Flying to Sedona - NEVER?

CC268

CC268

Final Approach
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
5,532
Display Name
Display name:
CC268
So...during my Private Pilot Checkride the examiner talked a bit about Sedona. He stated that it had the highest accident rate in the country. I actually asked him, "So would you never fly to Sedona?". I was a bit shocked when he answered, "No". He said if you want to go to Sedona then you should drive there. I guess I was a little surprised by this...I understand that it is an airport that demands the utmost respect, and it is certainly not a place I would fly unless the winds were relatively calm (under 8-10kts), but what are your guys' thoughts on this? I have flown there with my instructor and didn't think it was a big deal (heck we even flew there on a rainy day). Maybe I am being naive? I would certainly make sure to do proper planning and respect the winds, weather, but maybe that isn't enough?

Maybe only the legendary pilots of POA can make the trip? :D but seriously...
 
Just looked up the airport and that's EXACTLY the type of field I would plan on going to for fun. Same reason I like going to short fields and practicing like X01 in FL, or KSPG, or KCDK.

So what if it has the highest accident rate in the country? Cigarettes kill people every year, does that mean no one smokes? What about those that drink?

It's one thing to be risk-averse but to just not do something at all because of a statistic is a bit...sad.

IF I had your DPE, after I got signed off on, I'd say, whelp glad that's done, I have dinner plans at KSEZ, have a nice night!
 
Yea idk interesting I guess...
 
Last edited:
I would probably think about the performance of my aircraft at high density altitude before I tried.
 
Caramon13 said:
IF I had your DPE, after I got signed off on, I'd say, whelp glad that's done, I have dinner plans at KSEZ, have a nice night!
Click to expand...

:lol::lol::lol:

I've never flown into there, but it's one of those things that just boils down to what your comfortable doing and what conditions you will fly in. What one person chooses not to do, another will do, kind of like Catalina
 
steingar said:
While it would seem to be very obvious to you and I, given the plethora of accidents at this aerodrome it isn't as obvious to lots of others.
Click to expand...

Indeed...
 
Airnav says average of 96 aircraft takeoffs or landings a day. Can't be all that bad.
 
Everyone has different levels of acceptable risk. His is pretty low compared to most here, but that is not a bad thing - we are all different. There is some stuff I think is crazy ****, but others think nothing of it.
 
You have to decide if,it fits in your personnel minimums. Would be like going into Block Island BID ,with higher density altitudes.
 
Beautiful airport with on of the best airside restaurants I've been to. But perched on the top of a mesa like it is, it is a little deceiving to the eye and it's easy to come in way too high or too low. I screwed up my first approach into there. It also gets really hot so you need to pay good attention to your performance during takeoff. Rwy is also slightly uphill as I recall.
 
steingar said:
I would probably think about the performance of my aircraft at high density altitude before I tried.
Click to expand...

Indeed. DA right now is about 7500 feet.

Caramon13 said:
IF I had your DPE, after I got signed off on, I'd say, whelp glad that's done, I have dinner plans at KSEZ, have a nice night!
Click to expand...

I had a student who trained in the flat land midwest, in the winter and spring, who thought he was going to go to Arizona the day after his checkride in an airplane he had flown once several months before. Would you advocate that too? Thankfully he didn't pass, otherwise I think he would have killed himself and his passenger. Now do I think he should never be allowed to go to Arizona? No, but the pilot needs to use good judgment. My guess is that the DPE in the OP's case was simply trying to discourage an inexperienced pilot from biting off more than they can chew. Just a quick scan of the comments on foreflight for the airport imply that there might be a few challenges getting in there that might take someone by surprise if they didn't do their homework.
 
At least every other year someone augers in at Tahoe or Truckee due to DA. Often taking their family with them. Not well appreciated.
 
Saying that Sedona is some menacing airport is like the dude recently who was making Catalina Island out to be a death trap.

As long as you recognize that SEZ is not your average flat land airport and you do basic private pilot level preflight planning, Sedona is a great place to fly to (with one of the nicer airport restaurants since the remodel).

It's the dudes who throw caution to the wind and try to treat it like a 7000' runway in Phoenix that are trouble.

If you go blasting into SEZ at VREF + 20, guess what - you're an A-hole.....oh and you are going to be taking your jet off road!
 
Sedona was my 2nd Cross Country Solo. 'Not that bad then, and I don't think of it as a particularly tough airport now. I was more afraid of having to fly at 8500ft to get there. It does have it's challenges, but most airports do. I don't mind the site picture as much as the mechanical turbulence that a good wind can create, coming over the nearby mesas. A breeze from the SE or NW can create an interesting XWind experience.
 
Him saying "never" seems overkill. Maybe he has more than one pilot he signed off go and get in an accident shortly after and was just trying to make an impression on you by saying he would never go. It's a cool destination and I'm sure is on a lot of pilots "I wanna go there" list. Kinda like Catalina. I've flown there, the "picture" is different. The "traps" are well documented. I wouldn't recommend it on a "the ink is still wet" ticket.
 
Thanks for the input!
 
CT4ME said:
Sedona was my 2nd Cross Country Solo. 'Not that bad then, and I don't think of it as a particularly tough airport now. I was more afraid of having to fly at 8500ft to get there. It does have it's challenges, but most airports do. I don't mind the site picture as much as the mechanical turbulence that a good wind can create, coming over the nearby mesas. A breeze from the SE or NW can create an interesting XWind experience.
Click to expand...

That's not looking too crazy, yeah it's got some DA concerns, but it's not anything super crazy and not a airport is imagine a DPE would be afraid of.
 
Been there, at least once a quarter in an Archer, no issues, love the food !!
 
I imagine on a hot day the density altitude there could top 10K feet. Wouldn't try it in a loaded up Cherokee. I suspect a lot of trainers might have problems with that kind of density altitude.
 
At least if you're not airborne by the end of the runway, you will be airborne when you go off the end... ;)
 
Seriously, it's not a dangerous place, just keep up/downdrafts in mind.
 
steingar said:
I imagine on a hot day the density altitude there could top 10K feet. Wouldn't try it in a loaded up Cherokee. I suspect a lot of trainers might have problems with that kind of density altitude.
Click to expand...

I've seen quite a lot of blanket statements like the OP's quote, and they really only make sense if the pilots don't consider current conditions in their decisions.

For instance, a number of people around the Bay (including quite a number of instructors) have said they would never fly under 180 HP in the Sierra. Never? Maybe not on a hot summer afternoon with the wind blowing. But people learn to fly in 160 HP 172s in the mountains all the time, even in Colorado Springs (7000 MSL).

I've been to Tahoe in a 172. It's definitely different from sea level, but it's only dangerous if you have the blinders on and go at it without any consideration of the conditions. Or if you misconfigure the airplaine....
 
Sedona was one of the places I got excited about as a destination after I passed the checkride! Do your homework and BE a pilot!
 
MAKG1 said:
I've seen quite a lot of blanket statements like the OP's quote, and they really only make sense if the pilots don't consider current conditions in their decisions.
Click to expand...

Which is why I specified on a hot day. Current conditions. Its just a lot of us get used to flying underpowered airplanes wherever we go, and don't always take into account things like density altitude. I wouldn't worry about it as much in a Skylane, but in a Skyhawk it could be an issue.

My old Cherokee might climb 200 feet a minute at 10K feet. That's lightly loaded, at gross it was quite a bit more sluggish if it could get there at all. Not such a good airplane for a high altitude airport on a hot day.
 
MAKG1 said:
I've been to Tahoe in a 172. It's definitely different from sea level, but it's only dangerous if you have the blinders on and go at it without any consideration of the conditions. Or if you misconfigure the airplane....
Click to expand...

I used a club 172 in South Lake Tahoe for a couple years. We always used a pipette to check fuel and fill as required only for our flight rather than topping them off after each flight. NEVER put fuel in after flying. Was still dicey with 4 people in the cool mornings but doable taking off out over the lake. Checked out in the plane flying over the burn spot from the last guy that didn't understand DA...
Damn fool in a 150 came in one morning and got carried out in a body bag that afternoon. Simply requires attention.
 
SEZ is the only airport I have gone from idle to full throttle a few times on approach. There was a fair breeze that day.
 
The one time I had an opportunity to fly to Sedona, I chickened out and went to Cottonwood instead. My wife is sensitive to turbulence and I was apprehensive about the ill effects.
 
This was a flight of eight CTs landing in Sedona last Oct. After the Page Fly-in
 
I flew from Flagstaff to Sedona one early morning around sunrise and I came over the edge of the canyon and I could not believe eyes. Spectacular red cliffs made redder by morning surise. It was still as could be as I landed at Sedona. Amazing place. Fun to explore with a jeep too!
 
An instructor I know and respect once said that he would NEVER go to an airport northwest of the Los Angeles area (Santa Paula, I think it was), but that was because of the way people fly there. With a few extreme exceptions, I can't imagine a competent pilot saying "never" just because the airport itself is challenging, and Sedona doesn't sound particularly extreme.
 
Here's a film of me landing there a couple years ago.

It does get sportier at night, especially if it's windy!

 
dans2992 said:
Here's a film of me landing there a couple years ago.

It does get sportier at night, especially if it's windy!

Click to expand...

Nice! I notice a lot of random skid marks at the end of the runway where you turned off! :eek: Never been, but I imagine a hot day with the wind blowing a bit could be real challenging. In a stronger crosswind, or turbulence, do you use a few extra knots an partial flaps and risk floating off the end, or do you use more of a short field slow approach and risk not having the power to over come a big down draft just before the numbers? On the other hand, it does look to be a pretty long runway. I personally would wait for the nearly perfect day as I am no back country warrior, but I would go for sure.

I don't know what the towns folk have to ***** about, the pattern is about twice as high over their heads as any other airport in country.
 
Dav8or said:
I don't know what the towns folk have to ***** about, the pattern is about twice as high over their heads as any other airport in country.
Click to expand...
Must be interfering with the "vortex." It sure would be nice if those new age idiots knew what a vortex actually was.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top