Free FR

AKBill

AKBill

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AKBill
A friend gave me a FR yesterday. When I asked how much he wanted he said "you help me out a lot no charge"..:) Good to go for another 2 years...:)

I normally pay $100 to $150 for a FR. So that was a pleasant ending to a nice flight.

My engine out landing spot would not have worked out well. He picked a bad area for an engine out, I would have been swimming to shore..:( Or balled up on a very rocky beach. All and all we had fun.
 
Great deal!

Swimming works if it’s a short swim in warm water. I’d rather ditch just off shore than land on a rocky beach. Given those choices I think you made the right one.
 
Nice! My dad and I have a CFI friend that gives us FR for free. I always make sure to be extra nice to him. :)
 
lancie00 said:
Nice! My dad and I have a CFI friend that gives us FR for free. I always make sure to be extra nice to him. :)
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Haha post that on one of the aviation forums that caters to more professionals and you’ll get a page or three of how that CFI is stealing food from the mouths of the full time CFI’s babies.

It’s fun to watch the differences in forums.
 
I've been fortunate to have good friends like that. My last BFR was awesome, and I learned a thing or two. A buddy of mine did it, and he would not take a dime from me. Two hours well spent!

On the flip side -- I met a guy who was new to the area and happened to be a CFI. I think he was trying to get in good with the gang, and after a having a beer or two with a few of us he said with a smile, "...oh, by the way, none of you will ever need to worry about a BFR. I've got a pen and can take care of that." Some people don't realize how much first impressions matter... I never took him up on that offer, and I never forgot the impression that he left on me. (hint - not a good one)
 
AKBill said:
A friend gave me a FR yesterday. When I asked how much he wanted he said "you help me out a lot no charge"..:) Good to go for another 2 years...:)

I normally pay $100 to $150 for a FR. So that was a pleasant ending to a nice flight.
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I had that experience earlier this year, with an instructor who also works for the University and is trying to revive a flight training program here. A couple of times during the year I showed off my plane to some of his students, and once even gave one of them an unofficial "discovery flight", so that might be part of why. I offered to pay him after we landed, but he wouldn't hear of it.
 
I've not paid for a flight review in a decade or more. For years, as long as I let my instructor get three landings in my SEL he was happy (he flew for the AF so he didn't maintain currency in light planes). The last two flight reviews were done by neighbors.
 
I've never paid for a flight review.

But in the past 44 years of flying I've done less than 4 of them.
 
Do CFIs have to get FRs, or does is there a CFI type review that overrides it?
 
Salty said:
Do CFIs have to get FRs, or does is there a CFI type review that overrides it?
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FRs like anybody else.

Amount of torture may be higher than a typical FR depending on how well you know them. LOL.

If you’re a low timer like me, and a five digit hours CFI asks for an FR, it’s usually a challenge to find an hour of ground that will be meaningful if they’re actively teaching. I’ve done one of those.

Actually the funny part about that high timer’s FR was the other CFI had been flying all stuff with no carb heat, and no carb for that matter. Catching them not applying carb heat became the running joke that afternoon.

“Is there maybe one more lever down there you might have forgotten about when you pulled the power back? Might there be a lamented document thing sitting there on the glareshield that might have been helpful?” Hahaha.

LOL! Habits!

Interesting to see them affect ANYBODY. :)
 
Salty said:
Do CFIs have to get FRs, or does is there a CFI type review that overrides it?
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Same rules apply to all pilots, whether they also have a CFI certificate or not. The one concession given CFIs is we don't need to have the hour of ground.
 
pburger said:
On the flip side -- I met a guy who was new to the area and happened to be a CFI. I think he was trying to get in good with the gang, and after a having a beer or two with a few of us he said with a smile, "...oh, by the way, none of you will ever need to worry about a BFR. I've got a pen and can take care of that." Some people don't realize how much first impressions matter... I never took him up on that offer, and I never forgot the impression that he left on me. (hint - not a good one)
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You wouldn't happen to have this guys number? I kid, I kid. :)

Over the years I have had one free one and one I wrapped into some other training I was doing anyway. I have a year left before my next one although thinking of seeing if a buddy CFI wants to go for a ride soon and do one so I can push it out.
 
I paid for part of my IR training with Irish Nachos at Dublin Bay restaurant in Ames, IA. Man, those sound really good right now don't they @tonycondon ?
 
A flight instructor does not need the "ground" hour if she has had a FIRC in the past two years.
 
I flew an elderly CFI to and from Oshkosh. On the advice of a friend I asked him for a FR after we landed. I think he was chuffed to do it. Earned it too. We talked plenty, I demonstrated slow flight, steep turns, navigation, short field landing and soft field taxi, among other things.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Same rules apply to all pilots, whether they also have a CFI certificate or not. The one concession given CFIs is we don't need to have the hour of ground.
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kgruber said:
A flight instructor does not need the "ground" hour if she has had a FIRC in the past two years.
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A busy CFI will often renew on number of passes... (or many other ways) and then ironically, they need that hour of ground during their FR.

That more don’t renew using the WINGS 15 hour path sure shows how little the program is used by folks. Most have the dual given and just don’t bother putting it in there.
 
My last several “flight reviews” consisted of the following: multi engine rating, seaplane rating, glider rating, tailwheel endorsement, seaplane refresher, and tailwheel refresher plus spin training. Who wants to do a plain old flight review? Of course, those all cost me a bit of change. Definitely not free.
 
midlifeflyer said:
That is not what the regulation says.
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LOL. Damn. Just went and looked. I guess I really beat him up then. We both got it wrong. :)

To be honest the person came to me and said they’d renewed via passes and thought they needed the full blown FR. I forgot the carve out for ground was across the board — see what happens when you don’t check these things? Hahaha.

Bad newbie CFI! No donut! Ha.

More is better than less? ;) At least nobody can accuse us of doing an easy FR! Hahaha.

Still surprised more don’t use WINGS. It’s not really that bad of a system but it just never gains any real popularity. Most folks who are flying actively usually have all the stuff they need in their logbook but they or their CFI don’t bother to click a few boxes.

The one part of WINGS that sucks is finding tasks. That search engine needs help. Or the task list just needs to be organized and not a pile of tasks without categories in a massive database table with no organization. Sometimes you can put in a key word and get the right thing, sometimes not.

Finding an add on CFI rating task in there is a ***** as I recall. Initial is easy to find.
 
"Wings" is so poorly designed, that at my last two day FIRC, I believe by AOPA, thay said not to even try to navigate all the hoops. Just forget it!!
 
kgruber said:
"Wings" is so poorly designed, that at my last two day FIRC, I believe by AOPA, thay said not to even try to navigate all the hoops. Just forget it!!
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That’s sad, but also kinda par for the course for the modern AOPA. It’s really not that bad.

It’s certainly a hell of a lot better written website than IACRA and everyone has figured that cluster**** out. LOL.

It’s like anything. If suddenly tomorrow FAA said it was all being done thru WINGS, everybody would have it figured out in a week. LOL.

What it really needs in 2019 is a decent mobile app on both platforms. Finish flight, click on things done, it figures out what credits to give, done.

But tech isn’t exactly a government high point. LOL.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of CAP, someone did manage to get their system linked with WINGS long ago. Enter a member CAPID in your WINGS profile and any checkride or activity logged in CAPs system auto generates credits in WINGS.

I’m amazed the big pilot mill 141 places don’t have similar done. I guess when everyone is getting new ratings there’s no need for FRs so no need to fight that battle — whatever the battle was to get two systems linked like that.

But if a school is using computer tracking of training, there should be an API to WINGS. In a modern IT world, anyway...

I never expect “modern IT” anywhere in aviation except the maintenance side. The mechanics seem to have decent tech, if they want to pay for it in a larger shop. Some of those packages will spit out the proper endorsements on stickers and such, perfectly written, and track all of it.

I suspect those shop toys are not cheap though.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Some of us have never done a FIRC either.
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I was able to bypass my FIRC this year. I went to my FSDO and renewed my CFI based on me being a 121 captain. The inspector told me this is FSDO dependent. Some will only renew if you’re a check airman. I showed the inspector in my FOM that one of my job responsibilities is to mentor FOs and “instruct” them and that was good enough for him.
 
Wings used to be a great program until some bureaucrats ruined it. I'd like to see how much the bribe was to let the contract for the wings enrollment site. What an unmitigated disaster.

Yep, any way the instructor renews his instructor certificate, he's free to skip the ground portion. Four out of five passes is just one of the ways. In fact, out of the vive ways an instructor can renew, only the FIRC is the one that seemingly has a "redundant" ground instruction portion.
 
denverpilot said:
Still surprised more don’t use WINGS. It’s not really that bad of a system but it just never gains any real popularity. Most folks who are flying actively usually have all the stuff they need in their logbook but they or their CFI don’t bother to click a few boxes.

The one part of WINGS that sucks is finding tasks. That search engine needs help. Or the task list just needs to be organized and not a pile of tasks without categories in a massive database table with no organization. Sometimes you can put in a key word and get the right thing, sometimes not.
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I've done flight reviews based on Wings. Some have even asked me to do it. This is the first year I have not had a Wings-based FR over the last 3 or 4 (I'm one flight short). My favorite was my "unintended flight review." I needed an insurance checkout. After the flight, I asked the instructor to sign off on the applicable flight tasks. I got the email that he signed off, follow by an email congratulating me on completing a phase and getting a new flight review.

I'm actually a huge fan of the concept. But yes, finding tasks is a big problem. As it turns out, it's not even about the search engine and lack of good organization (I did a seminar this past year on how to navigate the program; I left the official script to really talk about the good and the bad). A big part of the problem is that we need three different "Flight Topic" credits and at least for one of them, there are only one or two "Flight Activities" which meet them, so if you are looking for something new, good luck!
 
flyingron said:
In fact, out of the vive ways an instructor can renew, only the FIRC is the one that seemingly has a "redundant" ground instruction portion.
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Hey! Maybe I can actually get something right today... or at least be helpful...

There's way more than five ways to renew...

These are in 61.197: (You're right, there's five listed there, but it's the modern FAA and stuff has to be ridiculously scattered across multiple documents now! haha...)
1. Practical Test - for any CFI rating.
2.80% pass (4/5) on 5 candidates.
3. Serving as a "a company check pilot, chief flight instructor, company check airman, or flight instructor in a part 121 or part 135 operation, or in a position involving the regular evaluation of pilots." (24 months)
4. FIRC
5. Military IP or pilot examiner proficiency check. (Reg says 24 months - AC 61-65H says 12...ARGH, damnit FAA editors, pay attention.)

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AC 61-91J: (WINGS is so unloved it doesn't even get mentioned in the actual regs... sad.)

" Instructors are eligible to renew their flight instructor certificate through participation in WINGS. The holder of a current flight instructor certificate, who serves as a flight instructor in the FAA’s WINGS program, may renew his or her certificate in accordance with the following criteria, which is contained in the current edition of FAA Order 8900.1, Flight Standards Information Management System (FSIMS), Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 11. That certificated flight instructor (CFI) must: (1) Hold a flight instructor certificate that has not expired, (2) Hold a current phase of WINGS (at any level) at the time of application, (3) Have evaluated at least 15 WINGS-accredited flight activities (any level) during which the CFI evaluates at least five different pilots, and make appropriate endorsements in the logbook of each pilot for each activity, (4) Present a record to an aviation safety inspector (ASI) showing that the CFI has met the requirements of subparagraph 6e(3) above within the preceding 24 calendar-months before the month of application for renewal of his or her flight instructor certificate, and (5) Present a completed FAA Form 8710-1, Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application Supplemental Information and Instructions, to an authorized person for renewal of his or her flight instructor certificate."

TL;DR version: Current CFI, One WINGS level current, 15 WINGS flight activities, 5 pilots.

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Gold Seal Instructor Initial Issuance: Various places say this one gets you renewed, but as best as I can tell, it's in a bureaucratic way. Since it's an initial issuance of a "new" CFI certificate, it counts under 61.197. I can find no FAA reference for this other than that assumption and folks saying it works.

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And then there's the total mess one...

"Master CFI" from various orgs, after the NAFI/SAFE/**WHATEVER** blow up/disaster a decade ago.
Still a valid way, but bleh... CFI's bickering... and suing each other over intellectual property... yadda yadda...

NAFI Master CFI earns automatic renewal: (FAA authorization letter from 2009 linked on their website):
https://www.nafinet.org/assets/mastercfifiles/NAFI FAA Authorization Letter 2009.pdf
Same thing with the spin off from SAFE or initial IP holders or whatever the hell:
http://www.masterinstructors.org/cfi-renewal-option/
http://www.masterinstructors.org/wp-content/uploads/TCO-MICEP.pdf

* Many claim renewal of the various Master CFI things counts to renew the CFI ticket again. But I can find no FAA reference for this. YMMV.
** The whole NAFI/SAFE thing is embarassing to the profession. Don't get me started.

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And the murky one:
An inspector at a FSDO may renew any CFI certificate based upon "duties and responsibilities within the FSDO's jurisdiction". But most FSDOs won't do this anymore. It's really just an offshoot of the check pilot/airman thing, but long ago many FSDOs included being a 121 *Captain* (for example) as "regularly evaluation of pilots", the First Officer. Nobody reporting they're being quite that nice anymore at any FSDO I've seen.

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Attending an FAA CFI Workshop - this is NOT technically an FIRC but may (at FAA's discretion) be a renewal option. Not held often in most areas. Usually once a year at best.

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Wheeeeee... CFI renewals... :)

If anyone knows of actual FAA docs referring to any of the ones mentioned as not having one -- feel free to post and I'll edit this and credit you. Or, got any more? Hahaha...

(EDIT: Already forgot one, FAA Sponsored CFI Workshops. Added.)
 
jordane93 said:
I was able to bypass my FIRC this year. I went to my FSDO and renewed my CFI based on me being a 121 captain. The inspector told me this is FSDO dependent. Some will only renew if you’re a check airman. I showed the inspector in my FOM that one of my job responsibilities is to mentor FOs and “instruct” them and that was good enough for him.
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Oooh I was just typing that most FSDOs won’t do that anymore. You won the lottery. LOL.
 
denverpilot said:
Oooh I was just typing that most FSDOs won’t do that anymore. You won the lottery. LOL.
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Wait, the Denver FSDO used to do it for our captains...

I'm actually in the middle of doing an online FIRC. Every two years I mull over whether it's worth it or not, and if I will ever use it again. But I have heard too many stories from CFIs who were sad they let it expire.
 
@denverpilot If I was to do your FR, I think I would have you do commercial maneuvers under the hood to standards. Whatcha think about that? LOL Too mean? In your 182 to! You young CFI's need to be taught the right way. :D
 
flhrci said:
@denverpilot If I was to do your FR, I think I would have you do commercial maneuvers under the hood to standards. Whatcha think about that? LOL Too mean? In your 182 to! You young CFI's need to be taught the right way. :D
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Under the hood! I like it! LOL!

The fun part in mine is the chandelle with the R/STOL. It’s just kinda hanging there if you want at the end. It can take foooooorever to accelerate back to normal cruise waiting to get out of the back side of the curve. Same with stalls. They just become a massive sink rate. :)

That would look really strange under the hood. LOL. The chandelle that is. Have done stalls under.
 
denverpilot said:
Under the hood! I like it! LOL!

The fun part in mine is the chandelle with the R/STOL. It’s just kinda hanging there if you want at the end. It can take foooooorever to accelerate back to normal cruise waiting to get out of the back side of the curve. Same with stalls. They just become a massive sink rate. :)

That would look really strange under the hood. LOL. The chandelle that is. Have done stalls under.
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I haven;t done stalls under the hood myself. Interesting idea. I have done chandelles with primary students under the hood. That is fun for me.

Your plane sounds like it would be fun to try those maneuvers in with the STOL kit. What is the R part of the R/STOL?

David
 
flhrci said:
I haven;t done stalls under the hood myself. Interesting idea. I have done chandelles with primary students under the hood. That is fun for me.

Your plane sounds like it would be fun to try those maneuvers in with the STOL kit. What is the R part of the R/STOL?

David
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Robertson. As compared to one of the other makers.

It flies ridiculously slow. I really have no idea why someone put it on a 182, but it’s fun to play with.
 
denverpilot said:
Robertson. As compared to one of the other makers.

It flies ridiculously slow. I really have no idea why someone put it on a 182, but it’s fun to play with.
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Slow is good for pictures, bad for fuel economy. Might be really good for spirals to landing.
 
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