Foreflight + Stratus (ADS-B WX)
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Electronic Flight Bag (EFB) App Compatability: WingX Pro7 l PC Avionics - Mountain Scope l i1000 Flight System l Global Nav Source - iPad EFB l SkyVision Extreme - Xtreme Vision 3D read more about compatibility
flyingcheesehead
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Grant,
It doesn't have anything to do with liability. It has everything to do with safety... Well, and user experience too!
I've explained the safety issue already. That will lead to these portable ADS-B devices seeming like they're not working. You go and spend $800 on a device promising traffic, and it only shows one of every twenty traffic calls you get from ATC, you'd be pretty unhappy with it!
Really, the ONLY safe way to use one of these devices as a traffic alerter is if you've got ADS-B Out - In which case, you probably have ADS-B In and are getting traffic on something in your panel anyway.
The problem with your idea of reading and agreeing to something to enable traffic is that nobody reads those things. Again, this is about safety, not liability. I'm glad that ForeFlight is choosing not to fill the skies with pilots flying along fat, dumb and happy with a false sense of security and not looking out the window.
I'm sure that by 2020, they'll have traffic - At that point, most aircraft will have ADS-B Out and thus the traffic picture will be fairly complete. Until a "critical mass" of aircraft owners spend the money for ADS-B, however, showing traffic on portable ADS-B devices is foolish and irresponsible.
I've been using FF on the ground while commuting from COS to FTG. Summer in Colorado means horrendous TStorms as well as far too many accidents on the highways. Pull up FF with live weather & track lines, and head for the Plan B route home!
Clark1961
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There's a tower active near COS. I pick it up north of Denver when I'm traveling to/from WWW. It'll be nice when they add it to the WAM sites.
gprellwitz
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Grant Prellwitz
Actually, Kent, your argument is a good one for equipping with the mandated ADS-B OUT and using a much less expensive portable solution for ADS-B IN traffic. The ADS-B OUT can be done as a replacement unit for the transponder, not requiring any sort of an MFD.
I think that this is one of those instances where we'll just need to agree to disagree. I think I understand your points, but weight the alternatives differently, arriving at a different conclusion.
wsuffa
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I'm with Grant. I'd only add that with the cost of installed avionics (see: Garmin's repair policy thread) & their being made obsolete in the future, there is a much stronger case for use of portable units. It may be that future ADSB-out installations will come with ADSB-IN, but they may not. It makes it much harder for the renter where the owner may not want to install ADSB-IN (or the required display).
So, I'll also have to disagree with you. Either we're pilots who have the ability to understand, process, and make decisions, or we're not (and someone else will make the decision for us).
One could make the same argument you've made with respect to weather services, too. It could be a safety matter if the WX service is provided.
I suppose, in the end, that the market will decide as I expect one of FF's competitors will incorporate the feature.
(note that I have and use TIS via Mode-S, which also has limitations).
gprellwitz
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Grant Prellwitz
Actually, some of FFs competitors have already incorporated the feature. Including, IIRC, Garmin!
flyingcheesehead
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Well I disagree with agreeing to disagree.
And that's because I agree with what you've said above - I think it'd be useful to have a portable solution for ADS-B Out equipped airplanes that will display traffic, and I think when having ADS-B Out isn't so rare, that ForeFlight will probably begin supporting traffic through Stratus. I just don't think we're there yet... And there'll need to be a way for it to tell whether you're equipped. I still wouldn't be very comfortable having people without ADS-B Out relying on it for traffic because it gives a VERY incomplete and misleading picture.
wsuffa
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Maybe it's just me, but I don't "rely" on any of these informational devices (weather/nexrad, TIS, ADSB, stormscope, etc) because pretty much none of them give a totally complete picture. They are a tool, when properly applied, that can aid in risk mitigation. TIS misses some stuff (particularly aircraft that are not operating transponders or areas beyond the service area), Nexrad can be 10-20 minutes late & won't detect fast moving/fast growing storms. Stormscope won't show dangerous cells that have no lightning (and are prone to false positives). Etc. Etc.
Doesn't mean I don't want them as a tool, just that I have to exercise appropriate pilot judgement in the use of the tool. I'd rather make the judgement for myself rather than having someone else do it for me.
As I said, maybe it's just me...
gprellwitz
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Grant Prellwitz
Nope, not just you!
flyingcheesehead
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Agreed. However, there are many pilots who rely solely on whatever the gadget du jour is for whatever thing and expect a complete, accurate, up-to-date picture. Only the good pilots, such as yourself, will take the time to understand the limitations of the system and work with them.
Also, in this case, it's not like TIS where you'll get most of the traffic and simply miss non-transponder traffic, below-radar traffic, etc... This will give you, at this point in time, literally next to nothing. I'd be very surprised if you ended up getting one out of every 20 possibly-conflicting planes. Portable ADS-B traffic at this point in time is worse than worthless. As I've said several times already, at some point in time ADS-B Out equipage will hit a critical mass, at which point I will agree with you. It's not even close to there yet.
When the system is so bad as it is right now, I'm glad that someone is willing to be the guy who stands up and says, "You know what, this just isn't going to work well enough" rather than adding a worthless feature to check a box. For every Bill Suffa or Grant Prellwitz in the world, there's twenty chuckleheads who will be head-down looking at their iPad for traffic and expecting that it'll keep them safe, and we're nowhere close yet. For that reason, I am willing to live without the traffic display myself for now, despite being one of the people who understands the limitations fully, simply to make sure that those twenty chuckleheads have their eyes outside and will have a better chance of seeing me if I miss them.
In addition, imagine yourself in customer service after someone has a close call that wasn't reported by your fancy new $800 gadget, and think about the repercussions of putting out a product that rarely works in today's internet-enabled (think "customer product reviews") world. This is the sort of thing that works so poorly right now that it'll incite plenty of negative comments from those who don't understand the limitations of the system.
wsuffa
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If we were in Spin Zone, that would be called "Nanny State".
It's not their job to protect folks from themselves. (Just wondering: given the issues with Nexrad, why do they support Nexrad when even the NTSB has issued a warning? Don't those same "chucklehead" pilots need to be protected from themselves? ) That said, it is ultimately the decision of the company as to whether they include it or not (except in the case of certified avionics, which this is not). Doesn't stop customers like us from either 1) requesting it, or 2) buying a product that supports it. I'd probably buy a Stratus and give WxWorx the heave-ho if traffic were supported. But it's not, so I'll stay with XM for now.
If we were in Spin Zone, that would be called "Nanny State".
That said, it is ultimately the decision of the company as to whether they include it or not (except in the case of certified avionics, which this is not). Doesn't stop customers like us from either 1) requesting it, or 2) buying a product that supports it. I'd probably buy a Stratus and give WxWorx the heave-ho if traffic were supported. But it's not, so I'll stay with XM for now.
From what I recall, ForeFlight never claimed that safety was the reason that they didn't include traffic--they basically said that traffic display wasn't reliable unless your aircraft was transmitting ADS-B Out. ForeFlight seems to be fairly conservative and methodical when it comes to implementing features in ForeFlight, perhaps too much so. But when they do implement them, they seem to do it very well.
On the other hand, for me, ForeFlight just hasn't been able to shake the "ground bound" feel of a flight planner. WingX isn't nearly as nice overall, but it's nicer to use in flight, with easier access to useful information and better navigation utility. However, it's missing the strengths of ForeFlight for planning (no Internet weather overlay, and no plans for it) and IFR operation (no SIDs, STARs, etc.)
Just about every time I write to ForeFlight, I get a nice reply thanking me for my suggestion and telling me that they'll put it on the list for future consideration. The problem is that sometimes I'm reporting a BUG, and not a feature request, and sometimes I'm reporting the same feature request that I've reported multiple times in the past. That gives me the feeling that they have canned answers, don't give two hoots about the feature requests, and basically do what they want. I'm sure they're listening to somebody, but it seems more likely that they're listening to the large corporate and educational buyers that they seem to be courting.
I think that ForeFlight wants to get bought (eventually). I think that Hilton just wants to make a living or nice supplement with WingX (nothing wrong with that). And I think that Garmin just wants to hedge their bets in case the tablet thing gets really big and ends up killing the dedicated portable market.
JKG
Challenged
Pattern Altitude
Not the muddy the waters, but Zaon indicates that they are coming out with a couple of ADS-B products this fall as well, the more the merrier I say.
http://www.zaon.aero/component/option,com_fireboard/func,view/id,881/catid,23/#884
http://www.zaon.aero/component/option,com_fireboard/func,view/id,881/catid,23/#884
flyingcheesehead
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(Just wondering: given the issues with Nexrad, why do they support Nexrad when even the NTSB has issued a warning? Don't those same "chucklehead" pilots need to be protected from themselves?
Nexrad is still pretty close, though - ADS-B traffic, however, is a 5% solution at best.
Whoa... You'd spend that kind of money solely for a feature that would hardly ever actually work?
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Here's their full explanation:
http://blog.foreflight.com/2012/04/01/pings-pucks-and-why-no-traffic-on-stratus/
And that is why it's such a good product. "Brochure box-checking" is practiced all too frequently these days in many industries, and it results in some pretty mediocre products. So, I tend to rabidly support those products where things are done right.
Wait, what? I thought WingX had weather overlays?
They do care about the feature requests - And usually whatever people are asking about most at Oshkosh (or Sun'n'Fun, or xxx) this year, will be out by whatever fly-in next year. Most importantly, it'll be done right (see above).
I wouldn't be so sure. I've never gotten that vibe when talking to Tyson or Jason. They care a lot about their product and they're passionate about making it better. If all they wanted was to get bought out, they'd be brochure-box-checking like mad.
wsuffa
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Nexrad is still pretty close, though - ADS-B traffic, however, is a 5% solution at best.
Whoa... You'd spend that kind of money solely for a feature that would hardly ever actually work?
Not "solely for" but that feature is the one that would make the tradeoff from "XM works everywhere, ground and air, even where ADS-B isn't" to "ADS-B has a feature that XM doesn't and never will, and I'm willing to accept that it won't work in some places" worthwhile to me. I've been living with the limitations of TIS for quite a while. It's nowhere close to a 100% solution, and shrinking as TRACON radars are changed.
It's a cost-benefit equation. I've paid the money for XM, and pay it every month, for near universal weather coverage in the US (we'll not include Alaska or Hawaii as the likelihood of my flying there is slim on a regular basis).
If I had the additional feature, I'd be willing to spend the money for the receiver and eliminate XM, taking that feature against the loss of universality in weather. I might even consider springing for an -ES transponder or ADSB-OUT (without spending the additional cash to get ADSB-IN and tie it into the Garmin 430 unit).
You're willing to accept the limitations & the developer's decision on what you get or don't get. That's the way Apple operates ("we know best..."). 'sok, no issue.
I'm willing to accept the risks associated with the system limitations (as opposed to an artificial developer limitation to "protect me"). While I have an iPad, I grouse pretty much every day because of the developer limitations that don't allow me to do certain things on the photography side that would simplify my life and keep me from having to carry 2 devices where one will do. Apple put the port limitations in to "protect me" from running the battery down - I'd be willing to make the battery trade if I could read/write photos to a memory card (instead of having to carry a netbook to do the task or having to carry a wifi-connected external drive). No, doing it across the internet doesn't work from, say, China or Turkey.
Difference in philosophy. For you, what FF/Apple does is a good fit. For me, the shortcomings get in my way. Shouldn't stop me from wanting the feature.
Piloto
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Piloto
The problem with ADS-B is that the overwhelming majority is not equipped with ADS-B out but with the old mode C transponder. So it is natural that these new ADS-B devices will not see the traffic. Even by 2020 there would be a large percentage that would not equip with ADS-B out because they do not fly into Class B or Class C airspace like myself. After all fuel is more expensive at B & C.
While refueling at KPHK I met C172 owner that just got the Garmin GDL 39 and he was thinking that the traffic in the pattern has no transponder because the GDL 39 never showed. I turned on my Monroy Traffic Watch and right away it pointed to the traffic at 400ft on final. After the traffic landed (an old V35) and lined up for fuel we ask what transponder he has. He was equip with an old Narco T-50 (definitely no ADSB-out) and not even a panel mounted GPS. The V-35 owner said he is not planning to upgrade to ADS-B out because he never flies to B or C airports.
The reality is that if you do not fly to B or C or above 10Kft there is no need to equip with ADS-B out. But even if you equip, your ADS-B in may not see the old Mode C traffic. To actually detect all traffic you need to have Mode C (air to air) capability also.
José
While refueling at KPHK I met C172 owner that just got the Garmin GDL 39 and he was thinking that the traffic in the pattern has no transponder because the GDL 39 never showed. I turned on my Monroy Traffic Watch and right away it pointed to the traffic at 400ft on final. After the traffic landed (an old V35) and lined up for fuel we ask what transponder he has. He was equip with an old Narco T-50 (definitely no ADSB-out) and not even a panel mounted GPS. The V-35 owner said he is not planning to upgrade to ADS-B out because he never flies to B or C airports.
The reality is that if you do not fly to B or C or above 10Kft there is no need to equip with ADS-B out. But even if you equip, your ADS-B in may not see the old Mode C traffic. To actually detect all traffic you need to have Mode C (air to air) capability also.
José
denverpilot
Tied Down
Normal for a company their size now. They outgrew personal responses to individual customers at least a year ago.
There's also likely a very engineering-based culture that "fixed" the customer service desk explosion of customer contacts with a ticketing and knowledgebase system.
I've been on the other side of that fence. The CS reps on the front lines are turned into ticket takers and reviewers and only authorized to send out canned responses pre-programmed into the ticket system. They lose all authority to "push" for things. Their bosses can summarize big problems that are crushing his front line staff, once a week in an engineering priorities meeting.
To get advanced support with a human who knows where your specific feature request sits in the engineering priority queue requires a large purchase and a big annual service contract. You get your own phone number to call.
Never seen a knowledgebase project ever truly work long-term. Main reason is that there was never anyone truly in charge of what went in, and what needed to be cleaned out over time. They get crufty and the techs build their own individual knowledge bases on their PCs with bookmarks, wikis on machines stashed under desks, etc. Even in places where money was associated with knowledge bank entries. Front line techs move up by becoming experts. Writing down everything they know for their lazier co-workers is rarely a high-priority. Sad, but true. There isn't enough cash in the world to pay someone to topple their dream of going to "Tier II". If you tie knowldegbase entries to promotions, they're just going to document every little minutae that no one needs to regularly know.
The benefit to the company of canned amswers is a unified answer system and style. And the ability to hire much less clueful staff that are cheaper to handle the flood of frequently asked questions and act as a filter for the higher tiered support staff. The downside is pushing customers who'd prefer a more human approach, away.
I've been everything from the "Tier 1 Appeasement Engineer" to the "Tier 4 Product Support Specialist" with direct access to the coders and also been the manager of those customer service setups.
What I see out of Foreflight screams "Engineering Culture" which in tech, is typically a decent way to go, but it does alienate the customer base a bit.
One way to fix that is to put major feature requests out in public and allow customers to vote on them, even if the vote isn't the heaviest weighting internally. It keeps you honest. And makes the customer both see your higher priority items and think about them, and also feel like they're involved in the process.
One place I worked at was a Sales Culture. The Engineering staff conveniently left the ticket system on the external side of the Corporate firewall and showed customers privately how to snealily poke around on it to see where their bug and feature requests fell in the a engineering queue, mostly set by Sales.
Customers were coached that they couldn't directly say they'd seen their feature was "de-scoped", but that they could simply call up their Sales Representaive and scream bloody murder for things they truly needed when they fell off the turnip truck. It was an interesting way to close that loop.
The very best Sales guys and gals knew it was going on. Most were clueless. It paid to pay attention. Sales never wants to tell a customer that their oh-my-god-we-need-it-now feature is stacked up behind a new product turn up, ten other features, and some really dumb ones for a larger customer. Customers say they want that level of transparency, but sometimes lose their minds when they get it.
As a high "tier" guy, my job was often to talk them down off the ledge. Heh. And sometimes I knew they were right and went to bat for them at risk of being labeled "troublemaker" by our Engineering management. Always good to have your customers lined up and ready to squawk if you're going to play that game. More than one, even if they don't know it. "Hey, remember that feature you wanted last quarter? Now would be a good time to call the Engineering head guy or pick on him at the conference. Yeah, you didn't hear that from me. He might be more open to it. Yeah, half the support staff jumped him in the hallway a couple of days ago. Okay man, glad we got your other issue fixed and hope you have a nice afternoon. Tell your kid to win in soccer tonight!"
Wait, what? I thought WingX had weather overlays?
WingX has overlay for ADS-B weather, but not for Internet weather, I suspect because they do not have a source for the data. ForeFlight has contracted with a private party for their Internet weather data.
I don't have an issue with selective feature implementation, except that it seems to take them a LONG time to implement even small features. They are rapidly being left in the dust by the competition, and I think that once the feature delta grows too large, the better implementation isn't worth the price of lost functionality.
There are at least a few user interface elements that suck for in flight use, including the airport pop-up window on the map page (which often chooses to pop up crammed into one tiny corner of the screen, when the rest of the screen is freely available), and the fact that the nav log and "HUD" are on opposite ends of the screen. If you pull up the wrong approach plate, you have to start all over again to get back to the plates from the map page, or MANUALY search for the airport on the airport page, or MANUALLY set up a plates binder beforehand. I can't figure out how to create a user waypoint fom my present GPS position. I'm still trying to figure out why their density altitude calculations are 200-300 feet off from the local AWOS stations. And if you create a flight plan with an altitude in the route box, the altitude will transfer into the Altitude Advisor box (and oddly does not disappear from the route box), but it won't use winds aloft calculations in your route plan until you reconfirm the altitude in the Altitude Advisor (this is a known bug which they initially blew off until I pressed them to acknowledge it.). So even some of what they do implement isn't as clean as it could be.
Well, I'm not SURE of course, but I'm basing that assessment on the historical backgrounds of the founders and what I've observed of their business model. "Brochure box-checking," by which I assume you mean feature competition, is for amateurs. Smart companies who want to be acquired build valuation, often by securing market share along with a nice stream of recurring revenue, which appears to be what they're doing. Their intentions in this regard really don't matter, but it may help to explain decisions regarding product direction.
JKG
Na, they're still a tiny company from what I can tell. And you can still get personal answers and acknowledgement, even from the co-founders, but you have to push. At this point, a database of feature requests and known bugs would probably help the front line respond more appropriately to suggestions and bug reports, because unless you get to Jason Miller or one or two others, the rest of the support staff seems to fumble around as though they're not sure. So they smile and thank you for the suggestion and are off to the next email.
I do like the email support model. I'm not sure if ForeFlight has a phone number, but I've never needed to look for it. Hilton Software, on the other hand, seems to prefer phone support over email. I've sent perhaps several emails to WingX support over the past month and haven't received a response to a single one of them, but all of my calls have been returned. Not quite as convenient as email for me.
JKG
denverpilot
Tied Down
Thoughts...
Airport pop up never bothered me. It's near as it can be to where you tapped. Want it in the center, scroll the map do the airport is in the center.
Not understanding why the NavLog at the top and HUD at the bottom is a problem.
Get in the habit of going to the Plate screen first. Type airport ID, now if you go into a plate you can back up to the page with all plates at that airport. That fixes that problem. Other routes to the Plates page act a little weird.
Pinch zoom and tap right on top of the aircraft symbol. Helps if you're in "track aircraft" mode with the Aircraft centered.
AWOS tracks decimal degrees of temperature but doesn't announce them, I believe. Would have to go look at the specs or the gathered graphical data on the NOAA website.
The altitude advisor box has some other bugs I've reported. It's brand new as of only what, a month ago. They appear to still be working out a couple of bugs with it.
Just thoughts. Replace tap with tap-hold if you've messed with changing that setting. (Or perhaps I have. It's been back and forth a couple times. Haven't decided what I like, but probably tap-hold in turbulence.)
Airport pop up never bothered me. It's near as it can be to where you tapped. Want it in the center, scroll the map do the airport is in the center.
Not understanding why the NavLog at the top and HUD at the bottom is a problem.
Get in the habit of going to the Plate screen first. Type airport ID, now if you go into a plate you can back up to the page with all plates at that airport. That fixes that problem. Other routes to the Plates page act a little weird.
Pinch zoom and tap right on top of the aircraft symbol. Helps if you're in "track aircraft" mode with the Aircraft centered.
AWOS tracks decimal degrees of temperature but doesn't announce them, I believe. Would have to go look at the specs or the gathered graphical data on the NOAA website.
The altitude advisor box has some other bugs I've reported. It's brand new as of only what, a month ago. They appear to still be working out a couple of bugs with it.
Just thoughts. Replace tap with tap-hold if you've messed with changing that setting. (Or perhaps I have. It's been back and forth a couple times. Haven't decided what I like, but probably tap-hold in turbulence.)
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Weird... Seems like such a core feature that I just automatically thought they'd have it. To me, that's way more important than a lot of other things that WingX does have.
I'm trying to figure out why having them together would be desirable.
I think that having them right together would clutter things up numbers-wise and make it slightly harder to see what you're looking for at a quick glance. But I'm curious to hear your thoughts.Go to the plates binder, tap add plate - I think that's maybe the easiest way to get right to the airport in question, assuming it's part of your active route. I do kinda wish the plates could be a separate tab on the airports popup, I don't like scrolling all the way down on the "info" page.
Tap and hold on the airplane, then tap the "+" button to the right of "add this coordinate to route".
Nobody's perfect...
Well, ForeFlight happened to be first to market. They were also regularly featured in the "most expensive apps ever" kinds of lists before in-app purchase allowed for subscriptions. Back then, there wasn't any mechanism for recurring revenue and people didn't want to buy a $75 app and then decide they didn't like it. I think that limited sales greatly. So, now they're on a subscription model which allows for a try-before-you-buy experience, and I'd be willing to bet that downloads greatly increased at that point. So, I don't think they've gone into this with the idea that their goal is to sell it off.
CodeMonkey
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CodeMonkey
JKG,
Happy to speak with you on the phone anytime. We've obviously done (or not done) something to drive the assumptions and conclusions you've made about us.
My email is tyson@foreflight.com. Send me your phone number and happy to ring you up. We could go round and round debating things on the forum, but phone is probably more efficient, more personal and more interactive.
All of us here put in long hours, most weekends, and sacrifice a lot personally working to make great software for pilots to use and working to build a company people have affection for.
-tyson
Co-founder / CEO
Well, it is important from the pre-flight perspective. It's not so important from the inflight perspective. But it's frustrating that there's no way to marry the two, by having pre-flight Internet weather available on the ground, with a transition to inflight weather, as can be done on ForeFlight with XM or Stratus (WingX also does not presently support XM).
Using the plates binder has two problems: Many extra button presses, and it completely removes you from the map screen. Neither one of them a good situation in flight, especially single pilot.
This doesn't appear to use current GPS position, it uses the position on which you tapped, which may not be the exact GPS position. In fact, the tapped position is displayed in the box that pops up relative to current GPS position, but there doesn't appear to be an option to actually use the current GPS position for the waypoint. Even cheap auto GPSes have this functionality.
And, yes, if I make multiple attempts at tapping, I can get reasonably close to the current GPS position, but how likely is that when I'm bouncing around in an airplane? Even on the ground it takes me zoomed in and several taps to get better than a half mile off. Maybe I have big fingers, but there should still be a "Use GPS Position" option, even if it's only available in the User Waypoints section of settings. I'd also like to see the ability to define user waypoints based on radial and distance, as you can with Garmin Pilot.
If I started a company, I'd likely always be willing to sell it off for the right price, but that wouldn't define my business model. I don't think it defines theirs, but I do think that some of what they are doing positions the business for such an eventuality. It all comes down to intentions, which are unknown to everyone except the owners at this point. Who wouldn't want to be acquired for a nice sum by a bigger fish, as ultimate validation of and compensation for their work? I'm not saying that there's a thing wrong with that, by the way.
JKG
Tyson,
I'd be happy to talk with you, but really, no need as I mentioned above. ForeFlight's support is very responsive and I've repeatedly mentioned that in other threads. What I've noticed lately is that when faced with perhaps some very detailed technical questions, I sometimes don't receive very good answers in return. Sometimes, a certain behavior that I'm questioning (which could be a bug) is brushed off without a clear acknowledgement or response. If I push for a clear answer, it often ends up on Jason's desk, and I get one. I hate to push things to Jason's desk, as I'm sure he's incredibly busy. Hopefully, the support questions and answers are being logged to help the rest of the support staff should they receive similar questions in the future.
I tend to be a very detail-oriented person and want to ensure that I understand exactly how certain functionality works. I'm also a huge fan of a simple, intuitive user interface, and when something seems to be off the mark, I question it.
I would like to see ForeFlight provide more "in flight" usability to complement the excellent pre-flight capabilities and weather products. Right now, it seems that competing products are good at one or the other, with Garmin coming to the table as a mediocre attempt to compromise at both. You guys could knock it out of the park by focusing on some of the small details, and with the addition of some core navigation features (airspace overlays, track up, terrain/obstacles with warnings!, reorganization of the nav data fields, etc.) Those things probably aren't important to your corporate customers, but they are important to many in the remainder of the GA community, and would help to make ForeFlight a more comprehensive solution.
ForeFlight is already a great solution which I've repeatedly advocated and defended in this and other forums. Any comments are intended to be constructive and not derogatory in any way. You've set the bar high, and hopefully it will stay that way!
JKG
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flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Well, I finally got my Stratus Monday. Pirep time!
The box notes "designed and built in the USA." Bonus points for that. It seems like very few electronics are actually built here any more. Speaking of the box, it includes the Stratus, a 120VAC to USB power adapter, and a USB cable. It didn't look like a standard Mini-USB or Micro-USB connector on the device end to me, though. There was also a user manual that was pretty straightforward, but there have already been features added that weren't in the manual, so a couple of settings were unclear.
The device itself is pretty simple: USB and (optional) antenna ports, power button, and three indicator lights which can turn quite a few different colors. The only thing I didn't like about it physically is that the power button is somewhat difficult to push in all the way. On the other hand, that makes it pretty tough to inadvertently power the unit down, so I suppose it's OK!
Signal was surprisingly good - Inside at the office it didn't receive (no surprise there), but I actually did get a weak signal on the ground at the airport even though I was still between the hangars, and by 100 AGL I had a solid, uninterrupted signal for the rest of the flight. I even got another radar update after landing, so maybe when I'm more out in the open instead of between the hangars, there's enough signal to be somewhat useful.
The picture isn't quite as pretty as the radar you get from the internet on the ground - It's a lot blockier. But, whadda ya expect for "free" from the government?
ForeFlight does a great job of labeling where things came from - It'll note "Stratus" next to the time of the radar updates on the map screen, next to the GPS accuracy, etc. and "ADS-B" next to the METAR's on the airport pages.
I guess my only suggestion so far is to save powering up the Stratus until right before takeoff if you have a 3G/4G enabled iPad - That way, you'll continue getting weather updates over the Internet while you're still on the ground. Flip it on right before takeoff and you'll be getting ADS-B weather almost as soon as you're airborne.
As usual, a job well done by ForeFlight and their partners!
The box notes "designed and built in the USA." Bonus points for that. It seems like very few electronics are actually built here any more. Speaking of the box, it includes the Stratus, a 120VAC to USB power adapter, and a USB cable. It didn't look like a standard Mini-USB or Micro-USB connector on the device end to me, though.
There was also a user manual that was pretty straightforward, but there have already been features added that weren't in the manual, so a couple of settings were unclear.The device itself is pretty simple: USB and (optional) antenna ports, power button, and three indicator lights which can turn quite a few different colors. The only thing I didn't like about it physically is that the power button is somewhat difficult to push in all the way. On the other hand, that makes it pretty tough to inadvertently power the unit down, so I suppose it's OK!
Signal was surprisingly good - Inside at the office it didn't receive (no surprise there), but I actually did get a weak signal on the ground at the airport even though I was still between the hangars, and by 100 AGL I had a solid, uninterrupted signal for the rest of the flight. I even got another radar update after landing, so maybe when I'm more out in the open instead of between the hangars, there's enough signal to be somewhat useful.
The picture isn't quite as pretty as the radar you get from the internet on the ground - It's a lot blockier. But, whadda ya expect for "free" from the government?
ForeFlight does a great job of labeling where things came from - It'll note "Stratus" next to the time of the radar updates on the map screen, next to the GPS accuracy, etc. and "ADS-B" next to the METAR's on the airport pages.
I guess my only suggestion so far is to save powering up the Stratus until right before takeoff if you have a 3G/4G enabled iPad - That way, you'll continue getting weather updates over the Internet while you're still on the ground. Flip it on right before takeoff and you'll be getting ADS-B weather almost as soon as you're airborne.
As usual, a job well done by ForeFlight and their partners!