Garmin G500 TXI VS Dynon Skyview

[Arrow3_Dawg]

Greetings all,

I’m in the market to upgrade my ‘77 Arrow III outdated avionics/round-dials. What’s the general consensus as to one over the other? Looking forward to any advice.

Thanks!

John

 

[bill98]

Aspen + avidyne

 

[FORANE]

Welcome to POA.

I read Dynon has a lifetime chart subscription option:
http://seattleavionics.com/BF2016Offer.html

 

[Raymo]

I have dual Dynon screens in my RV-7A, along with all the other Dynon options (Xpndr, COM, AP, dual AD-AHRS, etc). Love the system and the price was far better than Garmin's certified equipment. I don't have an IFR navigator so don't need the chart subscription from SA.

 

[Arrow3_Dawg]

Thanks Raymo. Unfortunately I have to go with the certified stuff in my Piper Arrow. It looks like both the Dynon and Garmin certified are priced roughly the same.

John

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

priced the same.....even with the autopilot and engine monitor?

 

[MooneyDriver78]

The D100 is a 1/4 of the cost of Skyview/TXI but it’s just a 6 pack replacement without the bells and whistles the others have. So if that’s all you want...although Dynon seems like it wants to drop support, they point you to the skyview of course.

For those of us who just want the basics without AOA, engine monitor, etc there really is no options.


Tom

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Greetings all,

I’m in the market to upgrade my ‘77 Arrow III outdated avionics/round-dials. What’s the general consensus as to one over the other? Looking forward to any advice.

What's your budget, what equipment do you have now, and what do you want to end up with?

Aspen + avidyne

 

[Arrow3_Dawg]

I currently have the standard round dials with Mac Nav/comms, Century IIb autopilot, older King audio panel, KT76a, inop GX55 GPS. My budget is about 40k. I’d like to get a new Garmin package to include audio panel, GTN650, new nav/comm, new ADSB transponder, and G5 stay ADI. Also, once the GFC-500 is available for my airplane, I’d have that installed.

What's your budget, what equipment do you have now, and what do you want to end up with?

 

[Challenged]

The AV-30 seems like it might be a nice, inexpensive option at some point if they can tie it into the S-TEC, but I have my eye on the Dynon certified page too. For now, I enjoy having an inexpensive, full-glass panel with synthetic vision by just using my tablet and the Levil BOM. It's a poor man's G500 and works for now, but if I finally finish up my IR I may need to re-think things.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I currently have the standard round dials with Mac Nav/comms, Century IIb autopilot, older King audio panel, KT76a, inop GX55 GPS. My budget is about 40k. I’d like to get a new Garmin package to include audio panel, GTN650, new nav/comm, new ADSB transponder, and G5 stay ADI. Also, once the GFC-500 is available for my airplane, I’d have that installed.

All doable except the GFC 500.


Tom

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I currently have the standard round dials with Mac Nav/comms, Century IIb autopilot, older King audio panel, KT76a, inop GX55 GPS. My budget is about 40k. I’d like to get a new Garmin package to include audio panel, GTN650, new nav/comm, new ADSB transponder, and G5 stay ADI. Also, once the GFC-500 is available for my airplane, I’d have that installed.

OK, so it sounds like it's a given that:
* One of the MAC radios will be replaced by a GTN 650
* KMA-24 audio panel will be replaced with a Garmin (I recommend the GMA 350c so you can talk to the GTN - Makes it much easier and faster to get around the GTN)
* Century IIb will be replaced with a GFC 500
* KT76A will be replaced with something new
* G5 will be the standby.

It kind of already sounds like you've decided on Garmin. The G5 isn't approved as a backup for anything besides the Gx00 TXi - The backup for the certified Dynon SkyView HDX is the Dynon D10A. While I'm not sure that's stipulated in Dynon's STC, I do know that the G5 itself isn't approved as a backup instrument except as part of the STC for the TXi.

Also, the GFC 500 requires the G5, it's an integral part of the system. So, you can't do a GFC 500 with Dynon unless you have the Dynon panel (primary), an approved backup (Dynon or otherwise, but not G5), AND a G5.

Now, if you just want "something like a G5" and "something like a GFC 500" then there's a conversation to be had, because Dynon has an autopilot that I think is just as capable as the GFC 500.

If you have the flexibility to go with Dynon as opposed to specifically having the G5/GFC 500 combo, you can get pretty much everything from Dynon except your GPS navigator, for which you can still get the GTN 650. So, you could have:

Dynon SkyView HDX STC $2000
Dynon SkyView HDX "Basic Package" (10" display, D10A backup, and associated hardware): $9465
Dynon ADS-B In/Out: $3163
Dynon autopilot: $2808
Dynon engine monitoring: $1637
Dynon interfacing hardware: $863
Garmin GTN 650: $11,995
PS Engineering PMA450B: $2,595
Total equipment cost for SkyView HDX panel: $34,526

Looking at the Garmin side of things, it looks more like this:
G500 TXi, 10" display: $15,995
G5 AI for backup/AP: $2249
GTX 345: $4995
GFC 500: $6995
GTN 650: $11,995
GMA 350c: $2395
Total equipment cost for Garmin: $44,624

Now, these are retail prices and don't include installation, which is going to be significant. Now, you probably won't pay full retail on the Garmin stuff since there are package deals, Garmin "Seminar Bucks", show deals, etc. I'm not sure what sort of discounts you can get for Dynon.

Installation-wise, Dynon claims theirs will be easier to install, which is likely true - They're used to selling their stuff to people who have never installed any avionics before, so a lot of things are pre-wired and generally made as easy as possible to begin with.

Either way, getting all this done within a $40K budget is going to be difficult. For reference, we installed a GTN 750, GTX 345, GMA 350c, and FlightStream 510 in late 2017. Our retail equipment cost would be $26,380. Total installed cost including dealer discounts and $600 worth of Garmin Bucks, $1100 rebate from Garmin and $500 from the feds was $36,085.50, so figure the labor cost was in the neighborhood of $10,000. Subtract the $5500 price difference for the GTN 650 instead of 750 and it'd have been $30,585, and that's without any glass or new autopilot and the additional labor associated with those. Do the whole thing and I'd expect you'll be in the neighborhood of $15-20K for labor, pushing your cost up to maybe $50-65K total. @Jesse Saint, am I in the neighborhood here?

Of course, there will be additional costs - The good old "While we're in there" stuff that makes sense to do now instead of later. We pulled out a bunch of old stuff, replaced a bunch of coax and a bum com antenna, refurbished the KX-165 Nav/Com radio that we kept, replaced the shock mounts on the panel, replaced a bunch of lights and filters, overhauled the turn coordinator, adjusted and calibrated the autopilot, etc... All that "while we're in there" stuff cost another $5.2K.

We did go with a really good shop instead of a cheap shop, but cheap ain't cheap in the long run. We may have paid some for quality, but the job was done on time, on budget, and everything worked perfectly with the stuff that was still in the plane, right out of the gate. Haven't been back to the avionics shop at all in the ensuing 15 months.

Bottom line, your decision may be driven by budget as much as anything else, and I would recommend a quote from one of the Dynon shops like Sarasota who has done plenty of installs on both systems to see how much the installation will affect things.

 

[James331]

Dynon and stuff like the AV30 are positioning to be making garmin look like king radios.

If I was doing a new panel, a skyview IMO would be more on par with a G1000, plus all the other stuff it does, seems like a easy choice IMO.

Also if you're just needing a certified navigator, why not just get a used 430W, with those dynon screens the added fluff of the 650 isn't going to be used.

 

[Arrow3_Dawg]

OK, so it sounds like it's a given that:
* One of the MAC radios will be replaced by a GTN 650
* KMA-24 audio panel will be replaced with a Garmin (I recommend the GMA 350c so you can talk to the GTN - Makes it much easier and faster to get around the GTN)
* Century IIb will be replaced with a GFC 500
* KT76A will be replaced with something new
* G5 will be the standby.

It kind of already sounds like you've decided on Garmin. The G5 isn't approved as a backup for anything besides the Gx00 TXi - The backup for the certified Dynon SkyView HDX is the Dynon D10A. While I'm not sure that's stipulated in Dynon's STC, I do know that the G5 itself isn't approved as a backup instrument except as part of the STC for the TXi.

Also, the GFC 500 requires the G5, it's an integral part of the system. So, you can't do a GFC 500 with Dynon unless you have the Dynon panel (primary), an approved backup (Dynon or otherwise, but not G5), AND a G5.

Now, if you just want "something like a G5" and "something like a GFC 500" then there's a conversation to be had, because Dynon has an autopilot that I think is just as capable as the GFC 500.

If you have the flexibility to go with Dynon as opposed to specifically having the G5/GFC 500 combo, you can get pretty much everything from Dynon except your GPS navigator, for which you can still get the GTN 650. So, you could have:

Dynon SkyView HDX STC $2000
Dynon SkyView HDX "Basic Package" (10" display, D10A backup, and associated hardware): $9465
Dynon ADS-B In/Out: $3163
Dynon autopilot: $2808
Dynon engine monitoring: $1637
Dynon interfacing hardware: $863
Garmin GTN 650: $11,995
PS Engineering PMA450B: $2,595
Total equipment cost for SkyView HDX panel: $34,526

Looking at the Garmin side of things, it looks more like this:
G500 TXi, 10" display: $15,995
G5 AI for backup/AP: $2249
GTX 345: $4995
GFC 500: $6995
GTN 650: $11,995
GMA 350c: $2395
Total equipment cost for Garmin: $44,624

Now, these are retail prices and don't include installation, which is going to be significant. Now, you probably won't pay full retail on the Garmin stuff since there are package deals, Garmin "Seminar Bucks", show deals, etc. I'm not sure what sort of discounts you can get for Dynon.

Installation-wise, Dynon claims theirs will be easier to install, which is likely true - They're used to selling their stuff to people who have never installed any avionics before, so a lot of things are pre-wired and generally made as easy as possible to begin with.

Either way, getting all this done within a $40K budget is going to be difficult. For reference, we installed a GTN 750, GTX 345, GMA 350c, and FlightStream 510 in late 2017. Our retail equipment cost would be $26,380. Total installed cost including dealer discounts and $600 worth of Garmin Bucks, $1100 rebate from Garmin and $500 from the feds was $36,085.50, so figure the labor cost was in the neighborhood of $10,000. Subtract the $5500 price difference for the GTN 650 instead of 750 and it'd have been $30,585, and that's without any glass or new autopilot and the additional labor associated with those. Do the whole thing and I'd expect you'll be in the neighborhood of $15-20K for labor, pushing your cost up to maybe $50-65K total. @Jesse Saint, am I in the neighborhood here?

Of course, there will be additional costs - The good old "While we're in there" stuff that makes sense to do now instead of later. We pulled out a bunch of old stuff, replaced a bunch of coax and a bum com antenna, refurbished the KX-165 Nav/Com radio that we kept, replaced the shock mounts on the panel, replaced a bunch of lights and filters, overhauled the turn coordinator, adjusted and calibrated the autopilot, etc... All that "while we're in there" stuff cost another $5.2K.

We did go with a really good shop instead of a cheap shop, but cheap ain't cheap in the long run. We may have paid some for quality, but the job was done on time, on budget, and everything worked perfectly with the stuff that was still in the plane, right out of the gate. Haven't been back to the avionics shop at all in the ensuing 15 months.

Bottom line, your decision may be driven by budget as much as anything else, and I would recommend a quote from one of the Dynon shops like Sarasota who has done plenty of installs on both systems to see how much the installation will affect things.

Kent,

Thank you for your post! That is exactly what I was looking for, as far as info for the two! I pretty much did have my mind made up for a Garmin package but now you’ve piqued my interest in the Dynon stuff. Thanks again for your great post!

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Dynon and stuff like the AV30 are positioning to be making garmin look like king radios.

If I was doing a new panel, a skyview IMO would be more on par with a G1000, plus all the other stuff it does, seems like a easy choice IMO.

Garmin? Look like King? Not any time soon. Dynon needs a lot of work to be a legitimate competitor to Garmin, they're going way too slow on their STC approvals. You can still only get the SkyView HDX system in a 172, and that kind of expenditure really only makes sense on the pre-G1000 R and S models (1997-2003). Here we are, over a year and a half since it was announced, and they haven't gotten the second model approved yet.

That said, I sure hope they succeed to a level at least as high as Aspen has in the certified market. Garmin does need someone to keep them on their toes, though they've managed to do so pretty well even without any real competition for a long time.

Also if you're just needing a certified navigator, why not just get a used 430W, with those dynon screens the added fluff of the 650 isn't going to be used.

Because a used 430W costs darn near as much as a 650 does, and the 650 will have a warranty and enjoy ongoing support far longer than the 430W.

I wouldn't necessarily pull a 430W out of a plane that already had one doing an upgrade right now, but if you don't already have one, it makes no sense to acquire one used and install it these days.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Kent,

Thank you for your post! That is exactly what I was looking for, as far as info for the two! I pretty much did have my mind made up for a Garmin package but now you’ve piqued my interest in the Dynon stuff. Thanks again for your great post!

You're welcome! I'm a fan of all the Garmin hotness myself, and even with the relatively high airframe value on our 1997 Mooney, going through what will likely be another nearly-$40K upgrade to get the G500 TXi, G5, and GFC 500 is giving me pause. I've heard rumors that Garmin will have a G5-like instrument that can drive my KFC150 autopilot, coming out by Sun-n-Fun or so, and we may give that the nod at least temporarily.

I doubt we'll go with Dynon just because they may not be approved on the Mooney in time, and if we're gonna spend that kind of money we're probably going to end up with Garmin anyway. Might have to take another look, though, because it seems like with the stuff we've installed already, the Dynon might actually be significantly cheaper. Looks like we would save about $3500 on the displays (HDX 10" + D10A) compared to the TXi/G5, and about $5K on the autopilot compared to the GFC 500.

Hmmm...

 

[MooneyDriver78]

OK, so it sounds like it's a given that:
* One of the MAC radios will be replaced by a GTN 650
* KMA-24 audio panel will be replaced with a Garmin (I recommend the GMA 350c so you can talk to the GTN - Makes it much easier and faster to get around the GTN)
* Century IIb will be replaced with a GFC 500
* KT76A will be replaced with something new
* G5 will be the standby.

It kind of already sounds like you've decided on Garmin. The G5 isn't approved as a backup for anything besides the Gx00 TXi - The backup for the certified Dynon SkyView HDX is the Dynon D10A. While I'm not sure that's stipulated in Dynon's STC, I do know that the G5 itself isn't approved as a backup instrument except as part of the STC for the TXi.

Also, the GFC 500 requires the G5, it's an integral part of the system. So, you can't do a GFC 500 with Dynon unless you have the Dynon panel (primary), an approved backup (Dynon or otherwise, but not G5), AND a G5.

Now, if you just want "something like a G5" and "something like a GFC 500" then there's a conversation to be had, because Dynon has an autopilot that I think is just as capable as the GFC 500.

If you have the flexibility to go with Dynon as opposed to specifically having the G5/GFC 500 combo, you can get pretty much everything from Dynon except your GPS navigator, for which you can still get the GTN 650. So, you could have:

Dynon SkyView HDX STC $2000
Dynon SkyView HDX "Basic Package" (10" display, D10A backup, and associated hardware): $9465
Dynon ADS-B In/Out: $3163
Dynon autopilot: $2808
Dynon engine monitoring: $1637
Dynon interfacing hardware: $863
Garmin GTN 650: $11,995
PS Engineering PMA450B: $2,595
Total equipment cost for SkyView HDX panel: $34,526

Looking at the Garmin side of things, it looks more like this:
G500 TXi, 10" display: $15,995
G5 AI for backup/AP: $2249
GTX 345: $4995
GFC 500: $6995
GTN 650: $11,995
GMA 350c: $2395
Total equipment cost for Garmin: $44,624

Now, these are retail prices and don't include installation, which is going to be significant. Now, you probably won't pay full retail on the Garmin stuff since there are package deals, Garmin "Seminar Bucks", show deals, etc. I'm not sure what sort of discounts you can get for Dynon.

Installation-wise, Dynon claims theirs will be easier to install, which is likely true - They're used to selling their stuff to people who have never installed any avionics before, so a lot of things are pre-wired and generally made as easy as possible to begin with.

Either way, getting all this done within a $40K budget is going to be difficult. For reference, we installed a GTN 750, GTX 345, GMA 350c, and FlightStream 510 in late 2017. Our retail equipment cost would be $26,380. Total installed cost including dealer discounts and $600 worth of Garmin Bucks, $1100 rebate from Garmin and $500 from the feds was $36,085.50, so figure the labor cost was in the neighborhood of $10,000. Subtract the $5500 price difference for the GTN 650 instead of 750 and it'd have been $30,585, and that's without any glass or new autopilot and the additional labor associated with those. Do the whole thing and I'd expect you'll be in the neighborhood of $15-20K for labor, pushing your cost up to maybe $50-65K total. @Jesse Saint, am I in the neighborhood here?

Of course, there will be additional costs - The good old "While we're in there" stuff that makes sense to do now instead of later. We pulled out a bunch of old stuff, replaced a bunch of coax and a bum com antenna, refurbished the KX-165 Nav/Com radio that we kept, replaced the shock mounts on the panel, replaced a bunch of lights and filters, overhauled the turn coordinator, adjusted and calibrated the autopilot, etc... All that "while we're in there" stuff cost another $5.2K.

We did go with a really good shop instead of a cheap shop, but cheap ain't cheap in the long run. We may have paid some for quality, but the job was done on time, on budget, and everything worked perfectly with the stuff that was still in the plane, right out of the gate. Haven't been back to the avionics shop at all in the ensuing 15 months.

Bottom line, your decision may be driven by budget as much as anything else, and I would recommend a quote from one of the Dynon shops like Sarasota who has done plenty of installs on both systems to see how much the installation will affect things.

You can save alot by leaving out the TXI, which was more than OP needs, go with just G5s.


Tom

 

[James331]

Garmin? Look like King? Not any time soon. Dynon needs a lot of work to be a legitimate competitor to Garmin, they're going way too slow on their STC approvals. You can still only get the SkyView HDX system in a 172, and that kind of expenditure really only makes sense on the pre-G1000 R and S models (1997-2003). Here we are, over a year and a half since it was announced, and they haven't gotten the second model approved yet.

That said, I sure hope they succeed to a level at least as high as Aspen has in the certified market. Garmin does need someone to keep them on their toes, though they've managed to do so pretty well even without any real competition for a long time.



Because a used 430W costs darn near as much as a 650 does, and the 650 will have a warranty and enjoy ongoing support far longer than the 430W.

I wouldn't necessarily pull a 430W out of a plane that already had one doing an upgrade right now, but if you don't already have one, it makes no sense to acquire one used and install it these days.

Exactly, if it wasn't for the pain in the butt STC process, garmin and their overpriced stuff would have been steamrolled years ago. I mean for all the $$ garmin has look at their form, features and price for a G5 vs a AV30, or 500 vs a skyview.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

You can save alot by leaving out the TXI, which was more than OP needs, go with just G5s.

True... A dual G5 type setup is definitely on the table for us too, but we need the AI one to be able to provide attitude to our autopilot, or replace the autopilot anyway which is a pretty hefty expense. We'll probably get a quote for the whole enchilada (G500 TXi + G5 + GFC 500), one where we keep the existing autopilot (G500 TXi + G5 + GAD43e interface), one for a less-glassy solution keeping the current autopilot (G5 or whatever the AI is that they come up with that can drive our autopilot plus its DAC, G5 HSI, Insight G3 GEM), and the less-glassy version with the autopilot (Dual G5 + GFC 500 + Insight G3) and decide from there. Might get a quote for the Dynon too, if our shop has done any and the STC AML has our plane on it by then.

The other thing to consider is that equipment like the G500 TXi isn't just a bigger piece of glass, it also has more information on it, and that's a major part of what makes glass nice. G5s are pretty rudimentary in comparison.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Exactly, if it wasn't for the pain in the butt STC process, garmin and their overpriced stuff would have been steamrolled years ago. I mean for all the $$ garmin has look at their form, features and price for a G5 vs a AV30, or 500 vs a skyview.

I think the G5 and G500 TXi are more refined products than the AV30 or Skyview HDX in their on-screen presentation... But that's somewhat subjective.

I'm just glad Garmin apparently still has enough of their people who are pilots and/or used to work for King involved in running the company, because the revenue and margins in the aviation part of their business aren't as good as in the other parts of their business. It would be very easy for bean counters to say "Let's just shut down this aviation thing and focus on the more profitable things we can do". Without Garmin, it'd be very easy for the rest of the GA avionics industry to then get lazy and slow down their R&D to a level where we wouldn't see nearly the level of innovation that we are seeing right now.

And what we're seeing right now is GREAT! I've "only" been flying for about 16 years, but what has happened in that time frame is incredible, and it only seems to be accelerating in the last few years. It's an exciting time to be a pilot.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

.

The other thing to consider is that equipment like the G500 TXi isn't just a bigger piece of glass, it also has more information on it, and that's a major part of what makes glass nice. G5s are pretty rudimentary in comparison.

Ignoring AOA or SV, and considering the 7” model, what information does it provide, TAS? Any map like functionality isn’t needed with iPad running FF or GP, and they can display SV if you want it.


Tom

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I want dat.....

 

[CC268]

OK, so it sounds like it's a given that:
* One of the MAC radios will be replaced by a GTN 650
* KMA-24 audio panel will be replaced with a Garmin (I recommend the GMA 350c so you can talk to the GTN - Makes it much easier and faster to get around the GTN)
* Century IIb will be replaced with a GFC 500
* KT76A will be replaced with something new
* G5 will be the standby.

It kind of already sounds like you've decided on Garmin. The G5 isn't approved as a backup for anything besides the Gx00 TXi - The backup for the certified Dynon SkyView HDX is the Dynon D10A. While I'm not sure that's stipulated in Dynon's STC, I do know that the G5 itself isn't approved as a backup instrument except as part of the STC for the TXi.

Also, the GFC 500 requires the G5, it's an integral part of the system. So, you can't do a GFC 500 with Dynon unless you have the Dynon panel (primary), an approved backup (Dynon or otherwise, but not G5), AND a G5.

Now, if you just want "something like a G5" and "something like a GFC 500" then there's a conversation to be had, because Dynon has an autopilot that I think is just as capable as the GFC 500.

If you have the flexibility to go with Dynon as opposed to specifically having the G5/GFC 500 combo, you can get pretty much everything from Dynon except your GPS navigator, for which you can still get the GTN 650. So, you could have:

Dynon SkyView HDX STC $2000
Dynon SkyView HDX "Basic Package" (10" display, D10A backup, and associated hardware): $9465
Dynon ADS-B In/Out: $3163
Dynon autopilot: $2808
Dynon engine monitoring: $1637
Dynon interfacing hardware: $863
Garmin GTN 650: $11,995
PS Engineering PMA450B: $2,595
Total equipment cost for SkyView HDX panel: $34,526

Looking at the Garmin side of things, it looks more like this:
G500 TXi, 10" display: $15,995
G5 AI for backup/AP: $2249
GTX 345: $4995
GFC 500: $6995
GTN 650: $11,995
GMA 350c: $2395
Total equipment cost for Garmin: $44,624

Now, these are retail prices and don't include installation, which is going to be significant. Now, you probably won't pay full retail on the Garmin stuff since there are package deals, Garmin "Seminar Bucks", show deals, etc. I'm not sure what sort of discounts you can get for Dynon.

Installation-wise, Dynon claims theirs will be easier to install, which is likely true - They're used to selling their stuff to people who have never installed any avionics before, so a lot of things are pre-wired and generally made as easy as possible to begin with.

Either way, getting all this done within a $40K budget is going to be difficult. For reference, we installed a GTN 750, GTX 345, GMA 350c, and FlightStream 510 in late 2017. Our retail equipment cost would be $26,380. Total installed cost including dealer discounts and $600 worth of Garmin Bucks, $1100 rebate from Garmin and $500 from the feds was $36,085.50, so figure the labor cost was in the neighborhood of $10,000. Subtract the $5500 price difference for the GTN 650 instead of 750 and it'd have been $30,585, and that's without any glass or new autopilot and the additional labor associated with those. Do the whole thing and I'd expect you'll be in the neighborhood of $15-20K for labor, pushing your cost up to maybe $50-65K total. @Jesse Saint, am I in the neighborhood here?

Of course, there will be additional costs - The good old "While we're in there" stuff that makes sense to do now instead of later. We pulled out a bunch of old stuff, replaced a bunch of coax and a bum com antenna, refurbished the KX-165 Nav/Com radio that we kept, replaced the shock mounts on the panel, replaced a bunch of lights and filters, overhauled the turn coordinator, adjusted and calibrated the autopilot, etc... All that "while we're in there" stuff cost another $5.2K.

We did go with a really good shop instead of a cheap shop, but cheap ain't cheap in the long run. We may have paid some for quality, but the job was done on time, on budget, and everything worked perfectly with the stuff that was still in the plane, right out of the gate. Haven't been back to the avionics shop at all in the ensuing 15 months.

Bottom line, your decision may be driven by budget as much as anything else, and I would recommend a quote from one of the Dynon shops like Sarasota who has done plenty of installs on both systems to see how much the installation will affect things.

Panel pics plz

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Ignoring AOA or SV, and considering the 7” model, what information does it provide, TAS?

TAS, vertical speed bug, winds aloft, air temp, density altitude, timer/clock, flight plan and related data fields (distance, ETE, etc) interfaces with other equipment (autopilots, add'l nav receivers, radar altimeters, DME, etc) and a crap-ton of stuff that can be put onto the HSI map (Radar, terrain, obstacles, power lines, traffic, etc).

It's a lot more than just a big G5.

Any map like functionality isn’t needed with iPad running FF or GP, and they can display SV if you want it.

In the instance where you really need SV, an iPad is a terrible way to provide it because you'll almost certainly need to move your head to see it, which isn't a good thing to do in IMC - ever do the FAA spatial disorientation simulator? Plus, the iPad isn't nearly as reliable as certified panel-mount avionics.

 

[James331]

I think the G5 and G500 TXi are more refined products than the AV30 or Skyview HDX in their on-screen presentation... But that's somewhat subjective.

I'm just glad Garmin apparently still has enough of their people who are pilots and/or used to work for King involved in running the company, because the revenue and margins in the aviation part of their business aren't as good as in the other parts of their business. It would be very easy for bean counters to say "Let's just shut down this aviation thing and focus on the more profitable things we can do". Without Garmin, it'd be very easy for the rest of the GA avionics industry to then get lazy and slow down their R&D to a level where we wouldn't see nearly the level of innovation that we are seeing right now.

And what we're seeing right now is GREAT! I've "only" been flying for about 16 years, but what has happened in that time frame is incredible, and it only seems to be accelerating in the last few years. It's an exciting time to be a pilot.

My issue with the G5 is it’s square and it is pumpkin spice basic, for being electronic I expect much more than a electronic version of a very basic steam gauge

Vs

Vs

And may way before the G5

Or for full glass

Vs

 

[flyingcheesehead]

My issue with the G5 is it’s square and it is pumpkin spice basic, for being electronic I expect much more than a electronic version of a very basic steam gauge

Vs

See, I much prefer the G5 presentation, out of those two. Rather than the fakey old fixed airplane, the G5 has flight director bars. The AV-30 isn't showing anything that the G5 isn't, but the G5 is showing numeric heading, plus actual tapes for airspeed and altitude. I'm assuming "SALT" means Selected Altitude on the AV-30, and the graphical bug for that (as well as bugs on both heading and airspeed on the G5) is much better. The G5 also makes much better use of color, whereas the text interpretation necessary on the part of the pilot will take a small piece of their brain to handle.

Vs

And may way before the G5

The Sandel also cost many times what the G5 does. You can get a much nicer unit than a G5 for that kind of money, so IMO it's not really a fair comparison.

Or for full glass

Vs

Here, you're comparing old equipment to new. The Garmin unit pictured above is nearly 14 years old, while the Dynon is about 2 years old.

Now, the SkyView HDX is very nice, and I have a lot fewer complaints about it relative to the Garmin. But, I do have some. The biggest one is probably just the big black vertical bar they're using for the data fields as opposed to having them superimposed on the MFD. I'm not sure I like their extensive use of purple text either. Purple is something that has meaning on other parts of the display and other avionics, and its use here not only robs it of some contrast, it draws the eye away when looking for something where the color is meaningful.

So, like I said, my complaints with the HDx are much smaller. In my case, part of the advantage of the TXi over the HDX is that the TXI user interface is consistent with what I already have in the plane (GTN 750), so lower learning curve and less brainpower used for interpreting the data going forward.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

G5 needs arc mode like the sandel, IMO. Other than that, for $2500, seems like a great piece of equipment.


Tom

 

[James331]

I think having the AOA on the AI should be a standard thing, being able to overlay waypoints and terrain/traffic/airspace on a EHSI should be a standard option, if you want it on or want to declutter to a old school presentation should be a menu choice

Just seems like with all you can do with glass putting a square box to market that donesnt fit most of the fleet (square peg round hole) and doesn’t have those options, it seems lacking.

There is a reason the experimental guys have had way more advanced panels than certified and easier to install panels too, it is nice that that that stuff is slowly starting to trickle into the certified world.

I mean just the fact that garmin didn’t program their massive 530/430 line to accept a simple airway has always had me suspicious.

That said I do really like my GNS, but pound for pound the mostly experimental guys like dynon might not have lapped garmin, but are well ahead IMO

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Better comparison of the HDX with the TXi:

SkyView HDX:

G500 TXi: (best pic I could find, though it shows a twin so the engine monitor is a bit different, and the PFD/MFD is "backwards" from most - This is configurable.)


A few things I'm noticing now, seeing both together:
* Garmin has ticks and numbers on engine gauges as opposed to just a scale with a single number. Better presentation by Garmin again.
* Numeric VSI on Dynon. I kinda like that. Garmin just has a needle and a pretty imprecise scale.
* Garmin wins on the knobs: They're concentric and have the full list of what they do on the screen so it's easy to get to where you're going. Again, better presentation by Garmin.
* Flap/Trim indicators on Dynon... Though we'll likely keep the ones we already have in the panel (LED bar-graph displays).

Now, Dynon has come a long way. When they first announced that they were going to certify the SkyView HDX, it was still possible to completely block out the AI/PFD representation if you pulled up the right (wrong) menu, and the FAA said no bueno to that. Garmin clearly benefits from this not being their first (certified) rodeo. If Dynon can just figure out how to get things certified at a faster pace, they could be some formidable competition for Garmin.

 

[James331]

The other big one is the AOA on the AI, as vref is based on weight and other factors it’s nice to have it right along side the airspeed.

Personally I’d have it more directly alongside the airspeed.

And I also agree the AV-30 would really rock if it had a FD

 

[Raymo]

Panel pics plz

Skyview 1000T (Classic) Touch. This is a screen capture, which is a function of the EFIS by pressing buttons 2 and 7 while there is a USB drive attached. Lots of information you don't get with steam gauges. The HDX layout has the engine information on the bottom and a legend on the side to de-clutter the map.

This was a test run after tweaking the timing of my P-Mag (EI). Nice ground speed!

Another pic taken with my phone: