Garmin GDL 82 ADS-B

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HAPPYDAN

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HAPPYDAN
Has anyone installed the Garmin GDL 82 ADS-B out yet? I just heard about it through AOPA, and it sounds like a good, cost effective option in a small plane used for recreation only (LSA-i.e., Skycatcher, RV-12, or Legend Cub). Apparently, it installs between the transponder and GPS antenna. I wonder if that must be done by a certified mechanic, and what sort of inspections and/or certifications are also required? Not much info on the Garmin site.
 
I can only add a partial data point. While we were getting something else fixed (last month) they had just announced availability. While at the avionics shop I asked about it. He said he had several people lined up. His rough verbal quote kind of spooked me..as if it would take almost as much time as a Garmin Xpdr with ADS-B-out. That just didn't sit right with me as it should supposedly be less labor. Then again, no one had installed one yet so hopefully he is wrong. However he did comment that certain xpdr's and/or cable types might not work so well with the GDL82 (something about signal strength???) and thus it might not always be a quick and low labor solution.
 
Needs to be installed by an A&P (if it's not going into an experimental). Regarding installation costs, keep in mind besides installation of the unit (physical and wiring) that it must have a GPS antenna installed as well. This is one reason why I went with a new panel mount transponder, the installation costs were roughly the same.

I would still hold out hope for the uAvionix SkyBeacon...
 
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The quote I received for installation was what I thought was out of order. The mechanics of the installation look to be pretty simple.

But, If you look at the installation manual, they want you to do a pretty complete analysis of the entire electrical system, and a whole bunch of other items that do not seem really necessary. The entire manual looks like it was written to discourage anyone but dealers to install. I plan on getting it installed later this year.

I think G intends this product to be a way to get you into the dealer so they can sell you a full gtn750/gtx345 system..
 
craigh said:
The quote I received for installation was what I thought was out of order. The mechanics of the installation look to be pretty simple.

But, If you look at the installation manual, they want you to do a pretty complete analysis of the entire electrical system, and a whole bunch of other items that do not seem really necessary. The entire manual looks like it was written to discourage anyone but dealers to install. I plan on getting it installed later this year.

I think G intends this product to be a way to get you into the dealer so they can sell you a full gtn750/gtx345 system..
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Well, for sure they want the existing transponder system tested to verify that adding the GDL82 will end with a good result. I wouldn't attemp to install it without doing it as I may find that the transponder is bad, coax is bad, antenna or encoder is bad etc.

The electrical load analysis stuff is really immaterial. I don't know what plane you are flying but I could take a never seen before high wing cessna and do a complete electrical load analysis in about two hours. Or an installer could consider the change negligable and skip all that.
 
Thanks for the responses. IMO, I think it kind of stinks for us low altitude Sport Pilots sight seeing and chasing butterflies on weekends to suffer a multi-thousand dollar (unnecessary) upgrade to an otherwise capable LSA. But, it's the law.
 
I got a quote for 12-15 hrs. Won’t work for me since my transponder is out of support and knowing my luck, it would crap out the next day. A new transponder plus 82 might still be cheaper than a 345, but won’t give me anything on panel mount avionics.


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gtx 327's are going pretty cheap these days. I bought one for $300 a couple months ago. So if you are concerned about your transponder, you might reconsider.
 
FORANE said:
gtx 327's are going pretty cheap these days. I bought one for $300 a couple months ago. So if you are concerned about your transponder, you might reconsider.
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Informal discussions among those of us on a budget are very much interested in any relatively inexpensive solution. Not every pilot aspires to fly big fast planes in congested airspace, at night or in limited visibility. But, according to law, any aircraft with an electrical system must comply, regardless of intended use. Or at least that's the way we understand it.
(Edit)Um, just checked the web on the Garmin GTX 327. Is that ADS-B compliant? It looks like the Xponder already in a Skycatcher, which is not compliant.
 
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GTX 327 is Mode A/C. Definitely NOT ADS-B compliant.

I've got one in the RV, and one on the shelf I'm going to sell. It was just pulled from the Cardinal for compliance (GTX345 and WAAS upgrade to the 430).

Two done, 1 to go. The good news is the two that are done are co-owned, and the one I have to foot the whole bill for is a) experimental and b) already has 430W.
 
https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/research/airspace/
airspaceRequirements.png


So basically it looks like below 10k and outside of class B or C airports we will still not be required to have ads-b out after 2020.

I installed an echo-uat ads-b out device in my lancair recently and was 2020 legal. But, I was not happy with the performance of the unit based on a design of "sniffing" transponder output for altitude. It lacked a discreet serial input for the altitude encoder; it only had 1 single serial in for the transponder. Garmin transponders below gtx330 (I believe) can only feed serial out transponder data minus altitude info. Thus, errors are seen when the gtx327 transponder is not being pinged (to feed the data wirelessly to the ads-b unit). The garmin gdl82 unit also unitizes a sniffer for transponder data, but gets around this issue by pinging the transponder (at least this is what I read). Bear in mind I am not an expert or in this field so my understanding could be way off; the above is just based on my experience with the navworx ads600-exp then the echo-uat, and what I have read after experiencing issues with both those units.

A UAT is my preference. One that allows hardwire of serial data from both the transponder and altitude encoder separately will likely be one of my qualifications. Who knows, maybe garmin will be able to make the sniffer work by pinging the transponder. So far, I have been 0:2 with sniffers.

Ravioli said:
GTX 327 is Mode A/C. Definitely NOT ADS-B compliant.
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True dat, but they will work fine when coupled with a UAT that is 2020 ads-b out. 3 added bonuses: anonymous mode in 1200, cheaper 2 year transponder certifications, and cheaper replacements if your transponder goes belly up.
 
Thank you @FORANE for doing extensive testing for me.

IIRC your setup is similar to mine (GMA340, GNS430W, SL30, GTX327, GPSMAP696) and you've already tested two of the options I thought I would use.

22 months left to do something. (I'm based in rules airspace, under the DFW veil).
 
Ravioli said:
GTX 327 is Mode A/C. Definitely NOT ADS-B compliant.
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Not exactly, 327 works with the GDL 82 for ADSB out. That's the key feature of the GDL 82, it works with existing transponders.
 
Ravioli said:
Thank you @FORANE for doing extensive testing for me.

IIRC your setup is similar to mine (GMA340, GNS430W, SL30, GTX327, GPSMAP696) and you've already tested two of the options I thought I would use.

22 months left to do something. (I'm based in rules airspace, under the DFW veil).
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Mine is similar. 430w, 327, 496...
At this point I am leaning towards a garmin UAT. We'll see if other options are rolled out.
 
I've been looking at this too and emailed Garmin last week about the GDL 82. I have a Garmin GDL 39 and a KT78 transponder. I also have an Aera 510 that the GDL39 talks to.

Garmin's Response FWIW:
Thank you for contacting Garmin International. The GDL 82 will work with most mode C transponders, however if the transponder has low output then it will be time to replace the transponder with a newer one. If you end up replacing the transponder you will want to go with a GTX 335 with GPS, this is currently on a promotion for $3000 through the end of march and then it will go back up to $3800. I have included a link below for more information on this transponder. If you have any further questions please email back.

GTX 335: https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/140939

Best Regards,
Kyle Smith
Aviation Product Support Specialist-Pilot Ops​

Of course there's no mention of getting a GTX327. I was going to ask if I can get a yellow-tagged 327 and why he says I should get a GTX 335 w/ GPS when Garmin's website says "Includes built-in WAAS GPS position source (for ADS-B reference only)" ? However, I think I just answered my own question: I just found on Sarasota Avionic's website a package deal for a GDL82 and used 327 for $2500 + installation. http://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gdl82-gtx327-package.

What do you guys think of this solution?
 
I keep thinking GTX330ES. Mostly I don't want another antenna.

The GTX3x5's can use the 430W as position source. I don't know if that's true for the GDL82.
 
So basically it looks like below 10k and outside of class B or C airports we will still not be required to have ads-b out after 2020.(Quote)
I was not aware of that. Perhaps, before I turn into some kind of troll, I should do more research. But, on a brighter note, it did spark some discussion which may be helpful. And, yeah, the Garmin GTX 327 in standard configuration is not currently ADS-B out compliant. But it works really good with flight following (SEATAC Class B).
 
HAPPYDAN said:
So basically it looks like below 10k and outside of class B or C airports we will still not be required to have ads-b out after 2020.(Quote)
I was not aware of that. Perhaps, before I turn into some kind of troll, I should do more research. But, on a brighter note, it did spark some discussion which may be helpful. And, yeah, the Garmin GTX 327 in standard configuration is not currently ADS-B out compliant. But it works really good with flight following (SEATAC Class B).
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Yep, it helped me understand Garmin's response: he's hawking new gear $olutions, not trying to help me save money. So, it sounds like the GDL39 I already have for IN needs to be augmented with a 327 & GDL82 for OUT and I'm GTG. I'm not concerned with the extra drag of another antenna like Rob might be because I fly a slow bird anyway. ;)
 
Ravioli said:
I keep thinking GTX330ES. Mostly I don't want another antenna.

The GTX3x5's can use the 430W as position source. I don't know if that's true for the GDL82.
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It's my understanding that it indeed can, saving the need for a dedicated WAAS position antenna installation.
 
iflyvfr said:
However, I think I just answered my own question: I just found on Sarasota Avionic's website a package deal for a GDL82 and used 327 for $2500 + installation. http://sarasotaavionics.com/avionics/gdl82-gtx327-package.

What do you guys think of this solution?
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Problem with that solution is that, unless you have the ability to merely slide-in the 327 into your existing transponder rack, that's gonna shoot up the installation labor to the sky. At that point, the installation of the GDL-82, with or without stand-alone dedicated antenna, is not going to make sense. The labor will exceed the total installed cost of the upgrade when compared with merely purchasing and installing a 335 on a stand-alone basis (with or without WAAS dedicated antenna depending on your panel pre-existing capabilities).

As someone with a 430W/327 combo in the panel, what frustrates me is that you can't get a straight answer on labor when it comes to the GDL-82. Always something that "doesn't pass the test" and the upsell begins. If the GDL-82 is not a significant as-installed savings over the 335, then Garmin is merely bait and switching. This actually is the biggest reason why GA avionics antagonize me. I put it even above the "certified version" pricing issue of said avionics to be completely frank. I just don't appreciate the obfuscating nature of labor costs in this hobby.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Problem with that solution is that, unless you have the ability to merely slide-in the 327 into your existing transponder rack, that's gonna shoot up the installation labor to the sky. At that point, the installation of the GDL-82, with or without stand-alone dedicated antenna, is not going to make sense. The labor will exceed the total installed cost of the upgrade when compared with merely purchasing and installing a 335 on a stand-alone basis (with or without WAAS dedicated antenna depending on your panel pre-existing capabilities).
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Mmmm, thanks for the info. Why would a new transponder & rack increase the install costs so much? I'm not doubting you, I've just never had any avionics work done beyond replacing an old tube transponder with a solid state version and it was a slide-in replacement. I'm going to call a reputable shop I know tomorrow and ask him his opinion, will report back.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Problem with that solution is that, unless you have the ability to merely slide-in the 327 into your existing transponder rack, that's gonna shoot up the installation labor to the sky. At that point, the installation of the GDL-82, with or without stand-alone dedicated antenna, is not going to make sense. The labor will exceed the total installed cost of the upgrade when compared with merely purchasing and installing a 335 on a stand-alone basis (with or without WAAS dedicated antenna depending on your panel pre-existing capabilities).

As someone with a 430W/327 combo in the panel, what frustrates me is that you can't get a straight answer on labor when it comes to the GDL-82. Always something that "doesn't pass the test" and the upsell begins. If the GDL-82 is not a significant as-installed savings over the 335, then Garmin is merely bait and switching. This actually is the biggest reason why GA avionics antagonize me. I put it even above the "certified version" pricing issue of said avionics to be completely frank. I just don't appreciate the obfuscating nature of labor costs in this hobby.
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I understand the second part of your post now. After calling my local avionics shop and learning he's never installed a GDL 82, the rep talked like the transponder install would be expensive but didn't say how much.

Looking at a GTX 335, you get a mode-C transponder & ADSB out all in one box. As a result the GDL 82 and a GTX 327 is actually more expensive at $4,300 installed (per the Sarasota link I posted above) than the 335. The downside is that I have to keep my GDL 39 on the glare shield for ADSB-in. It's a big jump for me to go all the way to the 345 which gives me both in/out. As of now, it's looking more and more like the 335 is the right box for me.
 
yeah unless i can get a straight answer on the gdl 82, if i still have this airplane in 2019, im leaning towards the 335 myself. ****es me off since theres nothing wrong with the 327 and its been a great xponder.

theres nothing cosmic about splicing that unit between the antenna and the 327. alas to a kid with a hammer (avionics labor, prop shops also) everything's a *****g nail. i rather not patronize garmin on this front, but unless i can verify non garmin adsb out xponders do in fact accept 430w as position source, ill have to stick to the 335 to save on the labor of a dedicated waas antenna installation.
 
hindsight2020 said:
yeah unless i can get a straight answer on the gdl 82, if i still have this airplane in 2019, im leaning towards the 335 myself. ****es me off since theres nothing wrong with the 327 and its been a great xponder.

theres nothing cosmic about splicing that unit between the antenna and the 327. alas to a kid with a hammer (avionics labor, prop shops also) everything's a *****g nail. i rather not patronize garmin on this front, but unless i can verify non garmin adsb out xponders do in fact accept 430w as position source, ill have to stick to the 335 to save on the labor of a dedicated waas antenna installation.
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King KT-74 and TRIG units use the GNS WAAS position (ADS-B) out. Installed a KT-74 in '15 and works fine.
 
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