FSX help or not?

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Mtns2Skies

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Mtns2Skies
I was wondering if you think flying the flight simulator before starting training helps. Some say it doesn't because it teaches you to keep your head down, I can't argue with that. Others say it helps to give you an idea of flight. I was wondering what you think?
 
I agree with Scott, stay away from FSX while doing your PPL training, then use it when you start your IR.
 
I agree with both Scott and Dean. Not to say that you can't have fun with FSX during the PPL training Just don't use it now to work on "flying skills" When you get to the point where you have to track a VOR in your PPL that would be a good time to use it to help training.​
 
Add me to the list -- no Flight Sim for learning basic skills (and thus primary training).

FSX is useful for navigation, some radio phraseology (except "With you" -- grrrrr!!!), panel knobology, and some IR stuff.

Students who I've flown with who have used Flight Sims for prep are consistently bad at landings, looking for traffic, and fundamental airplane attitude flying skills without the panel.

Save yourself some re-training time and limit Flight Sim to the aforementioned tasks and you'll be better off.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
dmccormack said:
some radio phraseology (except "With you" -- grrrrr!!!),
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Some people make too much out of something that just doesn't matter that much.
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Uhm...what's wrong with "with you"? That's what I hear from everyone, all the way up to airline pilots, and what I was taught by my CFI to use.

Heck, I have a hard enough time trying to convince one guy that "10-4" is a bad idea.

In any event, I'll go along with the other folks here: stay away from FS until you're comfortable flying the airplane.
 
Wait till your IR. The sim doesnt handle like a real airplane but it can save you a ton of bread on your instrument training. Great for procedures.
 
jmaynard said:
Uhm...what's wrong with "with you"? That's what I hear from everyone, all the way up to airline pilots, and what I was taught by my CFI to use.
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Because it is not specifically authorized in the Pilot/Controller glossary. :(
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Debatable.
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I still won't say "with you", but I was surprised recently, when flying with an old hand, to hear him say that every time we were handed off.
Other thing he said a lot that I found unusual was "thanks".:D
That I'm OK with; I often thank a controller, especially when they've called traffic for me. A little grease for the wheels...
 
rottydaddy said:
I still won't say "with you", but I was surprised recently, when flying with an old hand, to hear him say that every time we were handed off.
Other thing he said a lot that I found unusual was "thanks".:D
That I'm OK with; I often thank a controller, especially when they've called traffic for me. A little grease for the wheels...
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Absolutely -- "Thanks, " "Good Day," "Good Morning, Approach..." and the like are good form, and -- as you noted -- frequency congestion dependent.

Not long ago I hear Potomac tell a Southwest flight "Direct Snow Hill."

"We have the technology! Direct Snow Hill!"
 
dmccormack said:
Not long ago I hear Potomac tell a Southwest flight "Direct Snow Hill."

"We have the technology! Direct Snow Hill!"
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My favorite was still this one...

Controller: "Northwest 123, upon reaching FL350, cleared direct Detroit Metro Airport."
Pilot: "There IS a Santa Claus!" :rofl:

FWIW, I haven't heard anyone use "With You" in quite a while. I think it's being eradicated. :yes:
 
I used a sim for years before I started my PPL training, used it during my training, and I've used it after my training. I felt it helped me, I was able to do an ILS in actual on my discovery flight (true story).
 
FS is good for navigation and instrument procedures. I used to use it alot before I started my PPL (I know its a technically a cert) and it helped with smoothly handling the controls. The landings however ...
 
jmaynard said:
Uhm...what's wrong with "with you"? That's what I hear from everyone, all the way up to airline pilots, and what I was taught by my CFI to use.
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Houston Center, Vans Two-Seven-Seven-Delta-Lima with you, level one-zero-thousand.

Two-Seven-Seven-Delta-Lima, I know everyone in this radar room and you're not here!
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:D

It just doesn't sound right.

Oh, and nix the flight sim until you have your private ticket.
 
dmccormack said:
FSX is useful for navigation, some radio phraseology (except "With you" -- grrrrr!!!), panel knobology, and some IR stuff.
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and squawk codes that are kinda of... well, impossible. "squawk 2681"
 
Like others said, I'd be careful using it during initial training. Like others said, it doesn't handle or feel like a real plane, especially with no rudder pedals. However, I did use it for check list practice (where are various things located).
 
I'm going to stick with Jesse and go against the grain here... I used FS2004 and VATSIM especially for years before taking flight lessons. I felt that it was incredibly helpful. No, it was not like "flying" a real plane, you still had to get meat in the seat to learn how to operate the equipment safely and proficiently, and yes, I did need to train myself to look outside the airplane. However, I did learn a lot about the theory behind flying, airspaces, procedures, airport markings, etc. Go through the lessons in FS, they contain a lot of the same knowledge you'll be learning in your actual ground school. Get on VATSIM (http://www.vatsim.net) and do some VFR flights online. This more than anything else was the biggest benefit to me as it allowed me to get comfortable with talking on the radio and the phraseology before getting into the plane. This made one less thing for me to worry about and allowed me to concentrate on flying the plane more since my radio responses were pretty much automatic right out of the gate.

A few examples: 1) The first time I flew with the gentleman who later became my mentor we were doing sight-seeing in his Bonanza around the Houston Class B. He let me fly for a bit and I took the radios too. I followed vectors back to final at Hobby before he took over again for the landing. After landing, my mentor asked me how long I'd had my license and how many hours I had, thinking it had to be more than 100. In actuality, I was a 9-hour student at the time. He was surprised.

2) I was in Spokane, WA on business and took a discovery flight with a forum friend of mine from www.aviationforum.org and his CFI. Here's the video:


I was a 13-hr student at this time. Note while we were on approach my friend saying "He's got 13 hours and I've got 60 and he's way better than me on the radio!" I replied by attributing it to the amount of time I have on VATSIM.

3) I was out practicing maneuvers with my CFI (I had about 25 hrs at this time) and clouds started rolling in. It was Broken at about 1000' AGL, so we called for a pop-up IFR clearance back to the airport. He called and got the clearance. We were cleared for the ILS Approach:

"Cessna two-niner-echo, descend and maintain 1200, cleared direct HULLO, maintain 1200 until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 35 approach. Contact Sugar Land tower on 118.65 when you reach HULLO."

My CFI started reaching for the PTT, but I waived him off and hit mine and did a perfect readback. He looked at me incredulously and said, "you're so ready to start your IR training."

So, to close, my point was not to toot my own horn, but rather to illustrate how helpful Flight Sim can be in your initial training, if used properly.
 
t0r0nad0 said:
I'm going to stick with Jesse and go against the grain here... I used FS2004 and VATSIM especially for years before taking flight lessons. I felt that it was incredibly helpful. No, it was not like "flying" a real plane, you still had to get meat in the seat to learn how to operate the equipment safely and proficiently, and yes, I did need to train myself to look outside the airplane....

So, to close, my point was not to toot my own horn, but rather to illustrate how helpful Flight Sim can be in your initial training, if used properly.
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I agree that Flight Sims can help new pilots with procedural activities (Radio, comm settings, GPS, Nav, etc).

But Flight sims are weak in replicating certain phases of flight (landing, turbulence, pilotage), and thus those should be learned in a real airplane.

Flight Sim pilots need to be reminded to look out the windscreen, and how to feel coordination without looking at the ball.
 
I agree with most of the statements for and against, however, with some of the add-on scenery packages available today, pilotage and dead-reckoning navigation are definitely becoming more and more possible in the sim. Previously, it was almost impossible to navigate with references to landmarks because everything was so generalized that entire towns, bodies of water or smaller roads would not be present. It made navigation by radio navaids or GPS a must unless you were familiar enough with the area to know how to get around.

With FSX, Ground Environment X and Ultimate Terrian X, I've been able to fly 200+ mile x/c flights with nothing more than a sectional, DG, airspeed indicator and altimeter. Rivers and lakes are where they should be, towns are more accurately represented, and there are actually roads smaller than major 4 lanes running where they should be. I make it a point to keep the eyepoint at a level where I'm normally only looking at the top row of gauges, AI, airspeed and altitude. I know this doesn't help for someone trying to keep up their panel scan, but it does force you to look out of the "windscreen" to keep yourself pointed in the right direction.
 
well, i'd say Flight sim is good at helping you understand procedures and how things work. as a student pilot when learning about VORs, flight sim was very helpful.

it'll be best for instrument training! but yes, some of the things "With you" are innapropriate. and they could at least give me a g'day every now and then!

PJ, did you check the intercom settings? could they be restricted crew?
 
ntbjounin said:
PJ, did you check the intercom settings? could they be restricted crew?
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I assume you're asking about the video. The plane itself only had a two-place intercom. My friend had his own intercom box that he plugged into the plane's right side headset jack. I was plugged directly into the plane's left side headset jack. The intercom box had a "Pilot" jack and a "Co-Pilot" jack. The CFI was plugged into the Pilot side and my friend was plugged into the Co-Pilot side, and all I could hear through the plane's intercom was the CFI.
 
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