Foreflight PDC

Grum.Man

Grum.Man

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Grum.Man
So foreflight has rolled out the new PDC feature to the masses. Oddly enough it seems to be limited to more popular/busy airports which seems counter intuitive to me. I would have rather seen it rolled out to rural airports where you have to either pick your clearance up in the air or via phone.

Of course in Foreflight fashion it's only available on the most expensive subscriptions. I'm curious who on here would be willing to pay for it? I am fine paying $200.00 per year for all the goodies in Foreflight ProPlus but another 100.00 for what doesn't seem like much is too far.

And for the people who don't like Foreflight, or don't want to pay "when there is other options for free", save me your pity party and bandwidth ;).
 
PDCs need a critical mass of users for ATC to justify the additional equipment and costs. Even in the 121 world I flew to a lot of one horse commercial airports that didn't offer PDCs.

But they are super nice!!
 
Providing you fly out of an airport with CD. For me the value is all the airports I usually go that do not have CD. I have to call 1-800-wx-brief, they relay the message to ATC then relay it back to me. Then it's a rush to get going before the clearance expires or worse yet you have to stand by for clearance while you are baking in the airplane and burning gas.

The other option is to get it in the air but I am always worried I will get some convoluted amended clearance and have to sort it all out while trying to fly the airplane.
 
PDC is very nice, although it's already yestertech for those of us who've been using PDC in enabled aircraft for many years. CPDLC and push to load is the new latest and greatest.

The concept of text message PDC is great. The need for it in most GA aircraft is minimal because we tend not to use the 75 busiest airports in the nation. There are exceptions, of course, and for those who are based at, or frequent one of those airports, this could be a very nice feature.

PDC wasn't designed to be scaleable to every airport in the US. But this opens the door for what could be, someday.
 
I see this as more of a move in a good direction for everyone.

Yeah, the PDC is limited to a few airports, and, at the moment, more useful the the kerosene burners whose flight departments are paying for the top level subscription price.

But if this is a step toward the general direction for any of us to get our IFR clearance at any airport, and it comes down to the $200 subscription level.
 
Don’t think the service justifies the cost,for my type of flying. I do believe it is a good service,also like the way foreflight keeps offering new service choices.
 
Had it when I was flying for the airline. Kinda nice as we could get the ATIS and PDC without bugging ATC. In GA I wouldn't spend for it though, especially considering limited the amount of airports where one could use it.
 
Grum.Man said:
So foreflight has rolled out the new PDC feature to the masses. Oddly enough it seems to be limited to more popular/busy airports which seems counter intuitive to me. I would have rather seen it rolled out to rural airports where you have to either pick your clearance up in the air or via phone.
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PDC isn't a ForeFlight thing, it's an FAA thing. ForeFlight is just allowing more people to take advantage of it.

FWIW, you have to register an *airplane* in the program, not a person - And once that airplane is registered for PDC, you can't call and get a clearance on the radio at a PDC airport any more. For that reason, since I have a partner with a lower level ForeFlight subscription, I can't register my plane for it anyway.

Of course in Foreflight fashion it's only available on the most expensive subscriptions. I'm curious who on here would be willing to pay for it? I am fine paying $200.00 per year for all the goodies in Foreflight ProPlus but another 100.00 for what doesn't seem like much is too far.
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The Performance version of ForeFlight is aimed at those who are flying turbine equipment, and those are the people who would generally use PDC to begin with. I don't think they expect anyone to pay for the Performance subscription just to get PDC.

FWIW, I did see something about clearance-via-text being tested at some airport out in Virginia or something, so it sounds like the FAA is working on that too, but that's a different thing than this is.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
PDC isn't a ForeFlight thing, it's an FAA thing. ForeFlight is just allowing more people to take advantage of it.

FWIW, you have to register an *airplane* in the program, not a person - And once that airplane is registered for PDC, you can't call and get a clearance on the radio at a PDC airport any more. For that reason, since I have a partner with a lower level ForeFlight subscription, I can't register my plane for it anyway.
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Sort of.

"1234A, clearance to Podunk, Tango."

"1234A, clearance. Sent it via PDC."

"Ah, roger. Didn't get it."

"4A, stand by... ready to copy?"

"Go ahead."

(The above transcript mirrors a similar conversation I've had about a hundred times in the last 10 years -- and I was flying properly equipped aircraft at PDC-capable airports.) In fact, in some cases I'd used PDC successfully that same day at a different airport on the other side of the country. The system's robustness is so-so.

Another common issue is getting the "KXYZ is not a valid PDC airport" message on the CDU after requesting the clearance via PDC. Who knows why it happens.

Anyway, point being, PDC won't really be a restrictive in a black-or-white sort of way. It's just enhanced capability which mostly works, but the ATC is quite familiar with reverting to voice as needed.
 
Remember that Cessna 150s at the local grass strip use foreflight, as does a G5 departing TEB as part of a big corporate flight department. It’s not one size fits all, buy what you need.


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LT4247 said:
Interesting thread,,,if i knew what PDC is,,
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Visit the ForeFlight blog and read the entry about this feature. That should answer your question.
 
jordane93 said:
Meh. Not worth the extra money. It’s really not a hassle at all to call up CD and pick up your clearance IMO
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This is how I feel. If I were flying IFR several times per month, maybe worth the upgrade. I file/fly IFR maybe 3-4x per year (and occasionally pick up pop-up IFR otherwise).
 
Not worth the cost IMHO. FF should have given this to everyone if the feature is that important. It isn't, so they didn't.

Phone is Bluetooth connected to audio panel and have CD frequencies. What more does one need? Write CRAFT on a paper and copy down directions.

Maybe fltplan Go will add for free?
 
AggieMike88 said:
with Garmin owning the FltPlan assets, my confidence is low that it will be a free offering.
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We'll have to wait and see. I have internal contacts in CT and I need to give this person a bit more time then I will check back in. Cost is my #1 question.
 
I just signed up for PDC via Foreflight.. They said it should be ready for use by Monday. There are only a few airports that I fly into that have it.. BNA, CVG, IND, and MDW... It will be fun to try. I am ready for them to enable this for my small municipal airport.. Radio coverage sucks and sometimes phone calls go unanswered..
 
I just looked up the list and on first glance, it seems EVERY Class B and C airport is there except my home field ORF! WTF?!?
 
GLMS_NC said:
Not worth the cost IMHO. FF should have given this to everyone if the feature is that important. It isn't, so they didn't.

Phone is Bluetooth connected to audio panel and have CD frequencies. What more does one need? Write CRAFT on a paper and copy down directions.

Maybe fltplan Go will add for free?
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Fltplan already has it, for a fee. They have actually had it for quite a while.
 
Grum.Man said:
So foreflight has rolled out the new PDC feature to the masses. Oddly enough it seems to be limited to more popular/busy airports which seems counter intuitive to me. I would have rather seen it rolled out to rural airports where you have to either pick your clearance up in the air or via phone.

Of course in Foreflight fashion it's only available on the most expensive subscriptions. I'm curious who on here would be willing to pay for it? I am fine paying $200.00 per year for all the goodies in Foreflight ProPlus but another 100.00 for what doesn't seem like much is too far.

And for the people who don't like Foreflight, or don't want to pay "when there is other options for free", save me your pity party and bandwidth ;).
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I just gotta say that $100 for anything aviation-related is essentially free.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I just looked up the list and on first glance, it seems EVERY Class B and C airport is there except my home field ORF! WTF?!?
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Not even close... Lots of Cs that aren't on the list. In fact, I think when I looked at the list there was only one C that I had ever been to or had plans to go to (RDU).
 
I’m going to try it next weekend when I fly down to SDF..



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It's a nice feature, but that's really all it is. It's not a game-changer; it's just another subtle move towards streamlined operations, removing cumbersome voice communications and replacing them with simpler and more reliable datalink products.

Its value will vary based on how often you frequent PDC-capable airports. If you're based at one -- or frequently go in and out of one -- the utility needle might move up a bit more. I don't fly into enough of those airports in my little plane to justify spending anything on it. Even if it was free I'd still only use it occasionally. I go to big airports when I fly jets. I see little advantage to going to them in my avgas-burner.

What's more interesting here is the direction this is all going. Mitre's work in HEF along with PDC starting to get rolled out/made more available to GA pilots shows that datalink capability may have some inroads with our piston/recreational flying fleet. Getting clearances at non-PDC/CPDLC airports is really where utility and safety go way up, in my view, and these recent developments hint at the possibility of that happening. I'd love to be able to get my IFR clearance on my iPhone or iPad while I'm taxiing out in Podunk, NC, after getting my cheap self-serve fuel on my run from northern Jersey to Central Florida. Then, copy and paste that into my Foreflight FPL strip and "send to panel" via my Flightstream 510. That's still a lot more work and prone to errors than Push-to-Load CPDLC capability in turbine equipment, but it sure beats copying a clearance from FSS or the TRACON phone operator and hoping you wrote it down correctly.

This has a "stay tuned for more... " feel to it.
 
Tried out PDC today at SDF.. odd not talking to CD but it worked great and I actually received the clearance within 2 minutes of filing within ForeFlight... cool feature! I wish it was available at more rural airports and it could be a HUGE step forward in receiving clearances!


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Indiana_Pilot said:
I wish it was available at more rural airports and it could be a HUGE step forward in receiving clearances!
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There is a project from the MITRE group working on "remote" clearances via mobile devices such as smartphones and tablets.
 
The best two things about EFBs is ease of updating and reduced cost. FF has destroyed the reduced cost half of the EFB benefit, but I do not understand the software bell and whistle junkies who just got to have it..
 
Clip4 said:
The best two things about EFBs is ease of updating and reduced cost. FF has destroyed the reduced cost half of the EFB benefit, but I do not understand the software bell and whistle junkies who just got to have it..
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ForeFlight is priced similarly to the other EFBs out there that aren't free. And the free ones generally don't last long.

It's also quite reduced compared to what we had before EFBs. In 2008, I took a single trip where the sectionals, enroutes, plates, and AFDs cost me $225 and took up two grocery bags. I do NOT miss those days, and I'm absolutely sure that ForeFlight has cost less than the necessary paper charts would have over that time frame. In fact, a ForeFlight subscription costs less than keeping those paper charts current just for a local area.
 
Clip4 said:
The best two things about EFBs is ease of updating and reduced cost. FF has destroyed the reduced cost half of the EFB benefit, but I do not understand the software bell and whistle junkies who just got to have it..
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Because it's the best, hands-down, and the cost is minimal in the grand scheme. Aviation is expensive; a <$200/yr. expense for the functionality of FF is well worth it.

With free, you get what you pay for. I personally found Fltplan Go to be borderline unusable, but I know some used it and even liked it. However, when you rely on free products you choose to stand on the constantly shifting sands of the marketplace battleground... sure enough, Fltplan has been absorbed by Garmin leaving those users to deal with what will ultimately be a change in service, and likely price. Long ago I decided to simply pay for what I used and not worry about it. That has proven to be an excellent strategy for this general aviation aircraft owner.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
ForeFlight is priced similarly to the other EFBs out there that aren't free. And the free ones generally don't last long.

It's also quite reduced compared to what we had before EFBs. In 2008, I took a single trip where the sectionals, enroutes, plates, and AFDs cost me $225 and took up two grocery bags. I do NOT miss those days, and I'm absolutely sure that ForeFlight has cost less than the necessary paper charts would have over that time frame. In fact, a ForeFlight subscription costs less than keeping those paper charts current just for a local area.
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Just get drinking the FF KoolAid. WingX will do everything you need for 1/3 your current cost.
 
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Clip4 said:
Just get drinking the FF KoolAid. WingX will do everything you need for 1/3 your current cost.
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No, it won't. Only ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot can talk to my panel for flight plans, ADS-B traffic and weather, etc.

In fact, after so many people gave ForeFlight crap for being a walled garden in the early Stratus days, they are the ONLY app that can connect to Garmin, Avidyne, AND Aspen panels. Oh, and L-3 and FreeFlight and Dynon and Appareo too. Once they perfected things via the Stratus, they're now the most widely compatible app there is.

But, you're a well-known ForeFlight hater. I know I'm not gonna convince you of anything - I merely present facts here so that others who stumble on this thread later aren't misinformed.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
No, it won't. Only ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot can talk to my panel for flight plans, ADS-B traffic and weather, etc.

In fact, after so many people gave ForeFlight crap for being a walled garden in the early Stratus days, they are the ONLY app that can connect to Garmin, Avidyne, AND Aspen panels. Oh, and L-3 and FreeFlight and Dynon and Appareo too. Once they perfected things via the Stratus, they're now the most widely compatible app there is.

But, you're a well-known ForeFlight hater. I know I'm not gonna convince you of anything - I merely present facts here so that others who stumble on this thread later aren't misinformed.
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Great if you are flying behind $40k in new avionics, but if you are flying an aircraft like a legacy Cirrus FF does what the Avidyne hardware in that plane? Nothing.
 
Clip4 said:
Great if you are flying behind $40k in new avionics, but if you are flying an aircraft like a legacy Cirrus FF does what the Avidyne hardware in that plane? Nothing.
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A legacy Cirrus is going to need an avionics update for ADS-B. I think the Avidyne-equipped ones were still using non-WAAS 430s, so it's not at all unlikely that they'd swap one of them out for either a Garmin 650 with a FlightStream paired with a 345 or a 330ES upgrade, or for an Avidyne 440 that has WiFi built in. ForeFlight is compatible with both, and is the only app to be compatible with both. WingX is compatible with neither.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
A legacy Cirrus is going to need an avionics update for ADS-B. I think the Avidyne-equipped ones were still using non-WAAS 430s, so it's not at all unlikely that they'd swap one of them out for either a Garmin 650 with a FlightStream paired with a 345 or a 330ES upgrade, or for an Avidyne 440 that has WiFi built in. ForeFlight is compatible with both, and is the only app to be compatible with both. WingX is compatible with neither.
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If you are flying a SR22 and were too cheap to upgrade to WAAS GPS by now you are not upgrading to have full FF capatibility today. Good try.

Also if you want a good transponder, you are buying a L3 Lynx which is fully compatible WingX and most other EFB instead of being restricted to Pilot and FF by Garmin.
 
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Clip4 said:
If you are flying a SR22 and were too cheap to upgrade to WAAS GPS by now you are not upgrading to have full FF capatibility today. Good try.
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Well let's see. I looked up some legacy (pre-Garmin Perspective) SR22s that are on the market to see what they looked like. Of the 4 that have been upgraded to ADS-B:

2 got the dual IFD440s (Compatible with several apps, including ForeFlight, but not WingX or Garmin Pilot)
1 got their original gear upgraded to 430W and 330ES (no tablet compatibility)
1 got the 430Ws and GTX345 (ForeFlight/Garmin Pilot)

So, 3/4 are compatible with ForeFlight, and zero are compatible with WingX.

Also if you want a good transponder, you are buying a L3 Lynx which is fully compatible WingX and most other EFB instead of being restricted to Pilot and FF by Garmin.
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It's a good unit, but not for everyone. We passed on it because it cost more than Garmin, wouldn't send weather to the GTN, and the screen wasn't worth it because we don't have room for the transponder in the first stack, so it's pretty far out of the pilot's field of view (down near the bottom of the 2nd stack).
 
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