Found a buyer now what

k9medic said:
Goong through this right now so this thread it timely. Potential owner asked me to fly the plane 45 minutes away. I declined. He is welcome to bring a mechanic to my hangar.

On a side note to this - would it be appropriate to ask for a 10% deposit prior to allowing the pre buy?
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My contract says $2k down (about 5%) and if he walks away after the plane passes inspection I keep half.
 
k9medic said:
...On a side note to this - would it be appropriate to ask for a 10% deposit prior to allowing the pre buy?
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I actually had a purchase agreement signed before the pre buy. I had some outs but at that point it was pretty clear I wasn’t just a tire kicker.
 
Things are progressing. The buyers is a first time buyer and we had a conversation and I suggested he consult his attorney/banker to decide if he wants it registered in his and his brothers name or in an LLC. He is going to do some research. We will get together again on Tuesday to finalize the paperwork.
 
cgrab said:
I've done a few owner assisted annuals and it takes me two days to open all the inspection ports and pull all the interior so the mechanic can spend a couple of hours with the plane. Then a couple of days to put it back together. I guess I can offer this as an alternative. Bring on those 95 degree days.....
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Any mechanic who things he/she needs to open all panels and remove the interior for a routine pre-buy inspection doesn't know how to do pre-buy inspections. There is no good reasons to spend hours seeing of pulleys are worn or wire is chaffing. Those minor things don't affect the value of the deal. Time needs to be spend on the expensive stuff, and that starts with the logbooks.
 
If you go to him you run the risk of the plane being grounded, have his mechanic come to you. Or agree upon a neutral mechanic to do the pre buy.
 
frfly172 said:
If you go to him you run the risk of the plane being grounded, have his mechanic come to you. Or agree upon a neutral mechanic to do the pre buy.
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A mechanic cannot ground an aircraft while doing a pre-purchase inspection. Only the FAA has the power to ground an aircraft. That said, there is the potential that something is found that makes the seller believe that the plane is unairworthy.

The problem with not being willing to move the aircraft is that the space that the aircraft is in may not be suitable for such an inspection. It might be necessary to be willing to meet a neutral site, such as the seller's favorite shop and then let the buyer's mechanic come there.
 
Sad day today. I did a bunch of TNG's at the airport, pushed her into the hangar and wiped it down. I wanted to get one last flight in before the annual on Saturday and turning the plane over to the new owners. I had to get it in before the rains come later today.
 
steingar said:
If you really want to sell you do what the customer wants.
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Terrible advice unless you have a plane that's junk and you're desperate to offload onto some other poor soul.

If you have a good plane, it's the opposite - if you really want to buy, you do what the seller wants.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Terrible advice unless you have a plane that's junk and you're desperate to offload onto some other poor soul.

If you have a good plane, it's the opposite - if you really want to buy, you do what the seller wants.
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Obviously the Ted has spent very little time in sales.
 
steingar said:
The maxim I always heard growing up is. "the customer is always right". But obviously the Ted knows better because, well, he's the Ted.
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I heard that too. But it's wrong, and you should be smart enough to know that. Having sold somewhere on the order of 50-100 vehicles (cars, motorcycles, trucks, boats, airplanes...) in my life, I'll reckon I've got more selling experience than you, and more success at it. I've had people who bought cars from me ask me months/years later if I had anything for sale because they were so happy with what they bought. So apparently I'm not too bad at this.

Customer: "I want to pay $1 for that car"

Customer is not going to get that, unless it's at Steingar Motors where the customer is always right. Hence why Steingar hasn't made a bunch of money selling... anything.

Reality: The customer has rights, but is not always right. Markets work to determine pricing effectively. A good buyer knows a good deal and a good seller knows how to not be taken advantage of. Maybe that's why The Ted has had good success selling things for a profit (or at least break even) and is in a financially decent position.

But keep telling yourself you know more about sales, Michael, just like you tell yourself you own a motorcycle and are good at riding it.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
I heard that too. But it's wrong, and you should be smart enough to know that. Having sold somewhere on the order of 50-100 vehicles (cars, motorcycles, trucks, boats, airplanes...) in my life, I'll reckon I've got more selling experience than you, and more success at it. I've had people who bought cars from me ask me months/years later if I had anything for sale because they were so happy with what they bought. So apparently I'm not too bad at this.

Customer: "I want to pay $1 for that car"

Customer is not going to get that, unless it's at Steingar Motors where the customer is always right. Hence why Steingar hasn't made a bunch of money selling... anything.

Reality: The customer has rights, but is not always right. Markets work to determine pricing effectively. A good buyer knows a good deal and a good seller knows how to not be taken advantage of. Maybe that's why The Ted has had good success selling things for a profit (or at least break even) and is in a financially decent position.

But keep telling yourself you know more about sales, Michael, just like you tell yourself you own a motorcycle and are good at riding it.
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To quote the movie Tommy Boy - "that's gonna leave a mark"
 
I don't know who penned the line "The customer is always right," but it is wrong. As an engineer and senior officer, I've had to prepare presentations and, I should say, arguments to convince people of what I have developed or discovered. I have always been taught these people are my customers...buying my knowledge and experience. My job is to convince them that what I'm "selling" is worth their while.

I treat all my property sales the same way. I have to convince the buyer that what I am selling is worth the asking. I can't accept "the customer is always right" when I know the customer is not fully informed.
 
cgrab said:
Sad day today. I did a bunch of TNG's at the airport, pushed her into the hangar and wiped it down. I wanted to get one last flight in before the annual on Saturday and turning the plane over to the new owners. I had to get it in before the rains come later today.
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Years ago, I sold a 1970 Mustang Mach 1 (Grabber Blue, shaker hood) because my then (now ex) girlfriend said it had to go or she would go. (I obviously chose poorly.) My last drive in that car was a sad one, and I got a speeding ticket as part of that last send-off. Maybe it was that car's way of saying, "You deserved that." I dunno... but it was indeed a sad day, and one that I'm guessing that you guys can tell that I remember well despite it being more than 36 years ago.

Good to get that last flight in and build those good, lasting memories!
 
Didn't get a chance to mention that I got a good chuckle out of "The Ted" exchange. In all sincerity, thanks for brightening my morning!
 
cgrab said:
I don't know who penned the line "The customer is always right," but it is wrong. As an engineer and senior officer, I've had to prepare presentations and, I should say, arguments to convince people of what I have developed or discovered. I have always been taught these people are my customers...buying my knowledge and experience. My job is to convince them that what I'm "selling" is worth their while.

I treat all my property sales the same way. I have to convince the buyer that what I am selling is worth the asking. I can't accept "the customer is always right" when I know the customer is not fully informed.
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The customer isn't always right, but the customer is always the customer.
 
“Selling is easy. Selling and making money is hard.” - Marketing Director at a company who’s wonderboy salesman had just sold a ton of systems to Compaq at a loss of roughly $2 per unit on a $50 unit.
 
Prebuy today...I'm taking a table and chair and lamp for the logbook inspection.. Flashlights, tools, a compressor and a cooler full of drinks and hand sanitizer and masks to make everyone feel comfortable and the Cardinal Flyers recommended inspection plan. I'll report back later.
 
jsstevens said:
“Selling is easy. Selling and making money is hard.” - Marketing Director at a company who’s wonderboy salesman had just sold a ton of systems to Compaq at a loss of roughly $2 per unit on a $50 unit.
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Well, you gotta up those numbers to make it up on the volume then.
 
Today I got a message from Barnstormer that my 30 day ad expired. Let's hope I don't need to renew.
 
rtk11 said:
Years ago, I sold a 1970 Mustang Mach 1 (Grabber Blue, shaker hood) because my then (now ex) girlfriend said it had to go or she would go. (I obviously chose poorly.) My last drive in that car was a sad one, and I got a speeding ticket as part of that last send-off. Maybe it was that car's way of saying, "You deserved that." I dunno... but it was indeed a sad day, and one that I'm guessing that you guys can tell that I remember well despite it being more than 36 years ago.

Good to get that last flight in and build those good, lasting memories!
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I had a friend who used to race cars. His girlfriend didn't like it and started to complain about it. He told her, "Baby, that race car was here when you got here, and it will be here after you've gone".
 
Good luck. Hope everything goes well with the sale.

My recent(a couple of years ago) plane sale story: hadn't sold an airplane in many years, other than to a close relative. A buyer, about 500 miles away, was "very interested" in my Grumman. We talked, emailed, a lot, I sent recent logbook pages documenting the past 10 years, including a major repair after damage which had happened prior to me owning the airplane. A $2k deposit was sent to me (on a $35k aircraft). The buyer kept saying he and his mechanic were coming to see the airplane and purchase it. This dragged on for 6 weeks or so, and I was getting other calls on the plane, but not many. He kept asking if I would consider bringing it to him, if he paid all my expenses including my airfare home, ... in a weak moment, I agreed.

I flew 500 miles to his home base. His mechanic went over the airplane and logbooks. I hung around and drank coffee, etc. 5 hours or so. He calls me over, and says, I will buy your airplane, ....but.... for $2K less than the agreed price. He handed me a cashier's check for the total we agreed on, less $2,000. His rationale was this: he found a damage incident in the logs, from 1992, where a car had contacted the left horizontal stabilizer. The damage was repaired, signed off, and never caused an issue. He said I had hidden this from him. But he had never asked for copies of every page of the logs (I would have provided them if asked). I offered the recent 10 years, because I wanted to be sure he was aware of the major repairs that were done. Anyway.... I told him that I had not hidden anything from him; I thought the price we agreed on was fair; I did not do business like this. I informed him that I would fly home and refund whatever portion of his $2000 deposit was left after expenses. He then proceeded to produce ANOTHER cashier's check, for the $2K that was missing. The whole plan was to get me 500 miles from home and then lowball me by a couple of grand, assuming I would just accept it because it was easier...

I won't make that mistake again.... :)
 
A long day has come to an end. The mechanic spent 5 hours with the logs and about an hour with the plane. While he was finishing, I took the two buyers out for a flight. The mech has a 177RG and I'm selling a 177 FG. He said the eddy current check of the spar was necessary for the sale but agreed it wasn't required by the FAA nor was there any indication the spar was in need of it. He mentioned a cost range that depended on how much work the owner did for the test. In the end, I knocked off $2k of the price because I didn't want to do all the work necessary to get it done.

So what's next...On Monday the buyers tell the bank to release the funds and I pick up the check on Tuesday. We will sign the bill of sale at that time and the buyer will pick up all the GSE in the hangar in his truck. I'll fly the plane to their place later that day or the next.

I'm tired.
 
edo2000 said:
I won't make that mistake again.... :)
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Last plane I sold (experimental) had a couple of interesting prospects. The first one told me, "I'll agree to your full asking price if you'll fly it to me" (he was in Canada). Nope! Then he wanted to come and get it and pay me with a note from a Canadian bank. Nope! He then suggested that it wouldn't make the trip but changed his mind after he seen on the net that I had flown it on a nice cross country to a well known fly-in event. I left that one alone.

A young lady called and said she wanted it and was on the other (left coast). I thought it was a long way to come but she said she had plenty of free time and sky miles so she showed up on a Saturday morning. It rained most all day while we took the plane apart and went over many details. Just before dark the rain quit so I asked if she'd like to take a ride. She jumped at the chance and soon we were at 1500' and I said, "your airplane." She didn't fly it long and we went back and landed with her promising to call me in the morning.

She did and suggested I was gonna be mad. I said, "no I'm not mad at you not wanting the airplane." She asked how I knew. I told her I knew when she was flying it that it wasn't for her. She then asked if I'd take a couple of days to teach her how to make take-offs and landings in it as she'd had only flown ultralights. I told her there was no way I was gonna try to teach her to fly a plane in a few days (I'm not a CFI) and then sell it to her so she could make a cross country trip from the east coast to the west coast including going over some pretty good mountain ranges. I didn't need to sell a plane that much and certainly wasn't going to put her in that kind of danger. It might have worked out well but I wasn't gonna find out.

The plane sold shortly after that to a man that flew it, loved it, and thanked me a number of times for selling him a good plane at a good price.
 
The sale is pending a missing 337. I had a PMA6000 put in last year and the A&PIA doing the prebuy said a guy down in Birmingham was ramp checked and dinged for not having a 337 for his. The prebuy mechanic wrote one out and all I have to do is take it by my mechanic and have him file it.

Who knew an audio panel needed a 337?
 
cgrab said:
The sale is pending a missing 337. I had a PMA6000 put in last year and the A&PIA doing the prebuy said a guy down in Birmingham was ramp checked and dinged for not having a 337 for his. The prebuy mechanic wrote one out and all I have to do is take it by my mechanic and have him file it.

Who knew an audio panel needed a 337?
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Sounds like a fish story to me. Even if an audio panel requires a 337, which I don't concede, one is not required to keep 337's in the aircraft so it is hard to imagine that someone got "dinged" for not having one. Now the AFM supplement for said audio panel is another matter. That does need to be in the plane.
 
cgrab said:
Who knew an audio panel needed a 337?
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FWIW: It's your nickel, but if I was your mechanic I would tell the pre-buy mechanic to sign it himself since he is willing to fill one out. But a ramp check for 337? Agree as above, the only 337 required to be carried on an aircraft is for extended range fuel tanks installed in the cabin or baggage compartment. He got you for $2000 on the non-mandatory spar check now he wants his 337. My opinion is this is all his opinion.;)
 
Got the 337 and faxed it to the prebuy mech and I got the check. The buyer is coming by tomorrow to pick up all the GSE- ladders, footlocker full of documents, and tools- and I'll fly it to it's new home when the weather clears. I still have insurance on it until mid-October.
 
cgrab said:
Got the 337 and faxed it to the prebuy mech and I got the check. The buyer is coming by tomorrow to pick up all the GSE- ladders, footlocker full of documents, and tools- and I'll fly it to it's new home when the weather clears. I still have insurance on it until mid-October.
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If you have sold the plane, i.e. signed the bill of sale and given it to them, you may very well not have insurance as your old policy likely lapsed at that point. Might want to check with your broker.
 
cgrab said:
Got the 337 and faxed it to the prebuy mech and I got the check. The buyer is coming by tomorrow to pick up all the GSE- ladders, footlocker full of documents, and tools- and I'll fly it to it's new home when the weather clears. I still have insurance on it until mid-October.
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If you don't legally own it, you don't want to be insuring it. The new owner should carry the loss and liability insurance from this point and you should be flying it on their insurance if you are delivering it. They should have you as a named pilot on the policy for the ferry trip.
 
GRG55 said:
If you don't legally own it, you don't want to be insuring it. The new owner should carry the loss and liability insurance from this point and you should be flying it on their insurance if you are delivering it. They should have you as a named pilot on the policy for the ferry trip.
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Actually, unless you carry your own "non-owner" policy, i.e. renter's insurance, you don't want to just be the named pilot, you want to an "additional insured". Named pilot only means that the insurance company will pay the owner for a loss when you are flying the plane. It does not protect the "named pilot" from either being sued by third parties or by the insurance company itself trying to have you pay for any accident, alleging that it was your fault.
 
Called my insurer and they said they would not cancel my policy until Thursday. They said I would be covered for my delivery flight tomorrow. I made it clear the plane was sold and I would be flying someone else's plane and they were OK with that.

Today the new owner picked up all the GSE for the plane and the hangar is empty except for the plane and my ladder,
 
cgrab said:
So what's next...On Monday the buyers tell the bank to release the funds and I pick up the check on Tuesday. We will sign the bill of sale at that time and the buyer will pick up all the GSE in the hangar in his truck. I'll fly the plane to their place later that day or the next.

I'm tired.
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Congratulations on the sale. I'm curious how you and the seller managed the deposit and the transfer of funds.
 
UngaWunga said:
Congratulations on the sale. I'm curious how you and the seller managed the deposit and the transfer of funds.
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Not sure how his went but the money was electronically wired to my account, and I was sent an email with a plane ticket from RDU back home.
 
I delivered the plane today and the buyer drove me home. As far as the money transfer. I talked to his banker and she arrange for me to pick up a cashiers check at a local branch. When I met the buyer to sign the bill of sale, I gave him the check and he gave it back to me. Then it went into my bank. I gave him the logbooks (I said it was half the value of the plane.) That was yesterday, to day he got the plane itself.
 
cgrab said:
I delivered the plane today and the buyer drove me home. As far as the money transfer. I talked to his banker and she arrange for me to pick up a cashiers check at a local branch. When I met the buyer to sign the bill of sale, I gave him the check and he gave it back to me. Then it went into my bank. I gave him the logbooks (I said it was half the value of the plane.) That was yesterday, to day he got the plane itself.
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So... now what? New plane, or?
 
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