Foreflight is now Boeing

EdFred said:
I had a number of customers and suppliers acquired by a certain conglomerate. We watched all of their usages go down down down down and then poof, gone. The suppliers that got bought out turned into a giant **** show as well.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, I have worked with two companies that were bought by larger corporations looking to expand their footprint and market-share and we did pretty well with the transitions. In once situation they left us alone and gave us the support and cash we needed to grow and that we did well beyond their expectations. The other, adopting the "change is good' philosophy worked well form me and a few others... I am still working for the latter, and the first one is still around doing well...
 
I'm sure it depends on the company but when you try forcing an 80-20 philosophy into an industry that has a lot of specialization, it doesn't work. They've lost market share to non conglomerate owned competitors. Especially when they need to make shareholders happy.
 
murphey said:
If someone offered you & your employees $$$$ to buy your company, what would your answer be?
Click to expand...

Ultimately the goal for most tech companies it to grow forever and go public or get bought. Either way the owners want their payday.

Also, anyone want to buy a chart website, 0 income, will trade for a few shiny coins.
 
Ventucky Red said:
In once situation they left us alone and gave us the support and cash we needed to grow and that we did well beyond their expectations.
Click to expand...
That works well until there's a shortfall and then it's "we need to cut costs by consolidating" followed by culture changes.
 
Eric Stoltz said:
I bet this will be a good thing for the Jepp side. We use Jepp's FlightDeck Pro at work. A fine product, indeed. However, there are some great features on FF that I'd like to see in FDP. I look foreword to the FDP's UI upgrades. Not that I don't like it, but there is some stuff that is not possible on FDP, that is natural on all the other EFBs. (I'm sure there are some FAA regs that dictate the software architecture) Time will tell. And, I'm sure competition will help all the EFBs.

I'm a Garmin Pilot user in the TealDeal with a Jepp sub, and I think that is slicker than snot. I'd buy FDP for use in the Sierra if it worked like GP. I think that is the point of this little get together.
Click to expand...

Even the new version of FDP blows. It have a personal folder on my work iPad with wingx in it.
 
unsafervguy said:
Even the new version of FDP blows. It have a personal folder on my work iPad with wingx in it.
Click to expand...

FD Pro X is a HUGE improvement over the previous versions. Still not perfect, but way, way better than FDP was.
 
I've heard they are going to re-brand it as Boeing Flight.

Everyone will shorten that to BF. Which is how the users will feel when the subscription fees rise even faster than before to pay off the acquisition costs.

The only upside is that FF will mean Flight Following to everyone.
 
I'm just glad I threw my lot in with FlyQ.

I had actually downloaded FF a few years prior to FlyQ, but I was overseas at the time. It did me no good. When I got back to the US, I tried to use it, but the trial period ended, so I would have had to pay ~$100 to try it and see if I liked it. Wasn't worth the effort to me. Haven't regretted the decision.
 
I am a GP user, however I've been considering trying Foreflight again since everyone says it's great. It wasn't very easy to use for me the last time I played with it.

However, having bought and attempted to cancel a subscription for Jepp charts in Garmin pilot, I just hope FF doesn't use Jepp's ecommerce engine. I still don't know how to get them to stop billing me.
 
Wow, everybody. Take a breath. Nothing is going to change in the short term.

Brad Z said:
Wow. ForeFlight has 180 employees?
Click to expand...

That kinda surprised me too, but when you think about their three offices, all the developers, all the support people, the new European folks, the fact that they've been doing military stuff for a while, etc it's not THAT surprising.

I used to like ForeFlight because it wasn't Jeppsen/Garmin/etc. But I guess if I were the founders of ForeFlight I'd probably want to cash out at some point.
Click to expand...

TBH, I was a bit afraid that various actions by Garmin or Apple could still bring them down. It would be stupid for them not to take the money and the stability that goes with it, but they're not "cashing out" - Both Tyson and Jason are relatively young and very passionate about their product, and they're not leaving.

I remember the heady early days of ForeFlight when every few months new goodies were showing up at no additional cost. Good while it lasted, but that could only go on for so long.
Click to expand...

There's still a new version with new features being released every month or two. It's just that the features aren't things that everyone will use. "Breadcrumbs" is kind of cool, seeing your flight path while you're still in flight, for example. There's more new stuff on the way all the time, it's just maybe not as obvious and cool as rubber-banding your flight path was back in the day.
 
EdFred said:
I'm wondering if @flyingcheesehead has ordered all his Boeing swag already. :rofl:
Click to expand...

Hah! I've actually had more Boeing swag in the past than I ever had ForeFlight swag... The only ForeFlight thing I think I've ever had is my ForeFlight Beta Team jacket. I bought a carbon fiber business card holder from Boeing, and I got their free USB-adapter-thingie at Oshkosh a couple years ago (the one with USB-A, Micro USB, Mini USB, Lightning, etc connectors all on one device).
 
Seattle Avionics (FlyQ) didn't waste any time in pouncing on this news: "As you may have heard, Boeing just purchased ForeFlight. You may remember that Boeing also purchased Jepp about 20 years ago. That had the expected effect of stopping Jepp's innovation, increasing prices, and shifting their focus away from General Aviation. Will this happen to ForeFlight? Only time will tell for certain but the past is a very good predictor of the future...I would suggest that this is a great time to switch from ForeFight to FlyQ"
 
Just read this on another aviation related thread:
____________________________________________
Hi XXXX,

Grant here - Thank you for flying with ForeFlight.

We understand your concerns. However, GA pilots have been the foundation of our business since day 1, and we're still fully committed to making your flying safer and more enjoyable.

You can read this AOPA article with our co-founder Tyson Weihs for more information: [AOPA Article](https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...res-foreflight)

Let us know if you have any questions. We're happy to help!

Grant
Pilot Support Team
team@foreflight.com
www.foreflight.com
____________________________________________

I love the part about their commitment to making flying safer. What a load of hooey. The people I won't fly with are the ones who get all hinky about setting up the cords suction cups to have their video game all ready to play.

Enjoyable? Maybe. Safer? Look out the friggin' window.
 
James331 said:
Not sure, I mean they are already so very much more than everyone else, and Boeing ain’t stupid, I’d imagine if their prices go much north they will see a fall off of users to the numerous other MUCH lower priced EFBs, foreflight is slick, but slick does have a max value people will pay when all the others EFBs offer more or less the same functions for less $$
Click to expand...

Boeing will charge what the market will bear. Small GA is a pimple to them - bread and butter are the corporate and airlines. If the profitability of the GA side is too low, they'll put the resources into stuff that makes them more money. For GA pricing, if they decide to drop the Federal charts and force people to Jepp charts, it WILL cost more, a lot more. Look at databases for GA GPS units.

flyingron said:
No, what I predict is a large departure of talented employees for other jobs. I don't know any small company that got acquired by Boeing whose employees were happy about it in the long run.
Click to expand...

Not just Boeing, but many big aerospace and defense companies (and many other types of company, too). Hear the story of how KEYW corporation came about. Or ArgonST (now owned by Boeing).

Kenny Phillips said:
That's a middling offer. I would take 10x for my company, right now, as I'm in retirement mode. But cashing in on one's work is certainly not "selling out".
Click to expand...

Depends on the industry. 5x Revenue might be OK in many industries, 10x Revenue is a stretch for most (except high growth), 2x revenue is not uncommon in parts of the defense space. Many industries look at cash flow or EBITDA - 10x cash-flow or EBITDA might fit for certain entertainment companies. And then one needs to decide whether it's LTM (trailing) or projected revenue/cash-flow/ebitda. And then evaluate the impact on the overall revenue/expense picture after the deal closes (and if it's a "buyout firm", that may well indicate cuts in headcount or more outsourcing). It's not so simple....

Palmpilot said:
Does anyone have specific examples of Jeppesen's products or service going downhill after Boeing bought them?

As for prices, I don't remember increases after the acquisition, but maybe I wasn't paying attention. :dunno:

(Not arguing, by the way; I'm just trying to figure out whether I'm going to need to look at alternatives.)
Click to expand...

I think you have a little time. Jepp (Boeing) has made a number of changes and dropped support for a number of things along the way. Some of that dealt with the GPS update equipment, data protection, and dropping support for certain units. It could go well, or not. Take a look at how Lastpass degraded after it was acquired by LogMeIn. Or what happened to weather underground after it was acquired by Weather Channel and then IBM - IBM's goal is to serve big customers so they really care little about the consumer. History is littered with stories.

flyingcheesehead said:
Wow, everybody. Take a breath. Nothing is going to change in the short term.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but I've heard that before. I have done a lot of M&A in my time, and that line gets trotted out all the time - but things usually change. I would expect as long as the lockup/retention agreements last that things will probably be OK.... BUT every time I've seen a deal like this happen, the entrepreneurial types can't wait to go out. It's happened on some deals I've done (I call it "big fish/small pond now is small fish/big pond), and I've seen it happen on others.

Heck, I mentioned KEYW before - their prior company got bought by (big defense contractor) and within 2 years something like 30-40% of the staff had left.... and gone to work for the folks the founded the prior company.
 
Ravioli said:
Just read this on another aviation related thread:
____________________________________________
Hi XXXX,

Grant here - Thank you for flying with ForeFlight.

We understand your concerns. However, GA pilots have been the foundation of our business since day 1, and we're still fully committed to making your flying safer and more enjoyable.

You can read this AOPA article with our co-founder Tyson Weihs for more information: [AOPA Article](https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...res-foreflight)

Let us know if you have any questions. We're happy to help!

Grant
Pilot Support Team
team@foreflight.com
www.foreflight.com
____________________________________________

I love the part about their commitment to making flying safer. What a load of hooey. The people I won't fly with are the ones who get all hinky about setting up the cords suction cups to have their video game all ready to play.

Enjoyable? Maybe. Safer? Look out the friggin' window.
Click to expand...
Here's my take, given past experience: Grant and the folks that say "GA have been the foundation" may truly believe that. But they have a new corporate overlord who has a different idea. They sold the company, they lost control (and to be clear, if they took any VC money, they sold the company when they took that money...).
 
wsuffa said:
Boeing will charge what the market will bear. Small GA is a pimple to them - bread and butter are the corporate and airlines. If the profitability of the GA side is too low, they'll put the resources into stuff that makes them more money. For GA pricing, if they decide to drop the Federal charts and force people to Jepp charts, it WILL cost more, a lot more. Look at databases for GA GPS units.
Click to expand...

If they want more corporate/airline customers, they need to drop the price. Foreflight is more expensive than Jeppesen.
My previous shop went Jepp because Foreflight was more expensive, by a very large margin.
 
mtuomi said:
If they want more corporate/airline customers, they need to drop the price. Foreflight is more expensive than Jeppesen.
My previous shop went Jepp because Foreflight was more expensive, by a very large margin.
Click to expand...

Yabut... Jeppesen is ForeFlight now.

wsuffa said:
Perhaps, but I've heard that before. I have done a lot of M&A in my time, and that line gets trotted out all the time - but things usually change. I would expect as long as the lockup/retention agreements last that things will probably be OK.... BUT every time I've seen a deal like this happen, the entrepreneurial types can't wait to go out. It's happened on some deals I've done (I call it "big fish/small pond now is small fish/big pond), and I've seen it happen on others.
Click to expand...

But change happens even without M&A. It's just different, and not always better (or worse).
 
Challenged said:
Seattle Avionics (FlyQ) didn't waste any time in pouncing on this news: "As you may have heard, Boeing just purchased ForeFlight. You may remember that Boeing also purchased Jepp about 20 years ago. That had the expected effect of stopping Jepp's innovation, increasing prices, and shifting their focus away from General Aviation. Will this happen to ForeFlight? Only time will tell for certain but the past is a very good predictor of the future...I would suggest that this is a great time to switch from ForeFight to FlyQ"
Click to expand...

Pretty bush league to take a shot like that... If they want to capture some of the market share from the Big B Overlord... what they should be doing is offer a pro-rated subscription to use while your Forflight runs out...
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Wow, everybody. Take a breath. Nothing is going to change in the short term.
Click to expand...

Of course not. That is always the message to the peons and customers. But as soon as "short term" ends, things more often than not go down the tubes. Have you ever been part of a startup/small company bought by a large behemoth?
 
Ravioli said:
I love the part about their commitment to making flying safer. What a load of hooey.

Enjoyable? Maybe. Safer? Look out the friggin' window.
Click to expand...

Complete rubbish. This might just barely apply to pilots whose most adventurous trip is 40nm for breakfast at the weekend. For anyone who actually flies to go places, the ease of access to information that the new apps/devices give mean a huge improvement to capability and safety.
 
I was told each new 777X will come with an iPad and a one year subscription to ForeFlight Pro....probably move a few...
 
atbroome said:
Of course not. That is always the message to the peons and customers. But as soon as "short term" ends, things more often than not go down the tubes. Have you ever been part of a startup/small company bought by a large behemoth?
Click to expand...

Yes, but again, there's no reason to toss it yet, nor freak out like people are doing. Change is constant, and ForeFlight could have gone down the tubes without Boeing as well.

Frankly, if I were an Android person, this would be exciting to me. Boeing has the resources to triple the size of the development team to enable an Android version, and they have good reason to not be beholden to Apple. If you wanted an Android version, I would think that the chances now are WAY better than they were before...
 
Ventucky Red said:
Pretty bush league to take a shot like that... If they want to capture some of the market share from the Big B Overlord... what they should be doing is offer a pro-rated subscription to use while your Forflight runs out...
Click to expand...

I believe they're charging $39 for the folks that switch. $39 for the first year is one hell of a pro-rate.
 
It’s definitely a matter of what you use the plane for. I spend the bulk of my time flying cross country to visit my clients. My average flight is probably 3 hours each way. The ease of flight and fuel planning coupled with having access to weather at my destination is definitely a convenience factor for me. However in hard IMC (particularly at night), a moving map on the approach plate adds a level of redundancy (and I would argue safety) that for me is worth whatever it costs. I can hand fly an approach to the minimums using a paper plate. But for single pilot IMC, I use Foreflight to add that extra level of safety. I carry a spare iPad that has the same capabilities as my main one, and can run it on my phone if I have to. On the very rare occasions that I am flying VFR, ForeFlight just becomes an enhanced sectional. I don’t have to worry about it being out of date, or folding/unfolding it. If I only flew VFR, then I probably woudn’t spend the money on the top subscription for Foreflight. But I would never go back to a paper sectional either.

Does ADS-B add a safety factor. Maybe. I believe the inflight weather access is a plus for long cross countries. Having traffic in VFR might be beneficial in high traffic areas, but I do agree with heads up and eyes outside the plane. It is virtually useless in IMC (unless you happen to be sharing a cloud with that idiot fake cop). However I can’t count the amount of times I have dropped into marginal VFR still in and out of the clouds with Chicago Approach warning me of VFR traffic at my 12:00 o’clock over the Joliet VOR, altitude unverified. Knowing where that traffic is (right in front of me) what altitude it is at (somehow always at my altitude), and what they seem to be doing (circling the VOR) gives me time to come up with a plan if I need it. The controller is almost always handling a stream of traffic into Midway, and may or may not give me vectors around the traffic. To me that information is a definite plus in the safety colum.
 
EdFred said:
I'm using TrueFlight in the panel and Avare on my tablet.
Click to expand...
Was going to mention Avare. Was out of GA since 96 and got back in last Sept. been using Avare on old free android tablet,. Just vfr but wow has navigation changed.
 
Darter 100 said:
Was going to mention Avare. Was out of GA since 96 and got back in last Sept. been using Avare on old free android tablet,. Just vfr but wow has navigation changed.
Click to expand...
Not to steel the thread But does my k76 transponder go to trash like the old loran ?
 
wsuffa said:
Boeing will charge what the market will bear. Small GA is a pimple to them - bread and butter are the corporate and airlines. If the profitability of the GA side is too low, they'll put the resources into stuff that makes them more money. For GA pricing, if they decide to drop the Federal charts and force people to Jepp charts, it WILL cost more, a lot more. Look at databases for GA GPS units.



Not just Boeing, but many big aerospace and defense companies (and many other types of company, too). Hear the story of how KEYW corporation came about. Or ArgonST (now owned by Boeing).



Depends on the industry. 5x Revenue might be OK in many industries, 10x Revenue is a stretch for most (except high growth), 2x revenue is not uncommon in parts of the defense space. Many industries look at cash flow or EBITDA - 10x cash-flow or EBITDA might fit for certain entertainment companies. And then one needs to decide whether it's LTM (trailing) or projected revenue/cash-flow/ebitda. And then evaluate the impact on the overall revenue/expense picture after the deal closes (and if it's a "buyout firm", that may well indicate cuts in headcount or more outsourcing). It's not so simple....



I think you have a little time. Jepp (Boeing) has made a number of changes and dropped support for a number of things along the way. Some of that dealt with the GPS update equipment, data protection, and dropping support for certain units. It could go well, or not. Take a look at how Lastpass degraded after it was acquired by LogMeIn. Or what happened to weather underground after it was acquired by Weather Channel and then IBM - IBM's goal is to serve big customers so they really care little about the consumer. History is littered with stories.



Perhaps, but I've heard that before. I have done a lot of M&A in my time, and that line gets trotted out all the time - but things usually change. I would expect as long as the lockup/retention agreements last that things will probably be OK.... BUT every time I've seen a deal like this happen, the entrepreneurial types can't wait to go out. It's happened on some deals I've done (I call it "big fish/small pond now is small fish/big pond), and I've seen it happen on others.

Heck, I mentioned KEYW before - their prior company got bought by (big defense contractor) and within 2 years something like 30-40% of the staff had left.... and gone to work for the folks the founded the prior company.
Click to expand...
So THAT'S why Weather Underground got worse, pushy, and added a bunch of "features" nobody wanted. I didn't know any of that, but it all makes sense now.
 
It's like when our local brewery sold out to Anheuser-Busch. We were nervous and of course the first thing AB did was kill the brew pub (a darling of the original owner).
 
EdFred said:
Not sure I could do it for that. Got employees I actually look out for.
Click to expand...

If you lookout for them, give the key people a piece of the pie. I worked for two companies that were bought and I had options both times. The buyer will do nothing for them. If they get anything it will be because they had a piece when it was purchased or at IPO.
 
Anymouse said:
I believe they're charging $39 for the folks that switch. $39 for the first year is one hell of a pro-rate.
Click to expand...

Any more info on that? My foreflight sub is expiring soon and I’d consider switching with that deal.
 
Somedudeintn said:
Any more info on that? My foreflight sub is expiring soon and I’d consider switching with that deal.
Click to expand...

This was posted by someone on the Purple Board...

Howdy!

As you may have heard, Boeing just purchased ForeFlight. You may remember that Boeing also purchased Jepp about 20 years ago. That had the expected effect of stopping Jepp's innovation, increasing prices, and shifting their focus away from General Aviation. Will this happen to ForeFlight? Only time will tell for certain but the past is a very good predictor of the future.

I'm biased, of course, but I would suggest that this is a great time to switch from ForeFight to FlyQ. FlyQ is consistently higher rated in the App Store, easier to use, less expensive, and laser-focussed on GA. To encourage you, we're offering an upgrade from ForeFlight for just $39 so you can see how easy and powerful it is. Click to buy. That's $100 off our usual price for our full IFR + VFR package.
Please forward this to your friends, post to Facebook, Twitter, and all the pilot forums you visit.

Questions? 425.806.0249 or email sales@seattleavionics.com
www.seattleavionics.com

Sincerely,

Steve Podradchik
CEO, Seattle Avionics
stevep@seattleavionics.com
Click to expand...
 
Somedudeintn said:
Any more info on that? My foreflight sub is expiring soon and I’d consider switching with that deal.
Click to expand...

FlyQ has several offers at various times. A couple groups here got together and did the buddy pak, which is a 3 person lifetime subscription for 900, or 300 each. I think it was their Black Friday deal..
I'd recommend calling them, getting on their website and/or mailing list and see what comes up. They (so far) have been quick to respond, and super friendly/accommodating.
I have very little FF experience so I can't really provide much of a comparison, just my thoughts of FlyQ.

One thing for consideration is that FlyQ works with several GPS/ADS-B units,
However, from their site: FlyQ EFB will work with a Stratus 1 or Stratus 2 receiver providing it's using Stratus firmware version 1.x (2.0 is not supported)
So if you're moving from FF with a Stratus, it may require a new unit. But you could always sell the stratus to offset that cost I guess.

http://seattleavionics.com/SupportedADSB.aspx
Another consideration is that they currently have no W&B feature built in. I have been assured by them that it is coming...yet it does seem to be taking a while. So far, I haven't found it to be an urgent feature, as there are other apps, spreadsheets, etc., but I fly much less than many here.

Overall I'm very satisfied with it, and hopefully they won't raise prices, but that shouldn't matter for those of us with a lifetime subscription.
They seem to work hard on it to keep it growing.
 
Last edited:
Ravioli said:
Just read this on another aviation related thread:
____________________________________________
Hi XXXX,

Grant here - Thank you for flying with ForeFlight.

We understand your concerns. However, GA pilots have been the foundation of our business since day 1, and we're still fully committed to making your flying safer and more enjoyable.

You can read this AOPA article with our co-founder Tyson Weihs for more information: [AOPA Article](https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...res-foreflight)

Let us know if you have any questions. We're happy to help!

Grant
Pilot Support Team
team@foreflight.com
www.foreflight.com
____________________________________________

I love the part about their commitment to making flying safer. What a load of hooey. The people I won't fly with are the ones who get all hinky about setting up the cords suction cups to have their video game all ready to play.

Enjoyable? Maybe. Safer? Look out the friggin' window.
Click to expand...


You're known to the ForeFlight people as "Quadruple Ecks?" That's freakin' AWESOME!!!!! On the other hand, if your name is really "Four Hugs" I'm not so sure how cool that is.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top