Garmin 430 WAAS upgrades

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jlwilson

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Joyce
Does anyone know if there are still any kind of rebates or specials on WAAS upgrades for the Garmin 430? I know I should have upgraded last year, but I was a new pilot with a new plane and didn't realize the value I was missing:frown3:

Thanks,

Joyce
 
You want white or wheat?

jlwilson said:
Does anyone know if there are still any kind of rebates or specials on WAAS upgrades for the Garmin 430? I know I should have upgraded last year, but I was a new pilot with a new plane and didn't realize the value I was missing:frown3:

Thanks,

Joyce
Click to expand...
 
Garmin found itself in a deep hole with the original $1500 upgrade cost when the certification took years longer than planned, and they found they needed to replace circuit boards as well as software. However, they stuck with the original price for those who ordered it before they realized how much it would really cost. I believe they took a considerable financial bath on those $1500 upgrades. The fact that the price doubled after the cutoff date tells us something about that. I would not hold my breath waiting for Garmin to offer any future deals or rebates on 400/500 WAAS upgrades unless/until the GNS 630/730 comes out and they find there's a whole bunch of 430/530 circuit boards and antennas in their warehouse they want to get rid of -- and I haven't seen even the slightest hint of a 630/730 in the works.
 
Bummer, that's what I was afraid of. I'm sure with the economy as it is, they're probably not planning anything big at the moment. I guess I'll just have to put a new 530 on my Christmas hint list :smile:.

Thanks for the information!

Joyce
 
And I'm wondering if the new software release 3.20 due out this month will be done as warranty or under the $crew the customer plan. For one thing it's supposed to fix the problem that won't show LPV or LNAV/VNAV vertical guidance for airports with 3 character designators (like mine). Who knows what other bugs are in there waiting to be fixed.
 
Lance, this may sound like a dumb question, but do you know if the local shop can install this latest software update or will it require sending it back to Garmin? It would be nice if this was something I could wait on instead of leaving it.

I've become a familiar face around the avionics shop I use with Aspen unit "fixes" since July. Their first "software" update required the unit to be shipped back to the factory. But it's working great now.

Lance F said:
And I'm wondering if the new software release 3.20 due out this month will be done as warranty or under the $crew the customer plan. For one thing it's supposed to fix the problem that won't show LPV or LNAV/VNAV vertical guidance for airports with 3 character designators (like mine). Who knows what other bugs are in there waiting to be fixed.
Click to expand...
 
Lance F said:
And I'm wondering if the new software release 3.20 due out this month will be done as warranty or under the $crew the customer plan. For one thing it's supposed to fix the problem that won't show LPV or LNAV/VNAV vertical guidance for airports with 3 character designators (like mine). Who knows what other bugs are in there waiting to be fixed.
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If I had to bet, I'd go with the "free upgrade" option. Typically releases that only increase the "fractional" part of the version (e.g. 3.1 vs 3.2) are mostly bug fixes not feature enhancements and don't get charged for. AFaIK this has been Garmin's policy in the past.
 
Lance, this may sound like a dumb question, but do you know if the local shop can install this latest software update or will it require sending it back to Garmin? It would be nice if this was something I could wait on instead of leaving it.
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As I understand it, a routine garmin software update is just loaded in via flash card. This should be a quick "out-patient" procedure.

The waas upgrade involved hardware changes, and required shipping back to Garmin.
-harry
 
mantakos said:
As I understand it, a routine garmin software update is just loaded in via flash card. This should be a quick "out-patient" procedure.

The waas upgrade involved hardware changes, and required shipping back to Garmin.
-harry
Click to expand...

Sounds like a local operation to me. I doubt that the unit will need to go back to Garmin unless there's a need to add internal memory.
 
jlwilson said:
Does anyone know if there are still any kind of rebates or specials on WAAS upgrades for the Garmin 430? I know I should have upgraded last year, but I was a new pilot with a new plane and didn't realize the value I was missing:frown3:
Click to expand...

IIRC it's $3000 now instead of $1500, and the installation will run you another $1500 or so (new antennas, wiring, etc.) but it's worth every penny. :yes:
 
Ok, Stupid question of the day here: Other than a small increase in accuracy, what does the WASS upgrade do for the 430?
 
waldo said:
Ok, Stupid question of the day here: Other than a small increase in accuracy, what does the WASS upgrade do for the 430?
Click to expand...

You mean besides giving you:

"Sole source" navigation (the ability to use GPS without working, tested VORs on the ground and in the airplane.

The ability to fly LPV approaches which now outnumber ILS approaches and provide pretty much the same minimums and a much more accurate path.

The use of filed alternates that don't have any approaches you can fly except GPS.
 
Much faster updating and more responsive menus.

Terrain alerting.
 
lancefisher said:
You mean besides giving you:

"Sole source" navigation (the ability to use GPS without working, tested VORs on the ground and in the airplane.

The ability to fly LPV approaches which now outnumber ILS approaches and provide pretty much the same minimums and a much more accurate path.

The use of filed alternates that don't have any approaches you can fly except GPS.
Click to expand...

And a lot more, too...

* A glideslope to the ground at any airport with a GPS approach - Really handy when your engine starts coughing and the clouds are below minimums. This is true of ANY GPS approach, not just the LPV ones. (The "ILS-to-the-ground" scenario becomes "ILS or GPS to the ground".)

* If you have it coupled to the autopilot to provide roll steering commands, the 430W can now fly procedure turns and holds for you.

* Faster processor, so you're not limited to a 1Hz update rate

EDIT: Almost as soon as I posted this, I remembered another one - Parallel tracking. For example, you can punch in a course, and fly a mile to the right of that course. Handy if you're going to Brazil any time soon. ;)

And I'm sure between Lance, Spike and I we have not covered it all. Before we did the upgrade, I was somewhat blase about it - Woo woo, LPV approaches, right? After the upgrade when I discovered all of the new capabilities, I was quite impressed, and I think the upgrade was well worth it. :yes:
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
* If you have it coupled to the autopilot to provide roll steering commands, the 430W can now fly procedure turns and holds for you.
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...and if your autopilot will do GPS vertical navigation, the 430W will drive that, too. The non-WAAS 430 will not.
 
Is it possible to tell the difference between the 430 and the 430W by looking at the faceplate?

Whilst trolling ads, all are labeled GNS430. The W is a big difference. I don't understand why people don't differentiate in their ads.
 
FlyNE said:
Is it possible to tell the difference between the 430 and the 430W by looking at the faceplate?

Whilst trolling ads, all are labeled GNS430. The W is a big difference. I don't understand why people don't differentiate in their ads.
Click to expand...

Sadly, no. The exterior look is the same. The only way is to power the unit up and note the new welcome / info. page. I would guess that the majority of boxes out there are non-waas. Glad I did the upgrade!
 
CT Arrow said:
Sadly, no. The exterior look is the same. The only way is to power the unit up and note the new welcome / info. page. I would guess that the majority of boxes out there are non-waas. Glad I did the upgrade!
Click to expand...

Hmm. That sucks. :)

How much is the upgrade? Ron said $3000, but I believe that is only the Garmin nut, correct? How much to actually install it in, say, a 172?

How much to get a new one installed if you find the right price?
 
FlyNE said:
Hmm. That sucks. :)

How much is the upgrade? Ron said $3000, but I believe that is only the Garmin nut, correct? How much to actually install it in, say, a 172?

How much to get a new one installed if you find the right price?
Click to expand...

Mine ended up costing about $4,200.00, but that was with the Garmin promo ($1,500.00 instead of $3,000.00).

"Increasers" include the new coax (many earlier installs had non-compliant coax cable installed), purchase and installation of a remote annunciator (Bonanza radio stack too far to the right for the 430's on-screen annunciation to be considered "in the scan").

YMMV, but I'd budget something like four grand. Talk to your shop first, to get an idea.
 
FlyNE said:
Hmm. That sucks. :)

How much is the upgrade? Ron said $3000, but I believe that is only the Garmin nut, correct? How much to actually install it in, say, a 172?

How much to get a new one installed if you find the right price?
Click to expand...

The upgrade comes with a new antenna in most cases and that's the majority of the local work. Depending on access that could take 15 minutes or a few hours at shop rates and AFaIK isn't included in the current upgrade price.
 
gismo said:
The upgrade comes with a new antenna in most cases and that's the majority of the local work. Depending on access that could take 15 minutes or a few hours at shop rates and AFaIK isn't included in the current upgrade price.
Click to expand...

The antenna is easy. The coax, in most cases has to be changed out. That, is th big local expense.
 
FlyNE said:
Is it possible to tell the difference between the 430 and the 430W by looking at the faceplate?

Whilst trolling ads, all are labeled GNS430. The W is a big difference. I don't understand why people don't differentiate in their ads.
Click to expand...

I don't get that either, but I have seen some people advertising the "W". I think it's fairly safe to assume that if they don't specifically say it's a W, that it isn't. They are, after all, trying to sell their airplane!

FlyNE said:
How much is the upgrade? Ron said $3000, but I believe that is only the Garmin nut, correct? How much to actually install it in, say, a 172?
Click to expand...

Installation, probably $1500 or so, maybe $2000 unless you have to do something "special" like add the annunciator as Spike mentioned.

How much to get a new one installed if you find the right price?
Click to expand...

IIRC it'd be about $12K-$14K including the box, OBS, etc...
 
FlyNE said:
Hmm. That sucks. :)

How much is the upgrade? Ron said $3000, but I believe that is only the Garmin nut, correct? How much to actually install it in, say, a 172?

How much to get a new one installed if you find the right price?
Click to expand...

Jason, all of the responses are on track! Your best bet is to chat w/ a few of your local Avionic shops and let them see & quote your aircraft. Then you will know how much it's going to hurt $$$$ :yikes:

But, you will love it! :D
 
CT Arrow said:
Jason, all of the responses are on track! Your best bet is to chat w/ a few of your local Avionic shops and let them see & quote your aircraft. Then you will know how much it's going to hurt $$$$ :yikes:

But, you will love it! :D
Click to expand...

First, I need an aircraft. :D

Basically, in doing what all pilots do (troll barnstormers/aso/controller/etc looking for my airplane) I've noticed that 172s with 430s are expensive and I want WAAS. So, I was just trying to get a handle on what I was looking at. I was thinking I could just find a good deal on one without a 430 and add it.
 
In 2007 it took a month and cost $7,200. That was with the special $1500 upgrade instead of today's $3000 upgrade. Take a look here to see what it entailed. I'd be sure to mention these items to your avionics shop before starting the upgrade. For example, notice he took the time to replace all the screws and wiring. And re-label all my circuit breakers.
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13504
 
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Ron Levy said:
I would not hold my breath waiting for Garmin to offer any future deals or rebates on 400/500 WAAS upgrades unless/until the GNS 630/730 comes out and they find there's a whole bunch of 430/530 circuit boards and antennas in their warehouse they want to get rid of -- and I haven't seen even the slightest hint of a 630/730 in the works.
Click to expand...

I think you are absolutely right. They have no incentive to do otherwise.
 
AuntPeggy said:
In 2007 it took a month and cost $7,200. That was with the special $1500 upgrade instead of today's $3000 upgrade. Take a look here to see what it entailed. I'd be sure to mention these items to your avionics shop before starting the upgrade. For example, notice he took the time to replace all the screws and wiring. And re-label all my circuit breakers.
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13504
Click to expand...

When I got mine done, the amount I cited was just the GPS upgrade portion- I ended up writing a check for, essentially, double that amount, but (like you) I had the opportunity to address a raft of pre-existing issues with old wiring, switches and other elements. You're wise to mention bthem, thoughm, as such things do always arise, don't they?

Not complaining- this is how you catch the things that could hurt you, before they have the chance to do so (like, say, and antenna connector chafing against a fuel line!).

flyersfan31 said:
I think you are absolutely right. They have no incentive to do otherwise.
Click to expand...

If King would ever actually roll out the ephemeral KSN770, the incentive would exist. Until King does, Garmin won't.
 
We need a couple of 430W's and one 530W if anybody hears of one that needs a home.
 
FlyNE said:
First, I need an aircraft. :D

Basically, in doing what all pilots do (troll barnstormers/aso/controller/etc looking for my airplane) I've noticed that 172s with 430s are expensive and I want WAAS. So, I was just trying to get a handle on what I was looking at. I was thinking I could just find a good deal on one without a 430 and add it.
Click to expand...

Honestly, find the airplane that already has a 430 in it. You will pay pennies on the dollar verse paying full price to stick a 430 in it.

Worse case, you find the 172 w/ a 430 and you do the WAAS upgrade. Plan on spening another $4000 +/- to get WAAS and Terrain.

Your mileage may vary :)
 
FlyNE said:
Hmm. That sucks. :)

How much is the upgrade? Ron said $3000, but I believe that is only the Garmin nut, correct? How much to actually install it in, say, a 172?

How much to get a new one installed if you find the right price?
Click to expand...

If you already have a 430 installed in your C172, you can expect 10 to 15 hours of labor to install a new coax cable, replace the antenna, add an annunciator. The cost of the annunciator will be in the $500 to $1000 category. There is about $1200 in margin in the upgrade price which you should be able to negotiate half of that off or $2,400 net to you. You are responsible for shipping expenses back to the factory for the upgrade. Assuming labor is $80 per hour, I would estimate it would run between $3,700 and $4,100. Add shipping and sales tax. Adjust for higher or lower shop install rate.

If you are installing a new 430W, expect about 30 to 40 hours of labor, plus the 430W, plus the annunciator, plus a CDI. List on the 430W is $10,750, the annunciator about $500, and a CDI about $1700. You can likely get discounts on the hardware equal to the labor cost.
 
John Collins said:
If you are installing a new 430W, expect about 30 to 40 hours of labor, plus the 430W, plus the annunciator, plus a CDI. List on the 430W is $10,750, the annunciator about $500, and a CDI about $1700. You can likely get discounts on the hardware equal to the labor cost.
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I am getting a 430W installed this week. I am being told no annuciator is required for the unit, I already have the correct CDI installed and it is still going to cost me about $10.5k.

Speaking of that install. I will have a working KLN90b, antenna, and annuciator for sale, if anyone is interested.
 
smigaldi said:
I am getting a 430W installed this week. I am being told no annuciator is required for the unit, I already have the correct CDI installed and it is still going to cost me about $10.5k.

Speaking of that install. I will have a working KLN90b, antenna, and annuciator for sale, if anyone is interested.
Click to expand...

I believe the annuciator requirement has to do where the unit sits in your field of vision. It will be different in your Cherokee than it would be in a 172.
 
FlyNE said:
I believe the annuciator requirement has to do where the unit sits in your field of vision. It will be different in your Cherokee than it would be in a 172.
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yep
Finally, depending upon where your GPS unit is located in the cockpit, you may need an external annunciator installed. It turns out that the requirements in FAA TSO-C146a, are far more specific about receiver location than is TSO-C129a, which governs traditional GPS installations. Specifically, the left edge of the 430W can be no more than 11.8" from the pilot's primary view centerline, and the 530W cannot be more than 12.1" away. Also, the top of the 400/500 series unit can't be lower than the bottom edge of the primary flight instruments. If a unit falls outside of this specification, an external annunciator must be installed near the pilot to annunciate the various receiver modes. The required annunciators are: VLOC, GPS, INTEG, TERM, APR, MSG, and WPT.
Click to expand...
http://www.g1000book.com/Garmin 430W 530W.htm
 
smigaldi said:
I am getting a 430W installed this week. I am being told no annuciator is required for the unit, I already have the correct CDI installed and it is still going to cost me about $10.5k.
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If that's with installation, tax, tags and freight, it sounds like a pretty good price.

BTW, the Grumman AA-5-series panel meets the criteria for no-annunciator installation in the standard radio stack, but the shop has to measure from the center of the pilot seat, not the AI or yoke, which are offset to the left from seat center. Note that any of those three points may be used as the reference point for that measurement, and you can take the closest.
 
FlyNE said:
I believe the annuciator requirement has to do where the unit sits in your field of vision. It will be different in your Cherokee than it would be in a 172.
Click to expand...

We did not need an annunciator for the 430W in the 182, I would bet that a 172 wouldn't require it either.
 
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