and go if something other than the wheels touch? Asking for a retract friend ...
 
Half Fast said:
Obviously we need more details. Was the pilot a physician?
Click to expand...

Nahh must have been a lawyer. Docs cant afford to fly as much nowadays. Most have become employed by hospitals as medical care becomes more socialized(t).

There was an article a while back that indicated the biggest fear of a BO is when a lawyer bought it.
 
Flying Doc said:
Nahh must have been a lawyer. Docs cant afford to fly as much nowadays. Most have become employed by hospitals as medical care becomes more socialized(t).

There was an article a while back that indicated the biggest fear of a BO is when a lawyer bought it.
Click to expand...

So do we need to start calling them fork-tailed lawyer killers?
 
beechcraft flyer said:
what happens if the faa determines that a pilot gear up landed his airplane with a passenger aboard no injuries is it a 91.13 violation ? does that pilot need to do a competency flight with the faa? what usually happens ?
Click to expand...
When I geared-up my Cardinal, insurance asked for one hour ground and one hour flight instruction, with focus on pre-landing checks. The FSDO agreed that was adequate retraining.

Paul
 
PaulMillner said:
When I geared-up my Cardinal, insurance asked for one hour ground and one hour flight instruction, with focus on pre-landing checks. The FSDO agreed that was adequate retraining.

Paul
Click to expand...
How is the Cardinal? In the air again? If so, how big a job was it?
 
Semi successful gear up landing at College Park, MD

Pilot was in a relatively flat attitude, the prop started hitting, he reacted immediately with nose up and full throttle, flew the pattern, extended the gear, and landed.

Not much of the tips were bent/ground off, but the hubs were in terrible shape, the prop tips could be moved in a circle about 4 inches wide. They also stayed in full fine pitch throughout the pattern flight and landing, due to internal damage.

I was at the airport, and was one of the bystanders who had an opportunity to move the blades around.

Since the plane was still flyable, I wonder if he reported to the FAA?

Naturally, I have no recollection of the date, N number, or pilots name.:) Suitable repairs were made, and he continued to fly that for years after.
 
It happened a couple years before I lived here, but at the annual fly-in at our airpark, a way old guy in an Aerostar was about to touch down gear up, scraped the props, powered ahead, and flew home some 70 miles away. The plane was posted for sale the next day stating “needs props” but no further details. There were still divots in the runway from both props up ‘til six years later when we had the asphalt topped.
 
I might make every other mistake in the book (and invent a few new ones), but at least a gear-up landing in my Beech is one mistake I'll never make.
 
Clecos.jpg
geezer said:
Since the plane was still flyable, I wonder if he reported to the FAA?
Click to expand...
There's no requirement for a report to the FAA even if you make a gear-up landing that leaves the airplane unflyable. The NTSB reporting requirements also exclude a "simple" gear-up landing.

At a towered airport, the tower will log it as an event, and it may make its way to the FSDO that way. But there's no pilot duty to report.
luvflyin said:
How is the Cardinal? In the air again? If so, how big a job was it?
Click to expand...
It was about a year total time from gear-up to ferryable... Then there was a six month wait for a berth in the sheet metal shop. :-( Still awaiting riveting labor there, though the new belly is all Cleco'd in place.

Clecos.jpg


Paul
 
PaulMillner said:
View attachment 117451
There's no requirement for a report to the FAA even if you make a gear-up landing that leaves the airplane unflyable. The NTSB reporting requirements also exclude a "simple" gear-up landing.

At a towered airport, the tower will log it as an event, and it may make its way to the FSDO that way. But there's no pilot duty to report.

It was about a year total time from gear-up to ferryable... Then there was a six month wait for a berth in the sheet metal shop. :-( Still awaiting riveting labor there, though the new belly is all Cleco'd in place.

Clecos.jpg


Paul
Click to expand...
Glad to hear she's gonna fly again. I got a soft spot for cardinals, used to own one.
 
TCABM said:
I’d be more worried what my insurer would be doing if I gear up’d a V-tail bo. Then I’f be happy the V-tail didn’t fall of. Then I’d wonder how valuable the ruddervators are.
Click to expand...

I'm in claims. If the cost to repair is anywhere near the insured value I'd total it and sell the salvage. The ruddervators are valuable but the kicker is the time and cost to fix the gear up. Insureds are becoming unhinged for year plus repairs after they gear up and we don't need the headache. Salvage goes together, we don't like selling individual parts and salvage buyers know what those vators' are worth so vtail salvage is hot right now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top