ForeFlight market penetration

Do you fly with a tablet EFB? What device and what app is your primary EFB?

  • iPad with ForeFlight

  • iPad with Garmin Pilot

  • iPad with WingX

  • iPad with another app

  • Android with Garmin Pilot

  • Android with WingX

  • Android with Avare

  • Android with another app

  • Other portable electronic device

  • I'm still using paper charts and no gadgets

Results are only viewable after voting.
flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
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UQACY, WI
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iMooniac
In the process of deciding how to equip our last club plane with ADS-B, I recently did a survey of our members to see what they're flying with for an EFB.

Of the 30 members (100% of whom responded), 28 fly with iPads, and 27 of those 28 use ForeFlight as their primary EFB app, with the 28th using it as the backup to Garmin Pilot. (We also have one person using a Garmin portable GPS and one still using paper charts.)

90%!!! And that's 90% of all of the club's pilots, not just those with an iPad!

What do you all use?
 
Interesting poll. I am curious about the connection to the type of EFB used and how to equip the plane with ADS-B.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Interesting poll. I am curious about the connection to the type of EFB used and how to equip the plane with ADS-B.
Click to expand...

We wanted to make sure that whatever we chose worked with as many pilots' setups as possible. Garmin gear only talks to Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight. Stratus only talks to ForeFlight, period. We had pretty much narrowed it down to the Stratus ESi, Garmin 335 (with Stratus or GDL39/3D), or Garmin 345.

It turned out that in spite of the high percentage of ForeFlight users, we decided to go with the GTX 345 (which works with both ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot). Some of the discounts we were able to get put the price difference between it and the others at around $1100, so it just made more sense to go with the panel-mount in/out solution, which we'll hook to the GNS 430W and possibly even a FlightStream 210 for flight plan transfer.
 
Even though I have a GTN650/GTX345 combo in my plane, I use WingX on my iPad. I also have a Stratux to feed ADS-B to WingX.
 
I replaced the Garmin 496 with the IPad foreflight ,mainly to get weather and Geo referenced approach plates.
 
iFlyGPS. Started out with their dedicated hardware, and still have that, but it's now my backup to a Samsung Tab S2. (It's available on iOS and Windows platforms, as well, and works with just about every ADSB device out there, except Stratus.)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
In the process of deciding how to equip our last club plane with ADS-B, I recently did a survey of our members to see what they're flying with for an EFB.

Of the 30 members (100% of whom responded), 28 fly with iPads, and 27 of those 28 use ForeFlight as their primary EFB app, with the 28th using it as the backup to Garmin Pilot. (We also have one person using a Garmin portable GPS and one still using paper charts.)

90%!!! And that's 90% of all of the club's pilots, not just those with an iPad!

What do you all use?
Click to expand...

If that is true, you might want to set up a club account with FF and save your members some money.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Interesting poll. I am curious about the connection to the type of EFB used and how to equip the plane with ADS-B.
Click to expand...

Garmin only allows FF and GP wth their hardware and the purchaser is at the mercy of Garmin for app pricing in the future.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It turned out that in spite of the high percentage of ForeFlight users, we decided to go with the GTX 345 (which works with both ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot). Some of the discounts we were able to get put the price difference between it and the others at around $1100, so it just made more sense to go with the panel-mount in/out solution, which we'll hook to the GNS 430W and possibly even a FlightStream 210 for flight plan transfer.
Click to expand...
Yes the GTX-345 seems to be the best choice for out/panel mount in that works with FF. My avionics guy recommended it to me and it's probably what I will have him install in the Branded Bird when the time comes - most likely next summer. I'm in no huge hurry since I already have ADS-B in/out with the GDL 90... the only problem is, it's not 2020-compliant.

(That little switcheroo on the part of the FAA still has me a little bitter toward them, since when I bought my plane, one of the selling points was ADS-B compliance from the get-go. And indeed, it's one of the reasons the seller felt confident he could command a higher price for the plane than most Cardinals were going for. :mad:)
 
azure said:
Yes the GTX-345 seems to be the best choice for out/panel mount in that works with FF. My avionics guy recommended it to me and it's probably what I will have him install in the Branded Bird when the time comes - most likely next summer. I'm in no huge hurry since I already have ADS-B in/out with the GDL 90... the only problem is, it's not 2020-compliant.

(That little switcheroo on the part of the FAA still has me a little bitter toward them, since when I bought my plane, one of the selling points was ADS-B compliance from the get-go. And indeed, it's one of the reasons the seller felt confident he could command a higher price for the plane than most Cardinals were going for. :mad:)
Click to expand...
I almost installed the GDL 90 when I upgraded my panel four years ago, now I'm glad I didn't!! I didn't know it wasn't compliant with the 2020 mandate!
 
N747JB said:
I almost installed the GDL 90 when I upgraded my panel four years ago, now I'm glad I didn't!! I didn't know it wasn't compliant with the 2020 mandate!
Click to expand...
I'm actually not sure when they published the compliance standards that excluded the GDL 90. It might have been after 2013, in fact I wasn't aware of it until 2015 or thereabouts, iirc.
 
I currently use an Android tablet with GP, mainly for approach plates when IFR. I will soon be switching due to going into 135 operations that will require an iPad with Foreflight.
 
Interesting poll.
I'm one of the FF on iPad users. Based on previous thread discussions about these apps, especially the complaints about FF pricing and lack of Android capability, I wouldn't have expected quite the result we are seeing in this poll.
 
ForeFlight, L3 Lynx


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
GRG55 said:
Interesting poll.
I'm one of the FF on iPad users. Based on previous thread discussions about these apps, especially the complaints about FF pricing and lack of Android capability, I wouldn't have expected quite the result we are seeing in this poll.
Click to expand...
The results shouldn't be that surprising. People complain about ForeFlight pricing but the bottom line is they've created a product that works well, have been responsive to their customer base on features, and have expanded their market with the partnership with Jepp. Even the Stratus partnership, it you think about it, is about customer retention. After spending the bucks for a Stratus, not that many think about moving on to something else. And the longer you stay with a product, the better you get to know it and the more likely you will miss even unessential features you have gotten used to. They have been brilliant, or brilliantly lucky, in their marketing.

Obviously, there are individual exceptions. My Stratus 2 is on eBay and I am now using a Stratux (the bidding itself is a sign of how popular the app is). Part of the decision is that I like to maintain a decent comfort level with multiple EFB apps for instructional purposes and I want the compatibility. But another is, it gives me the freedom to wean myself away from FF as it develops what I see as more and more bloat. Will I switch? Beats me. I already know features I have become used to are in some apps and not in others. Will it make a difference when renewal time comes in about 6 months? Don't know.

And that's just in the iOS world. iPad EFBs got about a 2-year jump on Android. There are some very good Android EFB apps but some are "labors of love" with very small customer bases and others are and best behind and at worst watered down versions of their iOS app - again reflective of the perceived customer base.
 
It was challenging to get to a FF rep at their booth at OSH this year, so maybe that should have been an indicator for me.
 
Clip4 said:
If that is true, you might want to set up a club account with FF and save your members some money.
Click to expand...

How does that work? I wasn't even aware that was a possibility. I'd sure love to do club-wide document sharing through FF.
 
Although I am rethinking the Foreflight thing after a nasty iPad/iOS fail last week. Essentially from the full power-off position, the iPad insisted that it re-activate itself, then refused to do so over wifi. (this was during the eclipse so I was in the field without wired connection or iTunes - plan was to use iPad as remote control for dslr camera). That's a non-starter for an EFB. It would leave one really stuck and f***ed if the iPad were to insist on reactivation and there were no means to do so.

I'm considering whether an Android pad with appropriate software is necessary.
 
azure said:
I'm actually not sure when they published the compliance standards that excluded the GDL 90. It might have been after 2013, in fact I wasn't aware of it until 2015 or thereabouts, iirc.
Click to expand...
I did my install in 2013, I went with the GDL 88 for XM radio and weather, I will upgrade it to make it ADS-B compliant this winter when I am not flying as much. I've got the Garmin remote transponders, so I will have to swap one of them out I think.
 
wsuffa said:
Although I am rethinking the Foreflight thing after a nasty iPad/iOS fail last week. Essentially from the full power-off position, the iPad insisted that it re-activate itself, then refused to do so over wifi. (this was during the eclipse so I was in the field without wired connection or iTunes - plan was to use iPad as remote control for dslr camera). That's a non-starter for an EFB. It would leave one really stuck and f***ed if the iPad were to insist on reactivation and there were no means to do so.

I'm considering whether an Android pad with appropriate software is necessary.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't make a switch for a reason like that. Glitches can happen with any tablet. If an Android option were available when I first got an EFB, I would have taken it, so I'm no Apple fan-boy. And I know there are good Android options out there. But I have not had a glitch like you describe in an iPad in the 7 years I have been using one. That's a pretty good record for stability.
 
wsuffa said:
Although I am rethinking the Foreflight thing after a nasty iPad/iOS fail last week. Essentially from the full power-off position, the iPad insisted that it re-activate itself, then refused to do so over wifi. (this was during the eclipse so I was in the field without wired connection or iTunes - plan was to use iPad as remote control for dslr camera). That's a non-starter for an EFB. It would leave one really stuck and f***ed if the iPad were to insist on reactivation and there were no means to do so.

I'm considering whether an Android pad with appropriate software is necessary.
Click to expand...
I have had iPads for 4 or 5 years and have never had an issue with either one of them. I don't use mine for a lot of things, mostly FF, emails, and a few work related things when I travel. My wife has one of the HUGE iPads and it went black last week and won't power up, so it's off to the Apple store with it! :eek:
 
N747JB said:
I have had iPads for 4 or 5 years and have never had an issue with either one of them. I don't use mine for a lot of things, mostly FF, emails, and a few work related things when I travel. My wife has one of the HUGE iPads and it went black last week and won't power up, so it's off to the Apple store with it! :eek:
Click to expand...

If you move to Android thinking it's less glitchy, you'll be disappointed....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Used to fly with a Samsung Note and Garmin Pilot, switched to FF though after about a year. I fought it, but in the end FF just gave me more of what I needed and it supports more GPS devices including the Stratux. Garmin is somewhat limited I believe.
 
All the charts are on the MFD in the Cirrus. I also carry my iPhone which has WingX on it. Occasionally I'll have a sectional or low enroute chart.
 
wsuffa said:
Although I am rethinking the Foreflight thing after a nasty iPad/iOS fail last week. Essentially from the full power-off position, the iPad insisted that it re-activate itself, then refused to do so over wifi. (this was during the eclipse so I was in the field without wired connection or iTunes - plan was to use iPad as remote control for dslr camera). That's a non-starter for an EFB. It would leave one really stuck and f***ed if the iPad were to insist on reactivation and there were no means to do so.
Click to expand...

Bill,

Let me add to Mark's experience - I also haven't had a single such instance in 7.5 years of flying with the iPad. Of course, I've never put it in airplane mode and done a hard reboot either, but as I'm a beta tester for ForeFlight I've gotten less-stable versions than you all see from time to time, and I have hard-rebooted my iPad in the air as a result, with no issue.

I also don't recall ever having any sort of "forced activation" on boot under any circumstances, so I'm wondering if you have some sort of third-party software that's initiating that. Might be worth a visit to an Apple store to figure out the cause.
 
On that note, anyone using the avidyne bundle of 550 plus Adan in/out? If so, do you use fore flight too? I currently use gp with the gtx 345 and it's great but I don't know if you still need it if you use the ifd 100 software


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flyingcheesehead said:
Bill,

Let me add to Mark's experience - I also haven't had a single such instance in 7.5 years of flying with the iPad. Of course, I've never put it in airplane mode and done a hard reboot either, but as I'm a beta tester for ForeFlight I've gotten less-stable versions than you all see from time to time, and I have hard-rebooted my iPad in the air as a result, with no issue.

I also don't recall ever having any sort of "forced activation" on boot under any circumstances, so I'm wondering if you have some sort of third-party software that's initiating that. Might be worth a visit to an Apple store to figure out the cause.
Click to expand...
This is my first time in 5 years, too, and there is no new software on the unit since the last OS upgrade.

Were it not a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity where it occurred, it would only bother me a bit, but given the unexpected nature of what happened, I become concerned with a mission-critical EFB. This wasn't FF failing, this was the iPad essentially bricked. The second I plugged it into iTunes when I got home, all was well.

And, yes, I'd done a full simulation before the trip, including the cold boot of the iPad.

The folks at the Apple Store here are far less than helpful (and frankly one of my objections of Apple is the inability to do anything other than take it to them, but that's not the issue here. The local folks had a problem with my request for a port adapter - it took an hour to get the manager to find it, even though it was in stock... But the folks at the store will help if you want a new $600 iDevice.

Android is cheap enough that I can toss it and get a new one.

In the end, the shoot was saved because I had the photo capture software on my two phones.

So I ask this: you're on a trip in the boonies with FF as your EFB and the iPad throws the "must be activated" message. You don't have a laptop with you because you're traveling light, and the iPad refuses to activate over wifi. iPhone battery is low. Now what? Or worse, the phone bricks too because it's the same version of iOS.

I'm thinking it's only prudent to have a separate hardware/firmware platform available.
 
wsuffa said:
This is my first time in 5 years, too, and there is no new software on the unit since the last OS upgrade.

Were it not a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity where it occurred, it would only bother me a bit, but given the unexpected nature of what happened, I become concerned with a mission-critical EFB. This wasn't FF failing, this was the iPad essentially bricked. The second I plugged it into iTunes when I got home, all was well.

And, yes, I'd done a full simulation before the trip, including the cold boot of the iPad.

The folks at the Apple Store here are far less than helpful (and frankly one of my objections of Apple is the inability to do anything other than take it to them, but that's not the issue here. The local folks had a problem with my request for a port adapter - it took an hour to get the manager to find it, even though it was in stock... But the folks at the store will help if you want a new $600 iDevice.

Android is cheap enough that I can toss it and get a new one.

In the end, the shoot was saved because I had the photo capture software on my two phones.

So I ask this: you're on a trip in the boonies with FF as your EFB and the iPad throws the "must be activated" message. You don't have a laptop with you because you're traveling light, and the iPad refuses to activate over wifi. iPhone battery is low. Now what? Or worse, the phone bricks too because it's the same version of iOS.

I'm thinking it's only prudent to have a separate hardware/firmware platform available.
Click to expand...

This is also the beauty of having ForeFlight on both my phone and my iPad. Instant backup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
wsuffa said:
This is my first time in 5 years, too, and there is no new software on the unit since the last OS upgrade.

Were it not a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity where it occurred, it would only bother me a bit, but given the unexpected nature of what happened, I become concerned with a mission-critical EFB. This wasn't FF failing, this was the iPad essentially bricked. The second I plugged it into iTunes when I got home, all was well.

And, yes, I'd done a full simulation before the trip, including the cold boot of the iPad.

The folks at the Apple Store here are far less than helpful (and frankly one of my objections of Apple is the inability to do anything other than take it to them, but that's not the issue here. The local folks had a problem with my request for a port adapter - it took an hour to get the manager to find it, even though it was in stock... But the folks at the store will help if you want a new $600 iDevice.

Android is cheap enough that I can toss it and get a new one.

In the end, the shoot was saved because I had the photo capture software on my two phones.

So I ask this: you're on a trip in the boonies with FF as your EFB and the iPad throws the "must be activated" message. You don't have a laptop with you because you're traveling light, and the iPad refuses to activate over wifi. iPhone battery is low. Now what? Or worse, the phone bricks too because it's the same version of iOS.

I'm thinking it's only prudent to have a separate hardware/firmware platform available.
Click to expand...

This is also the beauty of having ForeFlight on both my phone and my iPad. Instant backup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
gsengle said:
This is also the beauty of having ForeFlight on both my phone and my iPad. Instant backup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

gsengle said:
This is also the beauty of having ForeFlight on both my phone and my iPad. Instant backup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I can see you believe in redundancy. :)
 
wsuffa said:
So I ask this: you're on a trip in the boonies with FF as your EFB and the iPad throws the "must be activated" message. You don't have a laptop with you because you're traveling light, and the iPad refuses to activate over wifi. iPhone battery is low. Now what? Or worse, the phone bricks too because it's the same version of iOS.

I'm thinking it's only prudent to have a separate hardware/firmware platform available.
Click to expand...
In my case, I have an Android tablet as backup and, although I'd prefer not to use it, my phone.

But even without it I'm not that concerned. I am flying with certified GPS equipment which, while it does not contain terminal charts, contains a full database of procedures, frequencies, airport information, etc. Ultimately, I have a radio to call for an assist. That's a lot of backup. And a lot of things that all need to fail before I'd have an inability to navigate just because I lost my charts.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
How does that work? I wasn't even aware that was a possibility. I'd sure love to do club-wide document sharing through FF.
Click to expand...

Do you offer group pricing?
Yes - we offer group pricing for our Business Pro plan when ordering a subscription for five or more pilots. Perfect for flight departments and enterprises. View the plans page for businesses to place an order. The price breaks display automatically in your cart on check out. If you have any questions about our Business plans, please send us an email at sales@foreflight.com.
 
Last edited:
Foreflight, I've tried other software and really nothing comes close
 
Clip4 said:
Do you offer group pricing?
Yes - we offer group pricing for our Business Pro plan when ordering a subscription for five or more pilots. Perfect for flight departments and enterprises. View the plans page for businesses to place an order. The price breaks display automatically in your cart on check out. If you have any questions about our Business plans, please send us an email at sales@foreflight.com.
Click to expand...
@texasag93 ... look again kemosabe ;)
 
midlifeflyer said:
But even without it I'm not that concerned. I am flying with certified GPS equipment which, while it does not contain terminal charts, contains a full database of procedures, frequencies, airport information, etc. Ultimately, I have a radio to call for an assist. That's a lot of backup. And a lot of things that all need to fail before I'd have an inability to navigate just because I lost my charts.
Click to expand...
Ditto - though with one caveat. My panel-mounted avionics draw so much current that I rarely see over 13.6V on the bus in flight. I do not have a backup alternator and to my understanding there is not one available for my bird. Total electrical failure in IMC followed by "must be activated" from the iPad would have me fairly quickly relying on my iPhone for navigation - not a very appealing thought. :(
 
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