Flying to Nashville International

Martin Pauly

Martin Pauly

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Martin Pauly
I stopped in Nashville, TN on the way to Falcon Field (FFC) last Sunday. I had flown over BNA many times, but never landed there before. So I wanted to check it out. Here is the video of that flight.

Later today I'll be flying home to Iowa, with the benefit of the full digital autopilot interface between the Aspen PFD and the Garmin GFC600 autopilot. The project finally got the FAA's blessing, and Gardner Lowe in Peachtree City has completed the update on my Bonanza this week.

 
"Request"
 
Thank you for sharing.
One Q: during my VFR flights, including FF, after the initial full callsign, we always switch to the last 3 letters. In this video, both you and ATC use Bonanza 70TB every time. Seems very inefficient. Are those IFR rules?
 
MountainDude said:
Thank you for sharing.
One Q: during my VFR flights, including FF, after the initial full callsign, we always switch to the last 3 letters. In this video, both you and ATC use Bonanza 70TB every time. Seems very inefficient. Are those IFR rules?
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The "rules" are in the AIM (§4-2-4) and apply to both VFR and IFR. Pilots are supposed to use their full callsign. If ATC shortens it we may shorten it the same way. Why? You are 1234X. ATC is also talking to 2234X.

In Martin's case it just might be how short the callsign is. How "inefficient" is saying "seven"?
 
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Martin Pauly said:
I stopped in Nashville, TN on the way to Falcon Field (FFC) last Sunday. I had flown over BNA many times, but never landed there before. So I wanted to check it out. Here is the video of that flight.

Later today I'll be flying home to Iowa, with the benefit of the full digital autopilot interface between the Aspen PFD and the Garmin GFC600 autopilot. The project finally got the FAA's blessing, and Gardner Lowe in Peachtree City has completed the update on my Bonanza this week.

Click to expand...
Looking forward to the return flight. Want to see how well the Garmin/Aspen integration works.

BTW, when I planned my flight into PHL a few months ago, I looked for "Philadelphia International in a Bonanza." I could hardly believe there wasn't one!!!
 
midlifeflyer said:
The "rules" are in the AIM (§4-2-4) and apply to both VFR and IFR. Pilots are supposed to use their full callsign. If ATC shortens it we may shorten it the same way. Why? You are 1234X. ATC is also talking to 2234X.

In Martin's case it just might be how short the callsign is. How "inefficient" is saying "seven"?
Click to expand...

I think you should re-read the AIM reference you posted.
 
Hey Martin - thanks for posting the the bna approach video. I’m flying in to bna in a week or so - so totally helpful. I think I thanked you on Instagram already lol. But thanks. And I’m going to have to pick your brain on the gfc600. Any reason you got it over the 500 ? I’m not certificated for the 500 so only the 600 is an option but just checking why you chose one over the other.
 
eman1200 said:
I think you should re-read the AIM reference you posted.
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Help me out here. Which part? This one?
Call signs should never be abbreviated on an initial contact or at any time when other aircraft call signs have similar numbers/sounds or identical letters/number;​
this one?
Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.​
or this one?
ATC specialists will not abbreviate call signs of air carrier or other civil aircraft having authorized call signs. ATC specialists may initiate abbreviated call signs of other aircraft by using the prefix and the last three digits/letters of the aircraft identification after communications are established. The pilot may use the abbreviated call sign in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist.​
 
midlifeflyer said:
Help me out here. Which part? This one?
Call signs should never be abbreviated on an initial contact or at any time when other aircraft call signs have similar numbers/sounds or identical letters/number;​
this one?
Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.​
or this one?
ATC specialists will not abbreviate call signs of air carrier or other civil aircraft having authorized call signs. ATC specialists may initiate abbreviated call signs of other aircraft by using the prefix and the last three digits/letters of the aircraft identification after communications are established. The pilot may use the abbreviated call sign in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist.​
Click to expand...

Ya, that it’s perfectly ok to use abbreviated after initial. It’s also perfectly ok to use full if you feel like it. ATC will also alert you of similar tail #s, after which I’ll use full for the remainder of the time I’m on that frequency.
 
eman1200 said:
Ya, that it’s perfectly ok to use abbreviated after initial. It’s also perfectly ok to use full if you feel like it. ATC will also alert you of similar tail #s, after which I’ll use full for the remainder of the time I’m on that frequency.
Click to expand...
I guess we disagree on what it says.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I guess we disagree on what it says.
Click to expand...

in your first post, you said:

midlifeflyer said:
...Pilots are supposed to use their full callsign. If ATC shortens it we may shorten it the same way....
Click to expand...

neither of which is true with respect to the question you were answering (which was AFTER THE INITIAL CALL).

then I said: "Ya, that it’s perfectly ok to use abbreviated after initial." to which you replied and bolded: "The pilot may use the abbreviated call sign in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist. "

so no, I don't think we disagree on what the AIM says, I disagreed with what YOU said in your initial response.
 
eman1200 said:
in your first post, you said:

neither of which is true with respect to the question you were answering (which was AFTER THE INITIAL CALL).

then I said: "Ya, that it’s perfectly ok to use abbreviated after initial." to which you replied and bolded: "The pilot may use the abbreviated call sign in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist. "

so no, I don't think we disagree on what the AIM says, I disagreed with what YOU said in your initial response.
Click to expand...
We disagree on our interpretation of what the AIM says.

You interpret it as saying

ATC specialists may initiate abbreviated call signs of other aircraft by using the prefix and the last three digits/letters of the aircraft identification after communications are established. The pilot may use a three character abbreviated call sign in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist​

I think it says
ATC specialists will not abbreviate call signs of air carrier or other civil aircraft having authorized call signs. ATC specialists may initiate abbreviated call signs of other aircraft by using the prefix and the last three digits/letters of the aircraft identification after communications are established. The pilot may use the abbreviated call sign ATC initiated in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist​

I read "the" as referring back to the call sign ATC used. You read "the" as referring back to last three digit call signs. So yes, you disagree with what I said and I disagree with what you are saying. As you say, if there's a problem ATC will fix it. They're not going to Brasher someone over it, so no harm, no foul.
 
midlifeflyer said:
We disagree on our interpretation of what the AIM says.

You interpret it as saying

ATC specialists may initiate abbreviated call signs of other aircraft by using the prefix and the last three digits/letters of the aircraft identification after communications are established. The pilot may use a three character abbreviated call sign in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist​

I think it says
ATC specialists will not abbreviate call signs of air carrier or other civil aircraft having authorized call signs. ATC specialists may initiate abbreviated call signs of other aircraft by using the prefix and the last three digits/letters of the aircraft identification after communications are established. The pilot may use the abbreviated call sign ATC initiated in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist​

I read "the" as referring back to the call sign ATC used. You read "the" as referring back to last three digit call signs. So yes, you disagree with what I said and I disagree with what you are saying. As you say, if there's a problem ATC will fix it. They're not going to Brasher someone over it, so no harm, no foul.
Click to expand...

honestly at this point I have no idea what point you're trying to make. you seem to be highlighting random things out of context to what the full sentence is stating. I am ONLY trying to answer the question that was asked...NO it is not an IFR thing to read back your full tail # in its entirety after the first handshake...YES, it is common practice to shorten your tail # after the first handshake...and NO it's not a big deal reading your full tail # back after the initial handshake, nobody gives a sht. well, I didn't think anyone did.
 
eman1200 said:
honestly at this point I have no idea what point you're trying to make. you seem to be highlighting random things out of context to what the full sentence is stating. I am ONLY trying to answer the question that was asked...NO it is not an IFR thing to read back your full tail # in its entirety after the first handshake...YES, it is common practice to shorten your tail # after the first handshake...and NO it's not a big deal reading your full tail # back after the initial handshake, nobody gives a sht. well, I didn't think anyone did.
Click to expand...
Like I said, we disagree. No big deal.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Like I said, we disagree. No big deal.
Click to expand...

which of my 3 points do u disagree with? if it's the first one then you should be able to show an actual regulation that states something like "when flying IFR you must read back the full tail# on every call". if it's the second or third point, then I guess myself, 99% of everyone I've ever heard on the radio, and ATC has been wrong for the last 10 years or so.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Like I said, we disagree. No big deal.
Click to expand...

let's have a listen, shall we? your video.....


hhmmm, ATC must have been wrong at 2:15
hhmmm, ATC must have been wrong at 2:50
hhmmm, ATC must have been wrong at 3:40
hhmmm, ATC must have been wrong at 5:05
hhmmm, ATC must have been wrong at 5:45

I figure 5 times in a span of 3.5 minutes was enough for me.
 
eman1200 said:
in your first post, you said:



neither of which is true with respect to the question you were answering (which was AFTER THE INITIAL CALL).

then I said: "Ya, that it’s perfectly ok to use abbreviated after initial." to which you replied and bolded: "The pilot may use the abbreviated call sign in subsequent contacts with the ATC specialist. "

so no, I don't think we disagree on what the AIM says, I disagreed with what YOU said in your initial response.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all your efforts and clarifications. There is so much misinformation that is propagated on the internet, sometimes with assertiveness. Sigh.
 
mark.staggs said:
LOL! That was great. I've always wanted to do that (but on purpose) in response to "say request" or "say altitude".
Click to expand...
If you hear "say altitude" and respond "altitude," it buys you that much more time to get back to the assigned altitude before you have to say a number.

midlifeflyer said:
How "inefficient" is saying "seven"?
Click to expand...
70TB is 8 syllables, 0TB is 6, so "seven" is 33% inefficient. But since the poetic meter matches all the way through, I don't think it is a meaningful difference in efficiency with those precious electrons coming out of the radio.

Martin Pauly said:
Later today I'll be flying home to Iowa, with the benefit of the full digital autopilot interface between the Aspen PFD and the Garmin GFC600 autopilot. The project finally got the FAA's blessing, and Gardner Lowe in Peachtree City has completed the update on my Bonanza this week.
Click to expand...
I look forward to your video about this. Best wishes for a no-squawk acceptance flight!
 
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