ForeFlight market penetration

Do you fly with a tablet EFB? What device and what app is your primary EFB?

  • iPad with ForeFlight

  • iPad with Garmin Pilot

  • iPad with WingX

  • iPad with another app

  • Android with Garmin Pilot

  • Android with WingX

  • Android with Avare

  • Android with another app

  • Other portable electronic device

  • I'm still using paper charts and no gadgets

Results are only viewable after voting.
flyingcheesehead said:
We wanted to make sure that whatever we chose worked with as many pilots' setups as possible. Garmin gear only talks to Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight. Stratus only talks to ForeFlight, period. We had pretty much narrowed it down to the Stratus ESi, Garmin 335 (with Stratus or GDL39/3D), or Garmin 345.

It turned out that in spite of the high percentage of ForeFlight users, we decided to go with the GTX 345 (which works with both ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot). Some of the discounts we were able to get put the price difference between it and the others at around $1100, so it just made more sense to go with the panel-mount in/out solution, which we'll hook to the GNS 430W and possibly even a FlightStream 210 for flight plan transfer.
Click to expand...

Wow! That is pretty much what I have been thinking as I have the same equipment. Just can't convince myself to pull the trigger for $4000 worth of equipment when I have a working transponder, and use Stratus for In. Thinking I will wait to see what comes out in 2018 that will make use of my existing transponder, keeping my Stratus for in.
 
I use FltPlan Go on a Microsoft Surface Pro 4 with a Stratux for ADS-B traffic/weather.
The app is free, and the Stratux was around $100 in parts.
The Surface Pro is also my business computer, so I'll use it in-flight, then take it to meetings, etc.
It's a little big for the cockpit, but with a yoke-mount on the passenger side, it works well.
 
Will ForeFlight work on Amazon fire tablet?
 
AggieMike88 said:
@texasag93 ... look again kemosabe ;)
Click to expand...

BUSINESS plan is what they offer.

I brought it up last year and the way it was set up, it could only run on a certain number of devices. I run it on 4 devices myself. Businesses set up employees and give them parameters. One ipad and one iphone per license.

Try that with our club and someone will get locked out when they are trying to use it.

I would go over like a turd in a punch bowl, Tonto.
 
GLMS_NC said:
Ditto. I have FF now but when my subscription renews I am done. There are cheaper solutions and the competition continues to intensify.
Click to expand...
I have absolutely no stake in anything, but my experience with the customer service at FltPlan has been the best of any company I've ever dealt with...ever.
I have asked stupid questions about "how to do this or that", and they always respond with clear explanations within an hour, even on Sunday.
This just blows me away, and I can't imagine how they do this when it's 100% free.
But I'm grateful and very happy with both their flight planning (online) and app.
Plus they are the only company I know that supports iOS, Android, AND Windows 10.
I'd say it's worth a look.
 
Rcmutz said:
Wow! That is pretty much what I have been thinking as I have the same equipment. Just can't convince myself to pull the trigger for $4000 worth of equipment when I have a working transponder, and use Stratus for In. Thinking I will wait to see what comes out in 2018 that will make use of my existing transponder, keeping my Stratus for in.
Click to expand...

I think you won't see much new coming out in 2018. We're to the point where a significant portion of the fleet has been done, there's a ton of different devices on the market, and not a lot of time left to try to make back R&D money. When I went to a seminar a couple weeks ago, Garmin specifically said, regarding ADS-B, "This is it - All our cards are on the table."

Based on your description above, you should check out the GDL 82 from Garmin. It uses your existing transponder, costs $1800, and should be very easy to install - It gets placed near your transponder antenna, goes inline between the existing transponder and antenna and uses both, and just needs a GPS antenna installed nearby.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I think you won't see much new coming out in 2018. We're to the point where a significant portion of the fleet has been done, there's a ton of different devices on the market, and not a lot of time left to try to make back R&D money. When I went to a seminar a couple weeks ago, Garmin specifically said, regarding ADS-B, "This is it - All our cards are on the table."

Based on your description above, you should check out the GDL 82 from Garmin. It uses your existing transponder, costs $1800, and should be very easy to install - It gets placed near your transponder antenna, goes inline between the existing transponder and antenna and uses both, and just needs a GPS antenna installed nearby.
Click to expand...
Maybe check out more Stratus products from Appareo?
If you already have a WAAS GPS for navigation, with ADS-B rebate, you can get a new transponder solution for $1995.
If you want built-in WAAS to connect to your glass panel, they have one (with rebate) for $2495.
Both will accept your Stratus 2i as input.

http://www.appareo.com/stratus-adsb-out/
 
azure said:
Ditto - though with one caveat. My panel-mounted avionics draw so much current that I rarely see over 13.6V on the bus in flight. I do not have a backup alternator and to my understanding there is not one available for my bird. Total electrical failure in IMC followed by "must be activated" from the iPad would have me fairly quickly relying on my iPhone for navigation - not a very appealing thought. :(
Click to expand...
Definitely! :eek:

But then, you'd be looking at one of those multi-point failures. (1) Total electrical failure and (2) iPad failure and (3) in IMC covering a wide area both horizontally and vertically rather than where you know you can climb or descent or make a turn and in a short time be in visual conditions. And in that case, to complete the picture, might as well add (4) it's the app not the iPad so the phone doesn't work either :eek: :eek:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I think you won't see much new coming out in 2018. We're to the point where a significant portion of the fleet has been done, there's a ton of different devices on the market, and not a lot of time left to try to make back R&D money. When I went to a seminar a couple weeks ago, Garmin specifically said, regarding ADS-B, "This is it - All our cards are on the table."

Based on your description above, you should check out the GDL 82 from Garmin. It uses your existing transponder, costs $1800, and should be very easy to install - It gets placed near your transponder antenna, goes inline between the existing transponder and antenna and uses both, and just needs a GPS antenna installed nearby.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

I think you are correct. It is getting late in the game to be introducing a new product, especially since it is virtually impossible to distinguish it as unique in any way from the plethora of alternatives out there already. After 01-01-2020 there isn't enough new production aircraft to support much more than Garmin + one or two others I suspect.
However, we may see the current suppliers start to cut prices as 01-01-2020 looms or passes if they are carrying inventory that does not get taken up.

Garmin has pretty well plugged the only hole in their lineup with the GDL-82.
IMG_0282.JPG
"If you like your transponder, you can keep your transponder"
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I did a few flights with iphone + FF recently. (did not see that as an option)
Click to expand...

I actually prefer the interface on the iphone for in-flight work. I carry both the iPhone and the iPad, but mainly use the iPhone and occasionally look up stuff on the ipad.
 
There wasn't an answer for "three different iPad apps" so I didn't vote.
 
Foreflight market penetration.

I was in Europe on vacation last Spring. I was checking out of a hotel near the Linate airport in Milan. There was a flight crew checking out headed for the airport. Out of shear curiosity I asked if they used Foreflight. They had never heard of it. I got out my IPad and showed them a little bit. They were blown away. I was too. I was amazed that Foreflight has not saturated Europe.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Foreflight market penetration.

I was in Europe on vacation last Spring. I was checking out of a hotel near the Linate airport in Milan. There was a flight crew checking out headed for the airport. Out of shear curiosity I asked if they used Foreflight. They had never heard of it. I got out my IPad and showed them a little bit. They were blown away. I was too. I was amazed that Foreflight has not saturated Europe.
Click to expand...
Likely due to their big time use of Jepp charts, which at the time of your story, wasn't offered in FF. Now that it is, I suspect more FF market penetration overseas.

Hmmmm wonder if I could apply for the FF Aussie support team....
 
MBDiagMan said:
Foreflight market penetration.

I was in Europe on vacation last Spring. I was checking out of a hotel near the Linate airport in Milan. There was a flight crew checking out headed for the airport. Out of shear curiosity I asked if they used Foreflight. They had never heard of it. I got out my IPad and showed them a little bit. They were blown away. I was too. I was amazed that Foreflight has not saturated Europe.
Click to expand...

Was this a commercial airline crew?
My brother, who flies B787s, uses a company issued iPad for flight planning, but the software is proprietary and they are not allowed to either load, or use in flight, what the airline calls "non-secure" software such as FF.
 
GRG55 said:
Was this a commercial airline crew?
My brother, who flies B787s, uses a company issued iPad for flight planning, but the software is proprietary and they are not allowed to either load, or use in flight, what the airline calls "non-secure" software such as FF.
Click to expand...
What makes FF "non-secure"?
 
AggieMike88 said:
What makes FF "non-secure"?
Click to expand...

Ask the airline's IT department. :D

Probably has something to do with the fact it is not "their" software.
btw, the flight planning software my brother has to use is pretty crude compared to FF or FltPlan. But I am certain it is "highly secure". ;)
 
AggieMike88 said:
What makes FF "non-secure"?
Click to expand...

If they can't prove they have control of the content from end to end it's "insecure". They have to be able to answer in the affirmative that the correct charts were on board prior to flight.

So, IT says "We can only do that if we control the entire process", naturally.
 
GRG55 said:
Ask the airline's IT department. :D

Probably has something to do with the fact it is not "their" software.
btw, the flight planning software my brother has to use is pretty crude compared to FF or FltPlan. But I am certain it is "highly secure". ;)
Click to expand...

Because they actually need fewer not more features. Like geo referencing anything is a no no I'd think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I use WingX strictly because it is free. It definitely takes some getting use to. It definitely isn't as user friendly as Garmin or ForeFlight, but there is a nice WingX user guide PDF floating around on the web.
 
Gucci Pilot said:
I use WingX strictly because it is free. It definitely takes some getting use to. It definitely isn't as user friendly as Garmin or ForeFlight, but there is a nice WingX user guide PDF floating around on the web.
Click to expand...
User-friendliness is typically in the mind of the user. Hilton approached a similar app from a different angle, resulting in a different user flow. (I used to work for a vertical market software company; differences in our and our main competitor's product were due to this)

I'm noticing this particularly with IFlyGPS. This EFB started out as a dedicated hardware/software product competing with the Garmin 296-496 handhelds and expanded to tablets (iOS, Android, and now Windows). Virtually identical on all four platforms. They've done a fantastic job but some of the upsides and downsides appear to reflect its origins.
 
gsengle said:
Because they actually need fewer not more features. Like geo referencing anything is a no no I'd think.
Click to expand...

This is why there's the option to hide ownship above 30 knots... That was a requirement for commercial operations.

I see that this has changed to "Limited" mode, and it says "Limited mode will apply ownship display restrictions as described in AC 120-76C". The introduction to that AC states that it "contains guidance on the operational use of Electronic Flight Bags (EFBs)... for all operators conducting flight operations under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 121, 125, 135, or 91 subpart F and part 91 subpart K".
 
As to the market penetration of different flight planning tools among GA pilots Max Trescott recently had a podcast on the topic, he got hundreds/thousand of responses from all over the world (80% responses were from US), but what struck me that pilots were using so many different planning tools no one ever heard of (at least in the US). The only two EFB tools with serious popularity were ForeFlight at 46% and Garmin Pilot at 6%, the rest was split between dozens of other products.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
I have run GarminPilot and FltPlanGO on my Galaxy Tab S. Both worked just fine. I use FltPlanGo now because it's free and is perfectly fine for my VFR-only flying, although it would be fine for IFR stuff, too.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
In the process of deciding how to equip our last club plane with ADS-B, I recently did a survey of our members to see what they're flying with for an EFB.

Of the 30 members (100% of whom responded), 28 fly with iPads, and 27 of those 28 use ForeFlight as their primary EFB app, with the 28th using it as the backup to Garmin Pilot. (We also have one person using a Garmin portable GPS and one still using paper charts.)

90%!!! And that's 90% of all of the club's pilots, not just those with an iPad!

What do you all use?
Click to expand...

https://www.seattleavionics.com/FlyQEFB.aspx
 
I have FltPlanGo on my Ipad and it is free indeed, and quite OK, I am now doing 30-day free trial of both Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight since I am getting into IFR training but so far I must say I have been blown away by FF features and most likely will end up getting annual subscription, $100 a year is really next to nothing in comparison to my other flying expenses.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
I use FLYQ EFB as my primary and FLTPLAN GO as my backup both on my IPad. FLYQ's logic for me makes sense and is easy to find info/approaches by taps on the map. It and FltPlan interfaces with any adsb receiver. The fact that Garmin's 345 prevents useage with anything other than GP or Foreflight is a big turn off for me. FltPlan's free charts are great and include Canada. While not as intuitive as FLYQ, it was easy to adapt to as my primary while traveling through Canada.
 
FltPlan Go and an android tablet that has a GPS is a perfect and free EFB. You do have to put up with a few ads. But it's free.

I will say that Garmin threw me a curve. I just added ADS B IN and OUT to my plane and Garmin will not work with FltPlan Go so I cannot put traffic and weather on the tablet but then I use FltPlan Go for out of the cockpit work, for a second data source, and for fuel prices!
 
olasek said:
I have FltPlanGo on my Ipad and it is free indeed, and quite OK, I am now doing 30-day free trial of both Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight since I am getting into IFR training but so far I must say I have been blown away by FF features and most likely will end up getting annual subscription, $100 a year is really next to nothing in comparison to my other flying expenses.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...
Try WingX Pro before you decide.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I wouldn't make a switch for a reason like that. Glitches can happen with any tablet. If an Android option were available when I first got an EFB, I would have taken it, so I'm no Apple fan-boy. And I know there are good Android options out there. But I have not had a glitch like you describe in an iPad in the 7 years I have been using one. That's a pretty good record for stability.
Click to expand...

iPad = primary
iPhone = secondary;)
 
And keep in mind ForeFlight is only $100.00 if you fly in one geographical region . . . .
 
Been using the iPad with FF for a few years. My only issue is the iPad turns itself off if it gets too hot, i.e. if the sun hit it. This whole "FF is overpriced" thing is nearly mind boggling. If you can't afford a hundred bucks a year for nearly unparalleled situational awareness how on Earth are you affording an airplane?
 
I am affording an airplane because I am frugal! Okay, some may say cheap. I pump my own fuel to save $30.00 a tank, which if I am doing the math correct covers two months of hanger fees each year.

I would buy ForeFlight and an iPad in two seconds if I found value over the free FltPlan Go and a tablet that costs $300.00 less than the iPad. I need a local pilot to come over, show me the bells and whistles of ForeFlight. I'll buy the beer. I'm near KSRQ!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top