ForeFlight version 8 has been released.

CodeMonkey said:
We put the new pricing plans together last year to do two things: *not* raise prices for customers that were fine with what they had, but also provide a way forward for new features that are built at an additional expense. Here's the current plan comparison:

https://www.foreflight.com/pricing

The new Basic Plus plan ($99.99) has a ton of features now, including the new maps and digital airport maps. It may be sufficient for many customers that don't want every bell and whistle.
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You have a "Build your own plan" section. Why not add these new maps as an addition for those that do not want Logbook?

Flav
 
You mean in track up everything is still upside down? I thought that was not going to be the case?? Ill stick with what I have for now..FF pro. I use track up and would like everything to not be upside down...oh well.
 
And while you do not get the official "geo-refrenced approaches and taxi" charts in basic, you do get a decent version of them when you zoom in close with the vector maps since the runways and taxiways pop up when you get tight.
 
Does anyone know how to get rid of the white city labels that are showing up in FF8 on top of the VFR sectionals?
 
Pilawt said:
Correct. Same with a "Basic Plus" subscription. Or you can combine raster and vector in the same display, as in the third example above, or like this with the IFR chart:

AeroIFR_zpsz8gp1ha6.jpg
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So how do I turn the vector crap off? I can't find a setting to revert to the old, straight raster presentation.

I have to say that this is update is a real turd. If you don't have a 'plus' subscription, be thankful.

It appears to be a bastardized combination of vector graphics on top of the original raster charts which is just a friggin' mess.
 
Fearless Tower said:
So how do I turn the vector crap off? I can't find a setting to revert to the old, straight raster presentation.

I have to say that this is update is a real turd. If you don't have a 'plus' subscription, be thankful.

It appears to be a bastardized combination of vector graphics on top of the original raster charts which is just a friggin' mess.
Click to expand...

My guess is you touch the Aeronautical word at the top of the drop down menu to remove them.

I am only a Pro Subscriber so don't hold me to it.

Flav
 
CodeMonkey said:
We put the new pricing plans together last year to do two things: *not* raise prices for customers that were fine with what they had, but also provide a way forward for new features that are built at an additional expense. Here's the current plan comparison:

https://www.foreflight.com/pricing

The new Basic Plus plan ($99.99) has a ton of features now, including the new maps and digital airport maps. It may be sufficient for many customers that don't want every bell and whistle.
Click to expand...
Of course you can charge whatever you wish for your product, but think of it from a subscriber's POV: We pay a subscription every year expecting you will have the wherewithal to develop new features. Sounds like you've gotten yourself into trouble with too much overhead and will have to keep raising prices.
 
Flavius Renatus said:
My guess is you touch the Aeronautical word at the top of the drop down menu to remove them.

I am only a Pro Subscriber so don't hold me to it.

Flav
Click to expand...
Ah, yes indeed. You are correct. That kills all the vector graphics except the city/state names that was asked about earlier.

So, it would appear that if you like you old FF you can keep your old FF.

Thanks!
 
In all, FF is still a screaming deal over my old paper charts... The only issue I have with current pricing is the stupid inclusion of the logbook at $50 more a year, really. Synthetic vision isn't interesting to me, hazard advisor handles that job just fine. Same terrain SA. And logbook is even less interesting.

I really do need to look at the competitors too, but not because of Foreflight. Because of Apple. The quality vs price on Apple products is failing under Cook, and it's likely I will end up with an iPad only for Foreflight within the next year. The phone will likely go Android. OSX is still good value, but iOS is dropping fast as a value for dollar spent, under Cook. Especially with all the bugs that aren't being squashed and the bloat that ruins the use of devices that aren't that old.
 
simtech said:
You mean in track up everything is still upside down? I thought that was not going to be the case?? Ill stick with what I have for now..FF pro. I use track up and would like everything to not be upside down...oh well.
Click to expand...
No ... go back and look at the screenshots in Post #36 above. You can select the simple vector chart ("Aeronautical") in which all text is right-side up, even if you're southbound in track-up mode. Or keep "Aeronautical" on and also select the VFR or IFR raster charts. The printing on the raster charts will always be aligned to north just as it is on a paper chart, but the vector labels will be the top layer and will always be right-side-up on your screen -- and if you zoom out the vector labels will re-scale so as to always be legible. Zoom in and more right-side-up text appears (e.g., VOR idents and freqs). It seems to work very well.
 
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Pilawt said:
No ... go back and look at the screenshots in Post #36 above. You can select the vector chart ("Aeronautical") in which all text is right-side up, even if you're southbound in track-up mode. Or keep "Aeronautical" on and also select the VFR or IFR raster charts. The printing on the raster charts will always be aligned to north just as it is on a paper chart, but the vector labels will be on top and will always be right-side-up on your screen -- and if you zoom out the vector labels will re-scale so as to always be legible. It seems to work very well.
Click to expand...

Ah I see..so there is no getting out of reading frequencies upside down on the chart.
 
simtech said:
Ah I see..so there is no getting out of reading frequencies upside down on the chart.
Click to expand...
I missed where someone said that. But I'm not feeling well today and the pain medication is making me drowsy.
 
So I have the basic plan and it looks like in order to get the VFR charts I'll now have to upgrade to basic plus... Not a big deal only a few extra bucks a year but a bit disconcerting. The new charts that are not the classic VFR charts are essentially useless for airspace planning purposes. A shame really that Foreflight is clearly getting money hungery. A lack of competition creates a situation where as companies can get away with this stuff!
 
JOhnH said:
Even when I went to the web site to look this up, it didn't jump out at me at first that plain-old "Pro" was not listed.

Does basic have geo-referenced taxi diagrams yet? That is the only reason I pay for Pro.
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No it does not

Reference this chart:

https://www.foreflight.com/pricing

I did just get an email from Foreflight saying they are giving me a prorated credit for upgrading to a plus plan. I guess that's a nice gesture on there part!
 
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Cogito said:
Of course you can charge whatever you wish for your product, but think of it from a subscriber's POV: We pay a subscription every year expecting you will have the wherewithal to develop new features. Sounds like you've gotten yourself into trouble with too much overhead and will have to keep raising prices.
Click to expand...
What you say is true, but even with a subscription, I expect to see the prices increase as features are added.

What ticks me off is that rather than raising the subscription rate for PRO, they are forcing me to upgrade to things I don't want or need.
 
Flavius Renatus said:
Ooohhhh I hate you guys.

I had to play with it so I upgraded........
Click to expand...
I'm upgrading tomorrow. But that is only because I paid $100 for the Canada subscription in July, and my only forecast trip to Canada has come an gone. My pro-rated rebate will pay for Pro Plus with about $6.00 left over.
 
simtech said:
Ah I see..so there is no getting out of reading frequencies upside down on the chart.
Click to expand...

It would be nice to see frequency labels in vector maps only. You can tap it for the info though. No morse code helper here however. Also, nice that you can tap on an airway for the MEA/MOCA, BUT if there are dual MEA/MOCAs i.e. for different directions of flight, it only shows the FIRST one (which could be either higher or lower). Little issues like this make the chart view still required and lessen the value of vector maps (as well as force the annoyance of upside down chart effect in track up). Hope they improve that stuff soon.

EDIT: Never mind, you DO get frequencies on the vector chart for VORs on the app... I'm comparing both the new web plan.foreflight.com updates and iPad updates, and incorrectly assumed they were the same. They are not.
 
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jspilot said:
So I have the basic plan and it looks like in order to get the VFR charts I'll now have to upgrade to basic plus... Not a big deal only a few extra bucks a year but a bit disconcerting. The new charts that are not the classic VFR charts are essentially useless for airspace planning purposes. A shame really that Foreflight is clearly getting money hungery. A lack of competition creates a situation where as companies can get away with this stuff!
Click to expand...

Um, I don't think vector graphical charts were ever intended in anyone's design ever to be a replacement for the real deal. You do realize you get both right?

All the new chart gets you is the ability to zoom and filter, and the ability to do track-up easier.

Those of us who've been north-up primarily "forever", kinda don't care...

Plus the button is there to flip orientations anytime one feels like it. It's not hard to do in flight. Literally two finger presses.

I want to see the new charts, but I doubt they really do anything I need. Mostly just eye candy.

Georeferencing and terrain avoidance are the two big deals in cockpit tools after digitizing the charts.

Warnings are nice but shouldn't be relied upon. But with taxi warnings having been in there for a long time and the new TFR warnings in there, I can't imagine they're far away from airspace warnings. One problem with those is altitude... GPS altitude isn't accurate enough for that.

Technically the terrain hazard advisor and synthetic vision are also relying on that data input, which could be way off, when not corrected for barometric pressure.

Whether it's accurate enough to stop an airspace bust from above or below, will be interesting. The TFR warnings also need to take altitude into account, so they'll have data on it... But pilots tend to fly further away from TFRs than say, underneath Bravo rings.
 
simtech said:
Ah I see..so there is no getting out of reading frequencies upside down on the chart.
Click to expand...
Zoom in on a VOR and you get the identifier and freq, right-side-up. Tap an airport and the info box comes up (improved from the old style where you'd have to tap the airport symbol, then a menu or two to get to the info box).
 
As a pro subscriber with SV add on I'm a little ticked with this update. I figured it would be a nice upgrade to keep Firelight out in front of the competition but now I don't have access to it unless I spend more money. I feel the same way about this as paying more for the log book and I'm not going to throw a bunch of eggs in one basket and then get ****ed because they have all my log data. Adding features, even if they are expensive to develop, is a way to keep your customers and beat the competition. Adding vector maps is just playing catch up with GP anyway. This is a silly move and will ultimately result in a loss of customers. Just wait. It will happen one by one.
 
It looks like there are now only two options for individuals:

Basic Plus $99.99 new charts, logbook
Pro Plus $199.99 adds geo-ref plates, and synthetic vision

I have Pro now for 149.99, which has geo-referenced plates, but no logbook. I pay for the Pro for the geo-referenced plates and taxi diagrams. I don't want logbook, and I don't want synthetic vision. I don't own a Stratus, and don't want one.

I just went through the upgrade process on the website to see what is available. I was surprised to see that they will let me keep my plan.

So, here are my options:

1. I can keep paying $149.99, but I won't get the new charts.
2. I can downgrade to Basic Plus and get new charts (might be nice) and logbook (which I don't want) but will give up my geo-ref plates.
3. I can UPGRADE to Pro Plus and get the new charts (nice), and logbook and syn vision (neither of which I want).

So, for me, it's 50 more bucks a year to get the vector-based charts.

I'm probably going to let it run out in December, and try to use FltplanGo. It is free - including the geo-referenced plates. It's way more cumbersome, but maybe I'll get used to it. They also actively support the Stratux project. I'll probably be back with FF eventually.

We'll see....
 
denverpilot said:
Um, I don't think vector graphical charts were ever intended in anyone's design ever to be a replacement for the real deal. You do realize you get both right?

All the new chart gets you is the ability to zoom and filter, and the ability to do track-up easier.

Those of us who've been north-up primarily "forever", kinda don't care...

Plus the button is there to flip orientations anytime one feels like it. It's not hard to do in flight. Literally two finger presses.

I want to see the new charts, but I doubt they really do anything I need. Mostly just eye candy.

Georeferencing and terrain avoidance are the two big deals in cockpit tools after digitizing the charts.

Warnings are nice but shouldn't be relied upon. But with taxi warnings having been in there for a long time and the new TFR warnings in there, I can't imagine they're far away from airspace warnings. One problem with those is altitude... GPS altitude isn't accurate enough for that.

Technically the terrain hazard advisor and synthetic vision are also relying on that data input, which could be way off, when not corrected for barometric pressure.

Whether it's accurate enough to stop an airspace bust from above or below, will be interesting. The TFR warnings also need to take altitude into account, so they'll have data on it... But pilots tend to fly further away from TFRs than say, underneath Bravo rings.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was coming on here to update my post. I just updated my Foreflight and, with the basic plan( not basic plus) I still have everything I need! The basic VFR charts and IFR charts are exactly the same as before and look exactly like the paper versions! I'm thrilled! I'm not upgrading to the plus version. The Aeronautical stuff seems just like a nice add on but really not particularly a selling point for me!
 
DesertNomad said:
So where doe "Pro" fall on that? I have Pro but it only lists Basic Plus and Pro Plus.
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They appear to have discontinued Pro. But "If you like your pro, you can keep your pro". Until you can't.
 
DesertNomad said:
So where doe "Pro" fall on that? I have Pro but it only lists Basic Plus and Pro Plus.
Click to expand...

Right I have the same thing becaus I just have basic not basic plus. It looks like we may have been grandfathered in here and we won't need to upgrade unless we want the new bells and whistles. I got one, don't so I'm not upgrading to the plus.
 
It doesn't look like I can add synthetic vision anymore without going to Pro Plus. I use Pilot Pro so I don't need the logbook.
 
If you like your current pricing plan, you can keep your current plan.......sounds familiar


Maybe it's just me, I don't see the fuss about vector charts. I use it for the sectional and en route charts mostly.
 
DesertNomad said:
It doesn't look like I can add synthetic vision anymore without going to Pro Plus. I use Pilot Pro so I don't need the logbook.
Click to expand...

JOhnH said:
They appear to have discontinued Pro. But "If you like your pro, you can keep your pro". Until you can't.
Click to expand...


Go to build your own plan and you can purchase Pro for $149.99 then you can add logbook for $50 and you can add SV for $25.
 
pburger said:
It looks like there are now only two options for individuals:

Basic Plus $99.99 new charts, logbook
Pro Plus $199.99 adds geo-ref plates, and synthetic vision

I have Pro now for 149.99, which has geo-referenced plates, but no logbook. I pay for the Pro for the geo-referenced plates and taxi diagrams. I don't want logbook, and I don't want synthetic vision. I don't own a Stratus, and don't want one.

I just went through the upgrade process on the website to see what is available. I was surprised to see that they will let me keep my plan.

So, here are my options:

1. I can keep paying $149.99, but I won't get the new charts.
2. I can downgrade to Basic Plus and get new charts (might be nice) and logbook (which I don't want) but will give up my geo-ref plates.
3. I can UPGRADE to Pro Plus and get the new charts (nice), and logbook and syn vision (neither of which I want).

So, for me, it's 50 more bucks a year to get the vector-based charts.

I'm probably going to let it run out in December, and try to use FltplanGo. It is free - including the geo-referenced plates. It's way more cumbersome, but maybe I'll get used to it. They also actively support the Stratux project. I'll probably be back with FF eventually.

We'll see....
Click to expand...

FWIW, I don't think it is worth paying more right now to get the new vector charts. What FF has done is essentially overlay vector graphics on top of the standard raster charts. So you have vector symbology of airports on top of the sectional images. Just clutter that looks like crap.

I suspect that in future versions, it might be a better presentation, but right now, it looks like crap.
 
No, don't overlay it. It looks way better on its own. It's just one more option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
And eventually the old hand laid out raster/scanned charts will be discontinued by the govt, it's all just data...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
gsengle said:
No, don't overlay it. It looks way better on its own. It's just one more option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Ok, I see what you are saying.....but that just gives me a presentation that is no better than a Garmin GPS while losing a lot of the details available on the sectional.

I can see how this new format is a cheaper alternative to a portable Garmin GPS, but a deficient replacement for charts.
 
So use the old sectionals. You've lost nothing. I actually think the digital layer is a great start especially airways depiction. And you can tap anything for more detail...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Agreed..

The first time I have felt let down by foreflight.. Have paid for the pro subscription for years. Now either a basic plus ( $99) has more and newer features than me or I pay an extra $75 for just geo ref plates and sv ( $174 )



Flavius Renatus said:
I am just a tad ****ed at Foreflight.

I did not see where they said that you have to be a Basic or ProPlus subscriber to get the new maps....I was really looking forward to seeing what they had been working on, since I watched the videos the release at Oshkosh.

I download the update and find out that I have to be a ProPlus subscriber to get the new maps. I have had a Pro Subscription for years, now they come out with this Pro Plus bullSH*T and I now have to upgrade and be forced to get LOG BOOK which I neither need nor want, just so I can see what the new map feature looks like.

I think I am going to go cool down, right now I am of a mind to just go get Garmin Pilot
Click to expand...
 
In the new mapping system, how can you see the floors and tops of controlled airspace? For example - the floor and top of a class bravo shelf? This is especially important for those of us in complicated airspaces like the LA area.
 
Just tap on what you want to see, although I think those altitudes should be default rendered...


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gsengle said:
So use the old sectionals. You've lost nothing. I actually think the digital layer is a great start especially airways depiction. And you can tap anything for more detail...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Correct, but for those who are feeling like they are left out having to pay FF more for the new chart format....I'm just saying they are better off keeping their money and waiting to see where this goes. I really don't think it's worth the extra money right now.
 
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