Fooling hobbs, logging full time

M

Messup

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I posted awhile back and now I’m back again.

Let me begin by stating that I really try to do what’s right, but in these uncertain economic conditions, saving money is crucial. Over the past few weeks I’ve been renting some airplanes from a local outfit and fooling the hobbs meter so to speak by turning off the master when I can do so in airspace that doesn’t permit radio or ADSB. My goal was to try and stretch my dollar as far as possible. Fly a few hours, get billed for part of it and log all of it.

Well, needless to say I got found out by our chief pilot who put two and two together in ways that I didn’t think would get caught. I admittedly messed up, yes, I really screwed the pooch. I have no problem saying so. My problem now, and what isn’t fair to me, is that the school is trying to get me to erase the time in my logbook that I logged and didn’t pay for even though in reality I actually flew what I logged. Is this legal to even ask for? If I legit flew the time, I should be able to log it. I told the school I would gladly pay for the discrepancy of time not billed for and I’m going to, but they’re kicking me out and not letting me rent from them any longer. They also said to expect a letter and call from the flight standards office but I don’t see that what I did was a rule violation so I don’t understand what the FAA can do. Be kind, but please advise how this will turn out and what I should do now?
 
I don’t know who would properly investigate fraud on a federal level for airplane stuff, so good luck.
 
Lol. I hope you're a troll. If not, I would expect to get a suspension at a minimum for turning off ADSB. Aviation is a small world, and doing something like this will likely follow you.
 
If the aircraft was equipped with ADS-B and you turned it off deliberately, that's a FAR violation and they can alert the FSDO.
They can sue you in small-claims court for the money you owe them.

They can't contest the entries in your logbook AFAIK.
 
On the one hand, you stole the time fair and square and you should get to keep it.

On the other hand, all the direct evidence says you didn't actually fly that time.

On the other hand, who knows if you just landed somewhere for a few hours and made up the story about turning off the master and then falsified your logbook.

On the other hand, you just confessed to fraud, theft, and violating 14 CFR § 91.225.

They say that if you can't do the time, don't do the crime, but I'm not sure how that applies in this case. It's more like if you didn't do the crime, you wouldn't have the time.
 
It's not likely the FBO you're stealing from but the aircraft owner who is unfortunate enough to have that leaseback.
 
This cannot possibly be a real post! Are you sure you did not mean to post this on the jokes/funny thread?
 
kath said:
If the aircraft was equipped with ADS-B and you turned it off deliberately, that's a FAR violation and they can alert the FSDO.

They can't contest the entries in your logbook AFAIK.
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And people ask me why I haven't bothered to pursue Basicmed and get back in to GA.
 
Messup said:
My problem now, and what isn’t fair to me, is that the school is trying to get me to erase the time in my logbook that I logged and didn’t pay for even though in reality I actually flew what I logged.
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Not fair? ROFLOL! Prove you flew that time in your logbook...
 
Doug Reid said:
For Pete's sake...stop feeding the trolls !
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Why?

The way I see it, I'm either enjoying a thread or I'm not. If I'm not, the solution is to ignore that thread. If I am enjoying it, I don't care whether the discussion is about a real event or not.
 
Messup said:
I told the school I would gladly pay for the discrepancy of time not billed for and I’m going to
Click to expand...

As long as this is future tense, and not already done you're a thief (and other unprintables) and I'd hope that the FBO ran with its as such with the police as a criminal complaint.

I doubt that the FAA has the bandwidth to chase the ADS-B violation.... today. I am not aware of any statute of limitations, so maybe they'll find the time in 20 years and burn you then -- after you'll have more to lose.

Sleep tight.
 
kath said:
...They can't contest the entries in your logbook AFAIK.
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but the FAA can. was this the OP's first foray into theft by deception or might there be deceptive entries in the OP's logbook. if the FBO/school does notify the FAA i would expect, at a minimum, a thorough review of the OP's log.
 
They can't make you erase time from your logbook, but they and the FAA can make your life miserable in many other ways. You might want to consider complying with their request anyway in hopes that they'll go easy on you.
 
You didn't mess up. At least not in the way you think you messed up.

You were purposely deceptive. You messed up when you didn't think whoever you rented the plane from wouldn't track flights via flight aware or crosscheck the Hobbs with the tach.

Stupid is as stupid does. That's all I have to say about that.
 
schmookeeg said:
I doubt that the FAA has the bandwidth to chase the ADS-B violation.... today. I am not aware of any statute of limitations, so maybe they'll find the time in 20 years and burn you then -- after you'll have more to lose.

Sleep tight.
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I would argue that they probably would, if the FBO rats the pilot out for a supposed 61.51 violation. Presuming they provide the inspector with aircraft flight records, it's trivial for the FAA to look at the aircraft ads-b data and see where (and where there wasn't) ads-b out data. Be sure to lie to them about not intentionally turning it off, so you can throw your ticket into the same incinerator as Martha.
 
Most Hobbs are not supplied through the master. They run via a fuse off the battery and through an oil pressure switch that closes once the engine starts. Turning off the master isn't supposed to have any effect on the Hobbs.

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Any operator that has it run off the master is asking for fraud.

If I was the owner of that FBO, I'd refuse to rent anything to the OP. Guy with an attitude like that will end up damaging the airplane by taking stupid chances. No respect for the property of others.
 
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Fraud like this, if done by enough thieves, causes the airplane to run well past scheduled inspections and AD compliance times. It also raises the costs for all the honest renters: more fuel and oil burned, more wear on components that then need replacing unusually "early."
 
Is this the same guy that didn't know he needed a certificate to work on airplanes...

Dan Thomas said:
Most Hobbs are not supplied through the master. They run via a fuse off the battery and through an oil pressure switch that closes once the engine starts.
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Thank you. I was wondering how far this would go before someone came up with how the Hobbs is powered.
 
schmookeeg said:
As long as this is future tense, and not already done you're a thief (and other unprintables) and I'd hope that the FBO ran with its as such with the police as a criminal complaint.

I doubt that the FAA has the bandwidth to chase the ADS-B violation.... today. I am not aware of any statute of limitations, so maybe they'll find the time in 20 years and burn you then -- after you'll have more to lose.

Sleep tight.
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I'm pretty sure that burning him would be considered cruel-and-unusual punishment!
 
I thought ALL Hobbs ran off the oil pressure switch. Maybe that's not true but because of that perception I suspected a troll at post #1. Are there some that use the master for power?
 
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