Foreflight + Stratus (ADS-B WX)

Ted DuPuis said:
I have some clients who have this in their A36 Bonanza (it only stays in the one plane rather than moving). Most of their flying is in the Northeast, and they have been thrilled with the unit.

I didn't realize that the ADS-B coverage still had such large gaps. That makes sense, but until they get the rest of the country filled in, it be that useful for those of us who travel all over.
Click to expand...

Yes, kind of disappointing for us Midwest flyers. Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas, and Oklahoma are huge gaps in coverage. Of course, everyone knows we don't have adverse weather in those states :wink2: I am curious when and if they plan to fill in the gaps.
 
IIRC, complete system build-out is on track for 2013 (and ahead of schedule).

Geez, folks, you can always call the helpful and informative folks at LockMart for in-flight assistance with weather.

:rolleyes:

ADS-B, LockMartFSS (privatization via monopoly)- 2 great examples of gov't bungling.
 
sballmer said:
In particular this makes we wonder why the ADS-B ground station cannot transmit a "puck of traffic" around every mode C or mode S radar return. My first thought was bandwidth overload, but once they make ADS-B out mandatory, that's what they'll have to do anyway. It seems like so little extra work to make this immensely useful.
Click to expand...

I could make a solid guess as a system designer. Different computers.

The computer that handles creating the "puck" is the same one that receives the inbound traffic data stream. There is probably no data feed to it from existing combined traffic sources that would include the non-ADS-B targets.

It's typical of "bolt-on" engineering.

"This system will take in ADS-B Out Traffic data and spit it into a DB. Another machine in the cluster will create "pucks" from that data and send them within the required timeframes or an alarm will be triggered at the NOC."

Plus bolt-on is really common in government systems since each piece is a new contract bid.

The next bid would be... "Take unified traffic stream data from ATC and convert to formats the "puck" DB needs and we'll deploy that on a new machine/cluster. Then we'll announce that all primary targeted aircraft will trigger "pucks".

Realistically though they won't get to that Stage because they'll mandate ADS-B Out by then...

That's my fictitious guesses from many years of watching IT project management and deploying the systems behind the wonky decisions to not integrate things that are intuitively candidates for integration.
 
Challenged said:
The Sagetech device looks like what I have been waiting for, not only for supporting ADS-B and GPS but also AHRS as well. I'm hoping the Android software developers are going to support this device so we can get a single unit that provides all of this information. If the ADS-B traffic situation were better, this would be like pilot nirvana.
Click to expand...


Pricing is up.

http://sagetechcorp.com/clarity
 
Will the new Clarity have an option for an external antenna? Also What is the connection for charging like? Can you use the a CIG adapter 12/24v with a 2.1 amp usb connection to charge the device?
 
Hello all, Just found this forum so I am new here. I have been evaluating Garmin Pilot, Foreflight and Wing x for the past few months. All great products. Hard to decide on which one to settle on. But now it has come down to ADS-B which will be the decision maker for me.

I actually just this morning ordered the Stratus unit that goes with Foreflight. But hen I found this forum and discovered there are other options coming in the next few months. I will be cancelling this order tomorrow.

Factors in my decision process:
Not being committed to one vendor. ForeFlight and Strauss limit my options to be able to switch products. I would not be able to use my Strauss unit if I decide to use Wing X or Garmin. Clarity looks promising here since it will work with multiple vendors as will as the IPAD and Android I believe.

Also Foreflight is limiting itself to one vendor solution which does not appeal to me. I have been an Android tablet user because of the fact that when the IPHONE/IPAD first came out it would only work on the AT&T network. Having both an Android Motorola Zoom and IPAD3 tablet I prefer the Android but the APPS are limited on the Android at this point in time. Garmin Is catching up here though.

More options to get both ADSB-IN and OUT IF desired.

Currently using XM WX on the Gamin 696 but anxious to get away from the monthly charge as well as Garmin's $500 a year updates. Subscription on Garmin has expired and will not renew it.

Continuing to learn and gather data.
 
dmlad4u,

I find it odd that you preordered the Stratus, but plan to cancel it and wait, possibly months, for a device that has practically zero information from the maker... Including no screenshots nor confirmed software compatibility.

I've read Clarity's entire site (took about 13 seconds) and couldn't find out anything to say it will work with Garmin or Wingx.. come to reread - it doesnt even say foreflight.

regards,

Mike
 
Thanks Mike for your data. I prefer options and willing to wait a few more months to see what develops. I see you are in Dayton. Will be stopping at Sportys on the 19th. Maybe will be able to see it in action. Will also be stopping by the Dayton Hamfest on the way back to MI.

The limited data that is available on the Clarity is a concern. But if it works with other products I am willing to wait to find out. Although Foreflight is a great product I am always looking to have options. I like Garmin and I like Wing X. maybe by the time Clarity has more info and becomes available Garmin and Wingx will have some more features to share.

I know alot of pilots using Foreflight and love it and are anxious to get there hands on Stratus.

Just want to wait a little longer to get more data. I may yet get Stratus. I would probably go ahead with my order to get one if It worked with other products and not
just Foreflight. I like the portability, good battery life, no wires and ease of use
 
I got the data on working with other vendors as well as Android from an previous post. He is an Engineer working on Clarity. This is from his post:

Clarity is compatible with windows and android based tablet computers as well as iPad, and won’t be exclusive to one EFB package like Stratus is. We are working with several EFB software providers and expect wide acceptance.

You can review it on the previous page. He post detail and pictures.
 
dmlad4uu said:
More options to get both ADSB-IN and OUT IF desired.
Click to expand...

I believe you'll be waiting a very long time for ADS-B Out in a portable device setup. Anything capable of transmission into a frequency that could go goofy and lock out other users is going to be certified six-ways-to-Sunday and probably panel mounted.

Reception of ADS-B in via non-Certified devices places risk solely in the cockpit. ADS-B Out done wrong could cause significant outages for other users.
 
Denverpilot, thank you for that input. Both good points. Not being certified is a concern. Although foreflight is a great product it is not my preferred choice. Garmin pilot has come a long way in the past few months and there support team tells me they will have ads-b capability in the 3 rd quarter. Not to far away. I think I will wait a few more months to see how things fall out. Maybe Stratus will open up to other vendors and not just be tied to Foreflight. Any other comments from others would be appreciated.
 
I can't see how Stratus wouldn't want any vendor who wants to use their device to use it. They want to sell as many devices as possible, if they're in biz for the long-haul.

The only way they'd do an exclusive deal with one software vendor would be if that vendor were paying for the exclusivity. Unless they're crazy or dumb.

I'm a Foreflight fan and user too, but there's no way FF has exclusive rights to interface with this box. The only box they probably do have exclusivity to is that Aspen WiFi thing they announced last year. Maybe not even that. Not a huge market segment.

As far as Garmin goes, it would be somewhat sad to see them steal a significant portion of the iPad business from vendors that truly innovated their use in the cockpit, but with airlines and USAF making major purchases of the devices for in-house use, it brought Garmin's money out of their brain hole where they think custom hardware is better than commodity hardware for the user interface and custom software wins the day.

I fully expect to see Garmin add some kind of link between the iPad and their certified gear for transfer of flight plans, etc., just to "keep up with the Joneses" who are Aspen and FF in that market niche.

That's not much of a logical jump, really. Garmin needs the iPad -- not to be center stage in the cockpit, but for their main avionics market, they need it to be a strong supporting cast member.

Think in terms of, "Buy Garmin iPad App and when you step up to an aircraft panel configured with our touch-screen avionics, you can link the two for pre-flight flight planning, weather etc. Then dump your waypoints and plan into the in-panel toys and the iPad will become a secondary display for looking up data from [insert whatever is feeding Garmin PFD here... XM, ADS-B, etc.]."

Avionics are going through interesting times right now. Sadly Garmin has little serious competition in the Certified market for light aircraft. Aspen panels are nice but they have never found a certified GPS partner. Most folks feed the Aspen with... a Garmin.
 
denverpilot said:
I'm a Foreflight fan and user too, but there's no way FF has exclusive rights to interface with this box. The only box they probably do have exclusivity to is that Aspen WiFi thing they announced last year. Maybe not even that. Not a huge market segment.
Click to expand...

ForeFlight has never had exclusivity to the Aspen Connected Panel, they were merely one of several launch partners. ForeFlight's main direct competitor, WingX supports it. Hell, it even works with Garmin stuff.

Aspen panels are nice but they have never found a certified GPS partner. Most folks feed the Aspen with... a Garmin.
Click to expand...

Why do they need their own stuff? People want Garmin GPS's in their stacks, plain and simple. I think if Aspen had their own, they would probably sell fewer of their displays since people would think they couldn't use Garmin stuff with Aspen stuff. As it is, they make an excellent alternative to needing to install a full-blown G500/G600.
 
dmlad4uu said:
... Will be stopping at Sportys on the 19th. Maybe will be able to see it in action. Will also be stopping by the Dayton Hamfest on the way back to MI...
Click to expand...

I was debating doing the same thing! :) (I'm base in Indy). I've not entirely decided but that would be a heck of a weekend. :)
 
Ground report on Stratus at FTG: picked up one station but no data.

Should get the 'kota back with new wingtips this week so maybe get a chance to try it in the air. Encouraged by ground reception...
 
Dave, I lived in Carmel for a 1 1/2. Got back to MI abt 3 months ago. Flew out of TYQ and MQJ. Let me know if you decide to go. Will look you up. Getting to Sportys and Dayton was half the distance from where I am at in MI. Miss that part.
 
Thanks DenverPilot. Good information. Looks like ADS-B is working well in the eastern part of the US anyway. I was just at the Clarity web site and they have a bit more details, supporting WING-X and hopefully more soon. They are going to release for OSHKOSH. They will have a booth there. Stratus is going over well. Hopefully they will open up to others soon like Garmin Pilot and Wing-X.
 
denverpilot said:
I believe you'll be waiting a very long time for ADS-B Out in a portable device setup. Anything capable of transmission into a frequency that could go goofy and lock out other users is going to be certified six-ways-to-Sunday and probably panel mounted.

Reception of ADS-B in via non-Certified devices places risk solely in the cockpit. ADS-B Out done wrong could cause significant outages for other users.
Click to expand...

Clarity does make an ADS-B Out device; not sure if their transponders can be installed in certified production aircraft though. They make equipment for drones, among other things... but their diagrams do show that they are making (or have made) a head unit for those that need to be able to change transponder codes and modes in flight.

http://sagetechcorp.com/overview/overview

Worlds-Smallest.jpg


Web-Conventional-Configuration.jpg
 
I just looked the Sagetech Clarity web page at www.sagetechcorp.com/clarity. Looks like they are taking preorders for a NEW ADS-B receiver it shows traffic and has synthetic vision, which is really cool, the prices look good, and it is small. Supposed to be at Oshkosh........Stratus is gonna have some serious competitin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Flyer000042 - you joined POA just to post that? What affiliation do you have to sagetech?

Interesting.
 
Still waiting on Garmin's Pilot to support one of these inflight weather products...
 
Did a search, didn't find a more relevant thread.

Trying to make a decision on the cheapest way to get baseline pictorial NEXRAD inflight. Right now it's either springing for a 396 and cough up the XM WX monthly subscription or going with the basic skyradar receive-only box and feed it into an iphone in-flight for $0 monthly subscription. Tired of using the dice and vodoo doll connect-the-dot-sigmet over HIWAS frequency method to update my 4 hour old wx picture on the ground, at night to boot lol.

I've seen the youtube videos of the skyradar app and the pictorial seems good enough for enhancing SA, which is what I'm trying to accomplish. I keep thinking there's a catch, because there's no way, other than coverage gaps, that someone selling you lemonade for 60 bucks a month can stay in business when the other guy is selling it to you for "free" because the other 300 blokes on your street are paying it for you.

Thanks!
 
The SkyRadar App requires a $65 annual fee. It's kinda buried on their website.

I assume if you're using someone else's App to display the data, that annual fee doesn't apply if you don't install their App.
 
denverpilot said:
The SkyRadar App requires a $65 annual fee. It's kinda buried on their website.

I assume if you're using someone else's App to display the data, that annual fee doesn't apply if you don't install their App.
Click to expand...

Oh gotcha. $65 a year doesn't sound bad. Thanks!

I guess I'll be placing my order for the ADS receiver and get back to yall when I do the field testing! :goofy:
 
Let those of us here in the flyover States completely baren of ADS-B ground stations, how you like it.

The good news is while we wait on FAA to finish deployment, you guys on the Coasts can figure out which products work and which don't. ;)
 
I have spoken to Garmin reps and support asking the ADS-B question. They are hinting 3rd qtr or Oshkosh. It sounds like they being in the avionics business they will have there own receiver. I like Garmin Pilot the best running on Android. Just need a ADS-B receiver. Going to OSH to check things out. I also have a Garmin 696 with built in XM WX. Hoping they will have a new one with ADS-B built in. If only there subscriptions where a lot more reasonable. Like the Tablet subscriptions. Will see what OSH brings.
 
Does anybody know if the NEXRAD radar can be animated. When I connect the Stratus to my IPad I only get a fixed display of weather?
 
I only see static imagery. Given the download bandwidth, I dont see animated happening.
 
Well, I'll try to remember to try it at home tonight. I bought one at OSH and found that I can actually get a signal on the ground at home, because I'm apparently close enough to the local transmitter!
 
Thanks for the reply Mike & John. After doing some research, I don't think the Stratus will animate. And doing some more work, the new Garmin GDL will do the same as Stratus but with animation AND traffic. You will have to use Garmin app to power the Garmin instead of Foreflight but the yearly subscription cost the same. Might be worth looking into!!
 
John Borden said:
the new Garmin GDL will do the same as Stratus but with animation AND traffic.
Click to expand...

Be VERY careful with "traffic" from such devices!

The vast majority of the time, you will NOT see any traffic. You also may get a traffic alert about a plane that's 4 miles to your left, when there's simultaneously another airplane 1 mile dead ahead and another 1/2 mile to your right that you won't get alerts for.

The reason for this is that the way the ADS-B system works is that traffic gets broadcast to aircraft that have ADS-B *out* (the Stratus, GDL-39, SkyRadar, etc are ADS-B *in* only) in a "puck" shape - That is, anything within (IIRC) 3000 feet vertically and 15nm laterally of the ADS-B Out equipped aircraft. If you're not within 15nm of an ADS-B Out equipped aircraft, you'll receive NO traffic information at all from the GDL-39! Also, even if you are close to an ADS-B out aircraft and do get traffic info, it's within the other plane's "puck" and if you are near the edge of the puck, you could get alerts for planes closer to the ADS-B Out airplane that are much farther away or no factor that will draw your attention away from airplanes that aren't within the puck but are closer to you, and which you will NOT receive an alert for!

Given this limitation, ForeFlight smartly chose to not give their users a false sense of security or lure their eyes inside any more than necessary.

Look out the damn window!!! :nono:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Be VERY careful with "traffic" from such devices![...]
Click to expand...
Agreed!
flyingcheesehead said:
Given this limitation, ForeFlight smartly chose to not give their users a false sense of security or lure their eyes inside any more than necessary.
Click to expand...
I disagree with the word "smartly." In my mind, "smartly" would have been to give the user the option, maybe requiring them to actually read and agree to some sort of indemnification clause if FF is woried about their legal liability. If I understand the limitations, of if I actually have ADS-B OUT installed and want FF for backup or don't have ADS-B IN too, then I as the customer would like to have that data displayed to me. Actually, FF may be incurring liability if my plane gets hit be another plane that was seen by the ADS-B IN but that FF opted not to display. I don't know. I just wish they didn't take the "Apple" route of deciding what is good for me.
flyingcheesehead said:
Look out the damn window!!! :nono:
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:
 
gprellwitz said:
I just wish they didn't take the "Apple" route of deciding what is good for me.
Click to expand...

Well, it's not quite the same.

If the feature is added, and someone dies because of it, the guys who makes Foreflight would have the burdon of that for the rest of there lives.

It's just a few guys, who love to fly and make tools to help people fly. There choice is for safety. Apples choice, is for revenue.
 
Last edited:
Mafoo said:
Well, it's not quite the same.

If the feature is added, and someone dies because of it, the guys who makes Foreflight would have the burdon of that for the rest of there lives.

It's just a few guys, who love to fly and make tools to help people fly. There choice is for safety. Apples choice, is for revenue.
Click to expand...
My point is that it isn't (necessarily) for safety, and can in some circumstances decrease safety. It's based on their perception of safety!

If I have ADS-B OUT installed in the aircraft and FF won't display ADS-B IN traffic, then they are unilaterally eliminating a safety tool rather than allowing the consumer to make the determination. If someone then hits me, even though they would have been displayed, wouldn't they have that same burden for the rest of their lives?

Note that I purchased the product regardless of this, because the planes I fly don't have ADS-B OUT. I just wish that they wouldn't be trying to act in loco parentis here. I'm an adult and am capable of weighing the benefits, risks, and consequences myself.
 
gprellwitz said:
My point is that it isn't (necessarily) for safety, and can in some circumstances decrease safety. It's based on their perception of safety!

If I have ADS-B OUT installed in the aircraft and FF won't display ADS-B IN traffic, then they are unilaterally eliminating a safety tool rather than allowing the consumer to make the determination. If someone then hits me, even though they would have been displayed, wouldn't they have that same burden for the rest of their lives?

Note that I purchased the product regardless of this, because the planes I fly don't have ADS-B OUT. I just wish that they wouldn't be trying to act in loco parentis here. I'm an adult and am capable of weighing the benefits, risks, and consequences myself.
Click to expand...

Well, if they had spent the time to develop something, and then chose not to let you use it, I guess that's about the same.

ForeFlight doesn't do dozens of things that if it did when you needed it, could save your life. The absence of something I don't think is the same burden, as providing you something that could give you a false sense of security.
 
Mafoo said:
Well, if they had spent the time to develop something, and then chose not to let you use it, I guess that's about the same.

ForeFlight doesn't do dozens of things that if it did when you needed it, could save your life. The absence of something I don't think is the same burden, as providing you something that could give you a false sense of security.
Click to expand...

Good pont about the development effort. And if they did make the effort to develop the feature and then it malfunctioned, that could lead to liability too.
 
I can promise you that there is no more liability in providing traffic alerts than there is in providing geo-referenced approach charts. They just haven't wanted to do it yet. It has nothing to do with liability. There are dozens of features that people want and they have chosen not to do for one reason or another. They're not the "feature" kings. They're the "best experience with the features that you choose to implement" kings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top