G5 installtion progress [[Previously: Opinions on my panel]]
- Thread starter WannFly
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Meet the Fokkers
and now I need a new overlay for the left panel
Go for the wood grain contact paper.
ok.. nevermind.
You better not do that to my wife!
Indiana_Pilot
Line Up and Wait
Finally have my G5 install complete! I love it so far!! Good luck with yours!
WannFly
Final Approach
Finally I see the light at the end of the tunnel. The TBM 700 that the guy was working on is finally gone, we did some aluminum cutting and painting today, G5 needs the classic round holes, mine are big square. Hoping to put the radios all back tomorrow and then configuration and calibration the following day. Haven’t flown in 3 weeks... may have forgotten to land 
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Landing Fees
Pre-takeoff checklist
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Landing Fees
The G5's are perhaps one of our better upgrades. Not certain where some of the confusion about capability come from, perhaps I am misinterpreting some of the comments but you can fly VOR/ILS/RNAV approaches. The sticking point for us now is even through we have put parts money down and have a GFC500 coming to the shop, we don't have the STC for the R182.
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WannFly
Final Approach
Just spent all day at the avionics shop tinkering around with things. All instruments are in where they below, G5 test fitting done. Pending my items are putting the radios in, pitot static plumbing, G5 configuration and calibration. Hoping for a test flight sometime next week. 
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gacoon
Pre-takeoff checklist
Did you consider flush mounting them?
WannFly
Final Approach
rt now flush mounting wont help since the JPI that will sit rt next to the Altimeter and will stick out anyway. down the road i have plans to put in a all metal panel, when i do, they are getting flush mounted. now that you mention it... may be i should planned the flush mounting kit for JPI as well... o well...
I've considered cutting a square hole in the current plastic overlay. Would make it easier to remove the panel when someone needs to work on the panel. But first I need to get a G5.
Timbeck2
Final Approach
Do the rest of you Cherokee guys have carpet that goes over the spar like that? Not saying anything is wrong, in fact I hope its right because mine isn't like that and it looks like crap.
WannFly
Final Approach
Not sure if the Q is for me or not, if it is... it’s not 140, it’s 181
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WannFly
Final Approach
Week 4
AP issue is resolved. turned out to be a bad connector that got dislodged in the right panel while all the wire running expeditions. did the GMU 11 calibration today and it passed with flying colors. everything is working from what i can tell on the ground. but the test flight did not happen. during the pitot-static test when the Pitot mast was being pulled out, the heating element broke. part has been ordered... so may be late next week... on a side note, finally found a SL-30 face plate and finally doesnt look crappy (the SL70 under it now looks crappy)
this is getting beyond frustrating.
AP issue is resolved. turned out to be a bad connector that got dislodged in the right panel while all the wire running expeditions. did the GMU 11 calibration today and it passed with flying colors. everything is working from what i can tell on the ground. but the test flight did not happen. during the pitot-static test when the Pitot mast was being pulled out, the heating element broke. part has been ordered... so may be late next week... on a side note, finally found a SL-30 face plate and finally doesnt look crappy (the SL70 under it now looks crappy
)this is getting beyond frustrating.
Ravioli
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Thank god you have the fantabulous tapered wing so you can float on landing.
But really... two things that will always be underestimated on avionics work are Time and Cost. It's frustrating now, but in a month you'll have forgotten it.
WannFly
Final Approach
Yup, I carry some extra speed down and get my float plane experience
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But you have 4 hours of back up power from the built in battery. Yes
bnt83
Final Approach
The G5 DG isn't helpful if the GMU11 is offline (not powered by the battery backup) and your panel mounted navigator is offline (not powered by the battery backup).
You have this:
Your panel is coming along nicely. Good things take time. Here is a pic of my Archer upgrade with a G5 HSI. I still need to have the G5 HSI heading bug issue resolved, but have not been back to the shop yet. I'm having too much fun with the GPSS...love it.
Question- Is your G5 HSI connected to the battery bus? My G5 first powers up when the Battery switch is turned on. It may need to come on first by design.
Briar Rabbit
Line Up and Wait
No DG?
The G5 HSI can be switched from HSI mode to PFD mode. It is currently showing PFD mode which makes for a great back-up AI that works even when you loose electical power.
Briar Rabbit
Line Up and Wait
I did not know that, neat.
WannFly
Final Approach
It’s connected to master. Most PFD I have seen is connected to master, like G1000. I may have the same issue as yours, went to th shop yesterday, the AP won’t follow the heading
bug on the ground. It goes on a full right deflection.... avionics guy said he will look into it. Ur suspicions may be correct, something wrong with the wiring instructions from Garmin may be.
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arkvet
Line Up and Wait
Great looking panel! I am in the process of having the 2nd G5 installed in my PA32-301. I have a Century 41 AP that relies on the vacuum AI so I had to retain the original AI for that purpose. I moved it to the T/C hole and installed the G5 AI in the primary AI hole. Since that install the G5 HSI became certified... I was planning to drag my feet on that addition but recently my NSD-360 HSI began giving me some issues so it was time to make the move.
As this 2nd G5 is being added to my plane it has really made me start thinking about partial panel / alternator failure / vacuum failure / etc. A little over a year ago I was flying a plane where a vacuum failure was a pretty significant event. Standard 6 pack. No electric or backup AI (other than my Ipad and Foreflight) which I really don't trust. Since that time my panel has slowly evolved to be more dependent on the electrical system. I'm studying hard to understand the exact method(s) of failure and have yet to come to any firm conclusions. I thought this thread might be a good place to chime in on that topic.
Here's my panel:
Dual G5's (HSI has GMU-11 and GAD29b)
vacuum AI in T/C hole - to drive AP and even provide a backup AI in the event of a complete electrical failure.
Nav/Com #1 - Avidyne IFD 550- has true SV
Nav/Com #2 - KX155 w/out glideslope / has it's own CDI.
JPI 830
GMA 340
Avidyne remote ADSB transponder (in and out)
So here are the two primary modes of failure:
1- vacuum- almost a non-event as it does kill my autopilot, but I honestly haven't been relying on the vacuum AI for the primary scan anyway. I'll just have to hand fly and that should be pretty simple given my panel.
2- electrical failure - obviously an "event"! Let's look for the weak link shall we. One thing I love about the G5's is their huge independent battery. That's great. Should easily have a solid AI for the remainder of the flight. But wait... How about the HSI??? It's got power but will it work? Well, this where my head scratching starts. Assuming main-ship battery has depleted the GMU-11 magnetometer and the GAD29b will fail. Now my HSI is gone. Will it show track? Not if the IFD550, GMU-11, and GAD29B are all dead. So I'll essentially be left with an AI (OK 3 if you count the dual G5's and the vacuum AI) but zero NAV info. In this case declare an emergency and get vectored to the nearest airport.
I think the next step I need to take is to find out the power (amp) draw for each piece of equipment. Figure out which pieces are essential to get down and land and have a known time frame for that to happen. One thing I love about the JPI 830 is that I set a low voltage alarm, so I am instantly notified of an alternator failure.
I don't mean to hijack the thread. I just think as we transition more and more to electric panels it's super important to know the results of that failure and the steps to take to turn an emergency into a non-event. Power management will be critical with the last resort being what to do if/when it's all gone.
As this 2nd G5 is being added to my plane it has really made me start thinking about partial panel / alternator failure / vacuum failure / etc. A little over a year ago I was flying a plane where a vacuum failure was a pretty significant event. Standard 6 pack. No electric or backup AI (other than my Ipad and Foreflight) which I really don't trust. Since that time my panel has slowly evolved to be more dependent on the electrical system. I'm studying hard to understand the exact method(s) of failure and have yet to come to any firm conclusions. I thought this thread might be a good place to chime in on that topic.
Here's my panel:
Dual G5's (HSI has GMU-11 and GAD29b)
vacuum AI in T/C hole - to drive AP and even provide a backup AI in the event of a complete electrical failure.
Nav/Com #1 - Avidyne IFD 550- has true SV
Nav/Com #2 - KX155 w/out glideslope / has it's own CDI.
JPI 830
GMA 340
Avidyne remote ADSB transponder (in and out)
So here are the two primary modes of failure:
1- vacuum- almost a non-event as it does kill my autopilot, but I honestly haven't been relying on the vacuum AI for the primary scan anyway. I'll just have to hand fly and that should be pretty simple given my panel.
2- electrical failure - obviously an "event"! Let's look for the weak link shall we. One thing I love about the G5's is their huge independent battery. That's great. Should easily have a solid AI for the remainder of the flight. But wait... How about the HSI??? It's got power but will it work? Well, this where my head scratching starts. Assuming main-ship battery has depleted the GMU-11 magnetometer and the GAD29b will fail. Now my HSI is gone. Will it show track? Not if the IFD550, GMU-11, and GAD29B are all dead. So I'll essentially be left with an AI (OK 3 if you count the dual G5's and the vacuum AI) but zero NAV info. In this case declare an emergency and get vectored to the nearest airport.
I think the next step I need to take is to find out the power (amp) draw for each piece of equipment. Figure out which pieces are essential to get down and land and have a known time frame for that to happen. One thing I love about the JPI 830 is that I set a low voltage alarm, so I am instantly notified of an alternator failure.
I don't mean to hijack the thread. I just think as we transition more and more to electric panels it's super important to know the results of that failure and the steps to take to turn an emergency into a non-event. Power management will be critical with the last resort being what to do if/when it's all gone.
WannFly
Final Approach
these are great points and i am thinking about the same thing. i have read somewhere that with everything down G5 will still show ground track, i just cant wrap my head around... how? the internal GPS is disabled in the configuration. unless Garmin has a fall back option which will use the internal GPS no matter what in case the external GPS is lost, i dont see this happening. during an emergency, i guess one can reboot - go to config page- set the internal GPS to enabled. yah, its not allowed by STC, but if you are in IMC with complete electrical failure, STC is least of your worries. i guess this is one reason to go with the external antenna for GPS which i chose not to install.
my plan is after i get the plane back, grab a CFI and go for a ride and get used to all the button pushing and get some hood time and play out some emergency procedures like simulating a complete power loss and see how everything works.
the failure scenarios i have been thinking about are:
- vacuum failure - non event
- G5 PFD dead - non event with dual set up
- G5 HSI dead - non event in my set up with 480 (has a HSI page)
- Nav 1 dead - mostly non event with Nav 2 connected to a diff CDI
- complete power loss - thats the biggest one to get used to. i like your idea of finding out exactly which ones to switch off to shed some load, i will be doing the same. thanks for that idea
- Pitot - Static failure - this is another head scratcher. as per Garmin, posted from beechtalk somewhere in this thread, G5 uses the GPS (internal one first i think) to calculate airspeed etc. hows that gonna work with disabled internal GPS?
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bnt83
Final Approach
I think there is some smoke & mirrors proprietary strategy involved in the G5, but here is the AFMS. Not much of anything in the limitations section. You would think there would be something in there about IFR flight into areas with predicted GPS outage.
http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-13_05.pdf
http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01112-13_05.pdf
WannFly
Final Approach
when I get the plane back and fly with the master off, think will have a good idea on what happens in the DR mode. no way to find out pitot failure, but I will switch to alternate static and see how it affects G5
arkvet
Line Up and Wait
I think this may be the best idea of all. Go up on a CAVU day and kill the alternator (I have a split alt/master) and start a timer. See the dominos fall.
MooneyDriver78
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Tom
You can just pull the circuit breakers, that way you have a working transponder, etc.
WannFly
Final Approach
ha, that's a good idea for checking what happens when GMU and GAD is offline. I like the killing alternator too to see how much juice my battery has in case the alternator decides to take a crap
arkvet
Line Up and Wait
Good idea but other than my autopilot breaker I still have the old school breakers that don't pull. Probably an upgrade I should eventually do.
bnt83
Final Approach
You know that is easy to calculate?
My RG-35AXE Concorde battery is rated at 33 amp hours. Drawing 33 amps it would last about an hour.
Old lights in my plane burn a lot of amps.
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Please let me know what you find on the Heading bug issue. I have a feeling the Century AP "DG Select" ground jumper needs to be removed because we went from DG to HSI.
I have no idea why mine is connected to the Battery bus and not the Avionics Master. I will be asking the shop tomorrow because I now have a bigger problem. My G5 HSI display does not come on at all with Battery bus power or even by pushing the unit power button. Hope they have a spare unit in stock.
In case of loss of electrical power you should be in great shape with battery powered units like the G5 and a portable GPS. That will give you attitude(G5) and location/direction (portable GPS) for hours as long as you maintain your batteries. Even at night you will see the air speed and altitude. My understandling is that with loss of external GPS the G5 will rely on airspeed like other systems. When my G5 is up and running again, I will pull the breaker on the GTN-650 to see what happens to the PFD attitude.
We have so many back-up tools in these small planes compared to 20 years ago.
We have so many back-up tools in these small planes compared to 20 years ago.
WannFly
Final Approach
Please let me know what you find on the Heading bug issue. I have a feeling the Century AP "DG Select" ground jumper needs to be removed because we went from DG to HSI.
I have no idea why mine is connected to the Battery bus and not the Avionics Master. I will be asking the shop tomorrow because I now have a bigger problem. My G5 HSI display does not come on at all with Battery bus power or even by pushing the unit power button. Hope they have a spare unit in stock.
Went to the shop today, for mine it was a configuration issue, AP is now following the heading bug. I asked him about your issue, he said for my AP at least those DG connectors were removed and should be the case in yours too. Sorry to hear about your dead HSI, hope it’s something simple. And yes, it should be connected to master. Between the first time we ran the ADI it won’t power up on battery or ships power, not sure what he did to fix it but it has been running since.
Status for my install- waiting for the heating elements to get here and 6 inch of snow today didn’t help. Expected to come here tomorrow.
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WannFly
Final Approach
Haven’t seen a matrix like that for my plane apart from what’s there in the POH, 90% of those that came with the plane isn’t there anymore
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Ravioli
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I tend to disagree with ya. The G1000 is often the primary EMS, that's why it would need to heat up with the master. When the PFD is not also the EMS they can/should be wired to the avionics master.
I know that's the legacy Dynon way.
Can anyone with an Aspen or equivalent chime in?