Fuel Tank Capacity Placards - actual or useable?

"Fuel Capacity" placards indicate:

  • The number of usable gallons in the tank

    Votes: 5 33.3%

  • The actual gallons held in the tank

    Votes: 10 66.7%
  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
robertb

robertb

Pre-takeoff checklist
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robertb
Hello,
I have a Cessna 182P and a question regarding fuel capacity placards. I am not able to locate the original placard info in the POH. The specifications in the POH show 79 usable and 84 total gallons of fuel. The current placard by the fuel cap shows "Capacity 39 Gallons" and there are two tanks. These were painted on during a repaint a long, long time ago. I am going to be using the plane for a checkride soon and need to have my mechanic put on new stickers to make sure everything is legible. After some research, I am still at a loss and know there is infinite wisdom here. So, what says you all?
Answers are great but backing it up with a CFR reference would be cool too.
Thanks in advance!
 
Fuel selector and placards show usable, POH documents both.

Actual usable when I measured for JPI calibration was a little more than documented actual.
 
It depends on the plane. For my Mooney, Section II shows that fuel tank filler placards are USEABLE fuel.



Fuel Placards.JPG
 
Why not just put all the info at the filler cap...minimum fuel grade, total capacity and useable..CYA.
 
Doug Reid said:
Why not just put all the info at the filler cap...minimum fuel grade, total capacity and useable..CYA.
Click to expand...

The wing placards aren’t for the owner/pilot, if you don’t know what fuel or capacity of your tanks you’re incompetent and should have certification revoked.
The placards are for the line guy, they don’t need to know usable vs total.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
The wing placards aren’t for the owner/pilot, if you don’t know what fuel or capacity of your tanks you’re incompetent and should have certification revoked.
The placards are for the line guy, they don’t need to know usable vs total.
Click to expand...

The line guy doesn't need to know the capacity of the tank either, though, as the fuel order will just say something like "20 gallons a side" or "top off". The actual capacity is irrelevant to the fueler.
 
RussR said:
The line guy doesn't need to know the capacity of the tank either, though, as the fuel order will just say something like "20 gallons a side" or "top off". The actual capacity is irrelevant to the fueler.
Click to expand...

Other than give them an idea of the capacity, I’ve often been asked how much do I expect to need when I say top it off, not sure why.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Other than give them an idea of the capacity, I’ve often been asked how much do I expect to need when I say top it off, not sure why.
Click to expand...
Make sure there’s enough left in the truck to fuel you? Make you won’t exceed your credit limit?
 
FWIW, there's an older AD that reduces the usable and total fuel by, I think, two gallons per side. The basis of the AD is that on 182 models with bladders, wrinkles in the bladder can cause fuel to not drain down fully. 182P models s/n 62251 thru 63590 are subject to the AD. The AD is 75-16-01. Cessna also has a service letter that deals with the issue of fuel quantity placards. SE75-7.

HTH!
 
Anyone have a link to Cessna Service letter SE75-7 on fuel quantity? Google is coming up blank.
 
Obviously, Textron is really worried about "SAFETY FIRST" so they want to charge us for the Service Information. Here's the next best thing:

In the A.D. 75-16-01 it provides the corrected Placard part numbers.

Here are the links with photos of the placards:

Standard Tanks Placard P/N 0705023-8 & Long Range Tanks Placard P/N 0705023-9 .

Standard Tanks Fuel Selector Placard P/N 0705048-25 & Long Range Selector Placard P/N 0705048-26 .
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Other than give them an idea of the capacity, I’ve often been asked how much do I expect to need when I say top it off, not sure why.
Click to expand...

So they and your plane don’t take a 100LL bath. Seriously. They just want to have an idea of when to slow the pumping down.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
I assume they can look into the tank like I do.
Click to expand...
If you have multiple tanks, and some of them aren't going to need much fuel, then it's polite to tell the line guy this when you ask for a top off. Also, not all tanks have fuel you can see even just a few gallons from full.

In the work plane (King Air 300), there is a main and an aux tank in each wing. The aux tanks automatically feed first, then when they're empty the mains feed. Sometimes we will have a short flight where we barely empty the auxes, meaning the mains are still mostly full. So, to be polite, we point this out when asking for a top off. Because the line guy doesn't really expect a King Air tank to be full after just 5 or 10 gallons, and won't be expecting to have to pay close attention to avoid a kerosene shower at that point.
 
Haven’t you ever wondered why they don’t use auto shut off nozzles like we use on our cars?
 
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Gary Ward said:
Haven’t you ever wondered why they don’t use auto shut off nozzles like we use on our cars?
Click to expand...
The pressure type refuel systems all have auto shutoff. As to over the wing type refuel nozzles the main reason is they dont work with most aircraft. There are auto-shutoff over wing nozzles but they must be designed for the specific application and don't move the same amount of fuel. Plus they don't last very long for some reason.
 
Klaus M said:
Obviously, Textron is really worried about "SAFETY FIRST" so they want to charge us for the Service Information. Here's the next best thing:
Click to expand...
Service letters/bulletins, parts lookup, and parts manuals are available free. You just have to create an account.
 
AFAIK fuel filler placards and fuel selector placards are in Usable fuel. That is the important number.
 
Nope. Most have total fuel at the filler, useable at the selector. Like Bell206 showed with that TCDS page.
The TCDS has it for older airplanes, the AFM for newer craft. The maintenance manuals also have it, like so:

1697206188182.png

IIRC there was also a FAR that specified it this way. Can't find it anymore. Must be in one of the ACs now.
 
That does not show the required placards.

Here is the placard from my POH. There is no place that you need or care about total fuel. For W&B, the unuseable is in included in the empty weight. Some aircraft to seem to placard the total fuel at the filler port, but that is not a useful number.

1697288676566.png

From C-182 POH

1697289103465.png
 
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Pinecone said:
Some aircraft to seem to placard the total fuel at the filler port, but that is not a useful number.
Click to expand...
Much like some aircraft have airspeed indicator markings in CAS. The FAA probably changed their minds at some point.
 
texasclouds said:
Where do y’all buy your placards from?
Click to expand...
I made my own with a label maker years ago and they are holding up fine.

This past summer at Oshkosh, Hartwig was giving away these so I grabbed a couple.
BTW Hartwig is the best place to take a leak.
They have some great welders there and Bruce Hartwig is a expert and and very nice guy who took quite a bit of time with me on the phone. They did a unbelievable job of repairing one of my tanks.
(edited)_IMG_3448.png
 
Gary Ward said:
BTW Hartwig is the best place to take a leak.
Click to expand...
My brother-in-law used to have a radiator repair shop. That was his company tag line. He said it was a common thing in that industry.

1697396154497.png
 
Gary Ward said:
Haven’t you ever wondered why they don’t use auto shut off nozzles like we use on our cars?
Click to expand...

Not really. Those nozzles are a nightmare of click-off frustration when they're not maintained, and I swear half of the 100LL self-serves I visit lately can't even properly maintain the static line, which is a reel, a spring clip, and a length of steel wire.
 
There used to be a radiator shop right across the side street, I have watched them repair so many radiators and tanks.
There used to be a every kind of professional repair shop with in walking distance from my shop back in the late 80s.
Not today...sorry the radiator shop ad took me back.
 
Gary Ward said:
Not today...sorry the radiator shop ad took me back.
Click to expand...
I am likely older than you, and I remember small appliance repair shops, TV and radio repair shops, shoe repair shops, furniture repair and upholstery shops, and so on. Gas stations did car repairs.

Automation killed a lot of that. It's cheaper to buy a new item than to fix the old one, and in the case of electronics, the miniaturization of the componentry makes it pretty much impossible anyway. Cars now require little more than oil and filter changes. By the time the engine is worn out, the rest of the car is, too.
 
schmookeeg said:
Not really. Those nozzles are a nightmare of click-off frustration when they're not maintained, and I swear half of the 100LL self-serves I visit lately can't even properly maintain the static line, which is a reel, a spring clip, and a length of steel wire.
Click to expand...
Can't argue with that^^^^
I am lucky I guess as the airports I get my fuel from are pretty well maintained.
I have gotten 100LL from a auto shut off nozzle a few times at far away airports.

I have owned a fuel company for a long time. I maintain plenty of 3/4 and 1"(truck diesel nozzles) that are auto shutoff. They are fool proof now a days just as long as you order the right nozzle for the right application.

The problem I see is most aircraft fuel islands are 1 1/4" hose for the 100LL and they don't make auto shutoff nozzles that big.

I have oil tanker trucks that use 1 1/4" delivery hose. We use ball valve shut off nozzles that can close faster than a dashpot style lever nozzle but are not auto shut.

IMO most planes/helicopters could use a 1" hose and a auto shutoff nozzle and be cheaper to maintain. 1 1/4" hose and nozzles are more expensive than 1" stuff.
1" hose and nozzles are used at truck stops to dispense 150gals of diesel at a time.
I think 1" hose is big enough to dispense 50 gals into our planes, 25 gals at time into my plane.
 
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Problem with auto shutoffs for airplanes is you have to hold them above the tank anyway, since there’s generally not a filler neck.

that and it probably messes them up when the line guys drag them across the ramp and fill them up with gravel when they rewind the hose. :rolleyes:
 
MauleSkinner said:
Problem with auto shutoffs for airplanes is you have to hold them above the tank anyway, since there’s generally not a filler neck.

that and it probably messes them up when the line guys drag them across the ramp and fill them up with gravel when they rewind the hose. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
True and true.
I could slow fill with a auto nozzle with the tip rested against the filler opening on a 172 so it was grounded.
No nozzle should be dragged on the ground. Ours are put into a holder on the truck first and then the hose is wound up. I have seen the same at airports tanker trucks I have witnessed.

But overall I think you are right.
 
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MooneyDriver78 said:
The wing placards aren’t for the owner/pilot, if you don’t know what fuel or capacity of your tanks you’re incompetent and should have certification revoked.
The placards are for the line guy, they don’t need to know usable vs total.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna go with (C) They are there because of the CFRs required them. They are not a line guy or pilot tool.

Changing them to something other than the appropriate and required ones as shown in the TCDS, STC, AD, Flight Manual, or Parts Manual verbiage would be illegal.
 
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