ForeFlight 8

AggieMike88 said:
What you desire is coming soon.... I am guessing that once we see FF8 in the app store, the web version will also have the features promised in this morning's announcement.
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The demo video shows it working on the web.

EminiTrader said:
I hope they speed up plan.foreflight.com - that seems to have been on the back-burner for many months now. It's really not usable for flight planning. Decided to play with it some tonight and no dice.. still dicey :)
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This. And a real printable flight log for when the iPad craps out. Eventually. Hopefully. Maybe.
 
Like I thought. Sort of Coke vs Pepsi and Chevy vs Ford;)

(For the record, Pepsi and Ford for me.)

Cheers
 
As someone who flies about 150 hours a year, VFR and IFR, often to Canada or the Bahamas, I'm willing to spend money for the right tool. I've used fltplan go and found it not very user friendly. It's also one of those "if the product is free, you are the product" things. I'm a CFI and have the option of downloading WingX for free. Haven't done it; I'm really happy with Foreflight, and wasn't impressed enough with WingX to make the switch. Admittedly, I've never tried Garmin's product, but as long as FF keeps improving their product, I don't foresee having a good reason to switch.
 
So funny. We have the most expensive hobby / profession and people complain about the cost of a yearly subscription for software that makes flying easier, gives situational awareness, is backed by solid support, etc. Jesus. It's the cost of an hour of a rental.

The new economy. Everyone wants software for free.

I have Garmin and ForeFlight. Not like that breaks the bank. It's cheaper than a cross country and I can use it *all the time* for planning etc.

Just blows my mind. Carry on.
 
denverpilot said:
The demo video shows it working on the web.



This. And a real printable flight log for when the iPad craps out. Eventually. Hopefully. Maybe.
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You need a flight log for "direct to?"
 
:sigh: Great, one month after I upgrade to the terrain version they come out with something new.
 
I remember the days of trying to keep costs to a minimum ... with paper charts. Subscribed to a guy who published a binder of IFR charts once a year, with monthly updates that were sent as an addendum about once a month, to keep them "legal". That alone cost around $240 a year, back in the mid-2000s. So for me, until FF hits that price target, it is still, by far, the bargain of the century in aviation.

Now... if you want just VFR charts, you can just download the files from the FAA for free and load them on your tablet. Not sure about IFR. And I believe it is a misnomer (even though FF themselves are using this term) to call the charts in FF "scanned", as they are sourced from the same TIF files freely available online.
 
wayne said:
Dang. You can get a 3 year subscription for WingX for $199.

I don't work for them, just a happy customer. :D
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I tested both Foreflight and Wing X and did a test for about 36 hours. there is just no comparision. Foreflight "runs circles" around WingsX. its not even a close match:)
 
I hope what he was showing wasn't what we'll be seeing for VFR sectionals. There's a lot less information in that view than what I get now that I'd rather have than smoother scrolling.
 
This is the great thing about a free market. Some people like FF while others like WingX or Garmin or Fltplan Go and all of these companies continue to improve their products in the way that they and their current customers like, apply the pricing or advertising costs that are in line with what they believe to be the value of their product and we, the consumer, are free to choose. I wish the cable companies worked like this.
 
cowman said:
I hope what he was showing wasn't what we'll be seeing for VFR sectionals. There's a lot less information in that view than what I get now that I'd rather have than smoother scrolling.
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Sectionals ARE NOT GOING AWAY! This is in addition to VFR sectionals.

Having airspace layers is a great thing. Consider aerial photography, where you have an address you're going to fly to to photograph. Now you can pull up a street map with the airspace overlaid and figure out if your going to need an airspace clearance.

As far as general VFR flying--you can customize the map as you consider necessary. At 5k in not too concerned about towers, but might want to see highways and rivers. If I'm /G I might not care about VORs or NDBs. And of course if you're a "track up" fan you don't have to worry about reading labels upside down.
 
classicrock said:
I tested both Foreflight and Wing X and did a test for about 36 hours. there is just no comparision. Foreflight "runs circles" around WingsX. its not even a close match:)
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Could you please describe the key differences that sold you?

I originally used ForeFlight and when my 1 year subscription was up I looked at WingX and changed. At that time WingX was the only one with a split screen and that was the key feature for me. I've got about a year left on WingX now (went for the 3 year) and am pretty happy with it. But I'm always willing to look at new stuff...
 
jsstevens said:
Could you please describe the key differences that sold you?

I originally used ForeFlight and when my 1 year subscription was up I looked at WingX and changed. At that time WingX was the only one with a split screen and that was the key feature for me. I've got about a year left on WingX now (went for the 3 year) and am pretty happy with it. But I'm always willing to look at new stuff...
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IMHO, the WingX user interface looks like an old Geocities webpage. It's horrible.
 
bradg33 said:
IMHO, the WingX user interface looks like an old Geocities webpage. It's horrible.
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Well, it seems to work just fine and I'm used to it so ugly isn't really a key feature to me...
 
bradg33 said:
IMHO, the WingX user interface looks like an old Geocities webpage. It's horrible.
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Geocities!!! lol :D


mirage00 said:
Garmin has had beautiful vector maps for years. FF is finally catching up.
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One reason why I've always loved Garmin Pilot over FF (I've used both), was their UI, and vector mapping. Now that FF is bringing it, I may have to reevaluate this. Competition is wonderful.
 
tawood said:
I'm wondering if the scanned sectionals would stay and remain an option, and the new maps would be an option too...like now in the current version 7 how the options include terrain and street maps.
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Yeah. I wouldn't like it if they did away with sectionals
 
I went with WingX largely as it was the first with ADS-B in data first. That let me get rid of my 396 and XM subscription. Because FF only works with Stratus I can't really use it without having to go buy another ADS-B receiver even though the one I have works perfectly well. They just set the price point for switching to high for me with that decision.

I have no issues with the UI on WingX. But, opinions vary.
 
wayne said:
I have no issues with the UI on WingX. But, opinions vary.
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Same here on WingX, have used FF, Garmin, FlyQ and WingX and now onto my second 3-year subscription for WingX, to me its more substance over style, FF is eye candy, nothing else.

What drove me from FF originally was they were very adamant about not letting Stratus display ADS-B traffic, but once other apps did and the market had spoken, suddenly ADS-B traffic was a good thing and they made a big song and dance about it, like they 'invented' it, same as their intro of SV, to read some of the reviews, you would think FF invented it.

If you are bewitched by eye candy, go for it.
 
MetalCloud said:
So funny. We have the most expensive hobby / profession and people complain about the cost of a yearly subscription for software that makes flying easier, gives situational awareness, is backed by solid support, etc. Jesus. It's the cost of an hour of a rental.

The new economy. Everyone wants software for free.

I have Garmin and ForeFlight. Not like that breaks the bank. It's cheaper than a cross country and I can use it *all the time* for planning etc.

Just blows my mind. Carry on.
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This. We have some seriously cheap ass pilots in our ranks! Amazing.
 
TheGolfPilot said:
Not to rain on your parade, but there is ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot on the top tier then everything else is below it. There is a reason Garmin is only working with ForeFlight and its own program.

Fltplan Go has a lot of features, and can even do a couple things the big software can't but it's like comparing Apple or Microsoft to Linux. It just isn't the same.

Don't take us down the "wedded to one particular tool" road bud. There is one person on this forum who rides fltplan go like it's the second coming.
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Remember that you're talking to mr anti-iPad. He'd rather we carry a plotter and pencil.
 
RudyP said:
This. We have some seriously cheap ass pilots in our ranks! Amazing.
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There is a difference in being cheap and buying services you do not need. If they raised the price of the functions I use now without including the logbook I wouldn't even blink. The fact that the price went up strictly because they added the logbook (I have paper and myflightbook) is the problem. I will still pay whatever they charge because I love it, but your statement is ridiculous. It would be like your lawn people raising the price because they are going to start spraying for pests too, but you already have a pest company you like.
 
Soldier64 said:
There is a difference in being cheap and buying services you do not need. If they raised the price of the functions I use now without including the logbook I wouldn't even blink. The fact that the price went up strictly because they added the logbook (I have paper and myflightbook) is the problem. I will still pay whatever they charge because I love it, but your statement is ridiculous. It would be like your lawn people raising the price because they are going to start spraying for pests too, but you already have a pest company you like.
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What exactly are they forcing you to buy? It has been pointed out above that you can pretty much build your own bundle based on the menu approach if you don't like their standard bundles.
 
RudyP said:
What exactly are they forcing you to buy? It has been pointed out above that you can pretty much build your own bundle based on the menu approach if you don't like their standard bundles.
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Have you actually tried to find this "bundle" menu?

That they said it was possible some 1.5 years ago doesn't mean it still exists, or even that it ever did.

The only options I see both in the app and on the website are heavily bundled and significantly more expensive than last year for extra functions I neither need nor want.
 
MAKG1 said:
Have you actually tried to find this "bundle" menu?

That they said it was possible some 1.5 years ago doesn't mean it still exists, or even that it ever did.

The only options I see both in the app and on the website are heavily bundled and significantly more expensive than last year for extra functions I neither need nor want.
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AggieMike88 said:
On their website (https://www.foreflight.com/pricing), there remains the option to "build your own plan". So if you don't want synth vision or logbook, you can opt out.


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Well, that's better. Still expensive, but no longer the most expensive. I can do without the W&B. JHC that's simple, not even nearly worth $15.

That's well short of "building your own bundle." Quite a lot of stuff is still forced. The hazard advisor is next to useless, for instance, unless you cruise at one specific altitude in a straight line for a whole flight -- and you never do when it's relevant. Cloud documents? Give me a break.

And there is no guarantee this is still around after the next release. The promise they made to "credit an upgrade" when they introduced the pro version never happened.
 
I am looking forward to playing with this at the end of the week in Oshkosh but I doubt it will get me up to that price point. Hell even the Basic Plus is kind of meh to me over the Basic. I am very interested in Aerovie though.
 
Got to play with it today. Not a ground breaking change, but an improvement.

My take is, don't like it, don't buy it, but don't sit and bash it. The price is piddly for the product you get, and this doesn't even take into account the(excellent) support from the team which you're not going to find with the other apps.
 
MetalCloud said:
So funny. We have the most expensive hobby / profession and people complain about the cost of a yearly subscription for software that makes flying easier, gives situational awareness, is backed by solid support, etc. Jesus. It's the cost of an hour of a rental.

The new economy. Everyone wants software for free.

I have Garmin and ForeFlight. Not like that breaks the bank. It's cheaper than a cross country and I can use it *all the time* for planning etc.

Just blows my mind. Carry on.
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That's true. Plus, I use Foreflight quite a bit even when I'm not flying... the weather products are better than anything I've found on the web for free, so I usually use their radar view when I'm planning outdoor activities here in Colorado in the summer afternoons (when we have a lot of pop-up thunderstorms).

Still, I think for many of us, the real resistance is to the idea of subscription services. More and more software packages are moving to a subscription style of use, and they tend to add up after a while. But, for an activity like flying, a Foreflight subscription still makes sense!
 
Coloradokevin said:
That's true. Plus, I use Foreflight quite a bit even when I'm not flying... the weather products are better than anything I've found on the web for free, so I usually use their radar view when I'm planning outdoor activities here in Colorado in the summer afternoons (when we have a lot of pop-up thunderstorms).

Still, I think for many of us, the real resistance is to the idea of subscription services. More and more software packages are moving to a subscription style of use, and they tend to add up after a while. But, for an activity like flying, a Foreflight subscription still makes sense!
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Agreed! I'm *always* on it. Just looking at charts, exploring, planning, playing. Yeah the Wx features rock. Plus, I just used to to file my first IFR flight plan. I received email confirmations that it went though, then another notification with expected route, etc. And it costs less than one hour of rental for a 182T.
 
Coloradokevin said:
Still, I think for many of us, the real resistance is to the idea of subscription services. More and more software packages are moving to a subscription style of use, and they tend to add up after a while. But, for an activity like flying, a Foreflight subscription still makes sense!
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No, the objection is being forced to buy more and more stuff.

When I bought my first subscription, it was $50. Then, they added Stratus support, and raised it to $75. I don't have a Stratus, so that's $25 for nothing. Then, they added the "IFR pro" crap and raised it to $150. The georeferenced plates are nice, but hardly essential, and not worth a $75 premium. The rest of it is not useful. Now, they add several other things I don't want like a trivial and buggy logbook available easily elsewhere and a nice but unnecessary weight and balance app, and it's $200.

You can't get the $50 version, despite what the "roll your own" claims say. With the georeferenced plates, it has MAYBE $100 of total value (but $75 is closer). But they won't give it to me for less than $150, and try to push $200.

So, they claim a "better" product and charge more. But it's actually just a more bloated product. The stuff that made Foreflight Foreflight was in the $50 version.

And they still don't have a timer on it. Several other apps do.

They have been getting greedy over the past few years. THAT'S the objection.
 
There's still a 75$ version (just renewed). Not sure what the problem is.

I'm instrument rated and the non referenced plates don't bother me, but I do have a glass panel...

Also, FF now seems to be working just fine with the Garmin GDL 3D (including weather, traffic, and AHRS)
 
MetalCloud said:
Agreed! I'm *always* on it. Just looking at charts, exploring, planning, playing. Yeah the Wx features rock. Plus, I just used to to file my first IFR flight plan. I received email confirmations that it went though, then another notification with expected route, etc. And it costs less than one hour of rental for a 182T.
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Something to keep in the back of your mental toolbox.

Every once in a rare while, your IFR flight plan fails to be accepted by the FAA system when filed through ForeFlight. However, since the plan was from ForeFlight, through Lockheed Martin Flight Service Center, there is a record of the transaction in the LockMart system.

If you then call 1-800-WX-BRIEF, and tell the briefer that you need assistance with a "failed" flight plan, they can find the transaction, review why it was kicked, make the change(s) required, and re-submit. Then advise if it was accepted.

This happened to me once or twice, and the FSS Briefer was very helpful. Within 5 minutes after ending the phone call, Clearance Delivery had the info and was asking if I was ready to copy.

And Make sure you've gone to the LockMart FSS website and created/updated your profile to have the mobile phone number you use. Once that's done, they use caller ID to populate much of the data fields such as your name, tail#, and more. Really speeds things up.
 
AggieMike88 said:
And Make sure you've gone to the LockMart FSS website and created/updated your profile to have the mobile phone number you use. Once that's done, they use caller ID to populate much of the data fields such as your name, tail#, and more. Really speeds things up.
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Sometimes I think I shouldn't be subscribed to a thread because it gets out of hand. Then a post like this comes up and I learn something really useful. Thanks.
 
AggieMike88 said:
And Make sure you've gone to the LockMart FSS website and created/updated your profile to have the mobile phone number you use. Once that's done, they use caller ID to populate much of the data fields such as your name, tail#, and more. Really speeds things up.
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I have tried to do that for a month now this time and a month the last time. I have a profile but it's busted somehow and won't let me do anything at all with it without it throwing an error to call their tech support. I've done that and had two ticket numbers now and they can't bother replying. On this latest one I told them to simply call me for authorization to blow the whole damned account away and I'll make a new one. Zero response in weeks. Again.
 
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