Flying the Columbia River Gorge Tips/Suggestions

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Narwhal

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Hello,

I'm taking delivery of a Carbon Cub in Late May and am required to accomplish a 40 hour Experimental/Amateur Built Phase 1 flyoff within 75 NM of Hood River, OR (4S2). I'm looking for any advice/tips on flying in this area including fun places to fly and/or safety/weather tips and local knowledge. I am going to get a 1 day checkout from a local flight school in same-type a/c before I cut loose on my own in the new airplane (as a follow up to the week-long type transition training I already completed last year). The first 5-10 hours will probably be dedicated to engine break-in but I can do normal flying after that.

My Wife is going to drive down from AK for ground support, so I will have the ability to be met with a car at various places should I so choose. Thanks in advance.
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I have flown inside the Gorge. If there is any wind at all across it, it will be turbulent. That's all I know about it, though. I got my RV-14 transition training at Vernonia and we had to fly up the Gorge to find a high enough ceiling one day.
 
Narwhal said:
Hello,

I'm taking delivery of a Carbon Cub in Late May and am required to accomplish a 40 hour Experimental/Amateur Built Phase 1 flyoff within 75 NM of Hood River, OR (4S2). I'm looking for any advice/tips on flying in this area including fun places to fly and/or safety/weather tips and local knowledge. I am going to get a 1 day checkout from a local flight school in same-type a/c before I cut loose on my own in the new airplane (as a follow up to the week-long type transition training I already completed last year). The first 5-10 hours will probably be dedicated to engine break-in but I can do normal flying after that.

My Wife is going to drive down from AK for ground support, so I will have the ability to be met with a car at various places should I so choose. Thanks in advance.
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I've done it a few times but I will page @Pilawt for you who has done it probably many, many more times than I.
 
The obligatory lap around Mt. Saint Helen's, a visit to Packwood, Tieton State (4S6), Cascade Locks (CZK). That'll chew up a little time. While you're at Hood River, visit WAAM, the best air museum nobody has heard of.

Do your flying early in the morning when you start out. Wind tends to pick up later in the day. And, it can get quite sporty.
 
wilkersk said:
The obligatory lap around Mt. Saint Helen's, a visit to Packwood, Tieton State (4S6), Cascade Locks (CZK). That'll chew up a little time. While you're at Hood River, visit WAAM, the best air museum nobody has heard of.

Do your flying early in the morning when you start out. Wind tends to pick up later in the day. And, it can get quite sporty.
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Thanks. At least two brand new airplanes of my type have been wrecked during their flyoffs or very shortly after in the area in the past 6 months. One at the Dalles and one at PDX for sure. Ground loops.
 
Looks like KMMV. McMinnville is (just) within your circle. You can land there, walk across the road to the Evergreen museum; plan a long day there, lots to see.
As to actually flying the Gorge, it might not hurt to drive through first, looking at all the power lines that crisscross the river, just to get an idea of high you want to stay to be safe. And, the posts regarding wind are spot-on.
 
Narwhal said:
Thanks. At least two brand new airplanes of my type have been wrecked during their flyoffs or very shortly after in the area in the past 6 months. One at the Dalles and one at PDX for sure. Ground loops.
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Maybe a proper 40-hour test flight plan would be more appropriate than a fly-off of the hours.
 
iamtheari said:
Maybe a proper 40-hour test flight plan would be more appropriate than a fly-off of the hours.
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I have AC 90-89B and plan to use it as a template. I don't think it will take the entire 40 hours to accomplish most of what's outlined though. I realize that the builder assist programs are looked down upon by many and the accident record isn't helping, just trying to avoid ending up the same way.
 
No advice from me, I just wanted to say ... great airplane! :)
 
If there is any wind at all between The Dallas and Troutdale be prepared to see the 18 wheelers on I84 pass you!
 
First, nice looking plane.

Now, there's an embarrassment of riches in terms of places to go during that 40 hours. I'll second the recommendation that you make a run to McMinnville and go across the street to the museum there. We had an activity there when I was still working for Intel and I drove up the center of the access road to the museum. Why? Because it is painted like a runway and you always center your aircraft on the centerline of the runway. :)

A circle or two around Mt. St. Helens is a must. It just is. I've only been into Packwood once, and that was years ago, so I can't recommend any place. I see that Yakima is inside the circle. Again, it has been years, but as I recall there is a great museum, as well as a place to eat on the field.

Have fun!
 
The area around Hood River is basically the crest of the Cascade Mountains, so if there’s any wind at all, expect it to get bumpy. Hood River airport has its own METAR, but for a TAF, they borrow the one from The Dallas, just to the east. Here’s where that Cascade Mountains thing gets relevant again: the two cities are on opposite sides of the crest. Hood River is green and wet, while The Dalles is brown and dry. Keep that in mind when you evaluate the weather. The wind blows like crazy through both towns. Driving along I84, you’ll see evergreen trees with no branches growing on their upwind sides. And plenty of wind surfers and kite boarders in the river dodging barge traffic.

If you’re a coffee drinker, try Doppio in Hood River on Oak St. +1 on both the Hood River and McMinville museums. Packwood is pretty small as towns go, but beautiful country. Watch for deer and elk on the runway. Between St. Helens and I-5 is DB Cooper country. Look down at that and imagine jumping off the rear air stair of a 727 into a dark stormy night with all those bags of money.
 
You bring back a memory about playing hooky while on a business trip in 2003. Flying out of 4S2 A special kind of "turns around a point."
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iamtheari said:
Maybe a proper 40-hour test flight plan would be more appropriate than a fly-off of the hours.
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A plane like this, an established design built under a builder assistance program, is unlikely to present many surprises in its performance and handling, much like a standard certified aircraft or a kit built ELSA, which only requires 5 hours. So much of the "testing" is confirming the already established numbers, and reliability testing.

donjohnston said:
What engine and prop are you running? I'm guessing that's why the 40 hour phase I.
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40 hours is standard in the E-AB world, unless you're using a certified engine/prop combination exactly as it came from a standard aircraft. That was more common in the days when many builders would buy a used FWF from a wrecked plane; nowadays everybody wants the modern stuff that's only available in the experimental world.
 
Narwhal said:
Thanks. At least two brand new airplanes of my type have been wrecked during their flyoffs or very shortly after in the area in the past 6 months. One at the Dalles and one at PDX for sure. Ground loops.
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Does the Carbon Cub have a tailwheel lock?

You're going to have a blast in that plane after the 40 hour phase I. Are you then flying to AK?
 
donjohnston said:
What engine and prop are you running? I'm guessing that's why the 40 hour phase I.
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The engine is an experimental lycoming that cubcrafters calls a "cc363i". Lycoming calls it the YIO-360-EXP128. It's pretty much an IO-360 with 9:1 pistons that's been lightened a little bit and is dual lightspeed electronic ignition only. The Propeller is a Hartzell Trailblazer 80" 2 blade.

Domenick said:
Does the Carbon Cub have a tailwheel lock?

You're going to have a blast in that plane after the 40 hour phase I. Are you then flying to AK?
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No, there is no tailwheel lock, and yep, I'm flying it to AK after the flyoff.
 
Dana said:
A40 hours is standard in the E-AB world, unless you're using a certified engine/prop combination exactly as it came from a standard
aircraft. That was more common in the days when many builders would buy a used FWF from a wrecked plane; nowadays everybody wants the modern stuff that's only available in the experimental world.
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That's not exactly correct. My IO550 came off a Cirrus but with an MT prop. Fortunately MT got that prop/engine combination certified so I only needed a 25 hour phase I. Which is really nice. Flying holes in the sky in the same place gets old after a while. I had the area between Sebastian and Stuart, FL memorized.
 
donjohnston said:
That's not exactly correct. My IO550 came off a Cirrus but with an MT prop. Fortunately MT got that prop/engine combination certified so I only needed a 25 hour phase I. Which is really nice. Flying holes in the sky in the same place gets old after a while. I had the area between Sebastian and Stuart, FL memorized.
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I agree with this. I would have probably needed a bit more than 25 hours to complete all my planned tests for the RV-14, but by the end of 40 hours the only thing I had left to test was the continued reliability of the Lycoming/Hartzell powerplant that so many others had already proved worthy.
 
Domenick said:
What route are you taking?
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Trench preferably. There is a huge insurance question though, I am having extreme trouble getting any kind of policy, even liability despite 11,000 accident free/no claim hours and a 1 week factory approved training course for 17 hours in type. If I can't get liability insurance I will definitely be taking the coastal route, and even then it seems that liability is technically required even in Canadian "airspace" if you don't land. I wouldn't think that a 2 seat cub flying over sparsely populated areas would be a huge liability risk, but apparently it is. No one wants to touch Alaska insurance.
 
Narwhal said:
Trench preferably. There is a huge insurance question though, I am having extreme trouble getting any kind of policy, even liability despite 11,000 accident free/no claim hours and a 1 week factory approved training course for 17 hours in type. If I can't get liability insurance I will definitely be taking the coastal route, and even then it seems that liability is technically required even in Canadian "airspace" if you don't land. I wouldn't think that a 2 seat cub flying over sparsely populated areas would be a huge liability risk, but apparently it is. No one wants to touch Alaska insurance.
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I haven't tried for Alaska or Canada insurance, but my broker got me a fair rate and fair requirements last year when I bought the 310 and had 0 multi hours before getting my rating in the plane. That was from a company she said wouldn't even quote me as a new multi pilot, while the others she was getting were all 2-3 times the premium I ended up paying. Keep at it, I'm sure someone will cover you.
 
The Gorge was no problem. Very scenic. Sure, very windy at the Dalles and turbulent in spots, but highly scenic and overall enjoyable flying even if I was mostly just boring holes in the sky to complete engine break-in. The John Day river canyons were pretty fun at 120 mph (although a few bumps through there inspired me to buy a helmet), and Madras was a great airport with a beautiful grass runway and friendly FBO. Hood River, where the flyoff was based was great too, usually half the wind of the The Dalles and a nice hamburger stand at the end of the runway. If the gorge wind got into the 30+ knot range I just bailed to Yakima or Madras and flew around there.

Here is the route I ended up taking to Canada. we took it slow and made the trip in 5 days, although we did a full 24 hours in Whitehorse and another 24 hours in Skagway for fun. Very easy, including the customs appointments at both ends. The only adjustment was getting used to the Canadian flight service stations which blur the lines between towers and and FSS (they assign squawks that they want you to keep for the whole day?).

The only other hiccup is that I opened my flight plan to cross 49 north with Seattle Radio, they gave me a cross-border squawk, then I called up Seattle Center for flight following and they assigned me a different squawk and told me to cross the border on their code, even though they couldn't keep radar contact with me at 5500 ft as I crossed. Then, the first Canadian FSS mandatory frequency I talked to north of the border (Penticton) wanted me back on the original Seattle Radio issued squawk. IDK what's going on there.

I'm sure I could've easily done the coast to ANC in 2-3 days or so, and the beaches north of Cross Sound/Cape Spencer looked like incredibly nice emergency runways if necessary. Only problem is the brown bears of which at least one was visible every 4-5 miles on the beach. We lost count of the bears very quickly, just a ton of them between Skagway and Yakutat. I'm told it's much rockier south of that though. In any case, my passenger probably appreciated the bathroom stops every 2-3 hours versus the 3-4 hour legs the coast would've presented.

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Flying over the damn at The Dalles:
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Airplane on the ramp at Skagway:
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congrats on your Carbon Cub!

midlifeflyer said:
You bring back a memory about playing hooky while on a business trip in 2003. Flying out of 4S2 A special kind of "turns around a point."
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I did the same thing...but back about maybe 1996 or so... out in Portland for a convention...just went up with an instructor out of Pearson Filed... it was an unusually perfect blue sky kind of day...turned close around St Helens and up the Gorge to about CAscade Locks I think. Very memorable flight!
 
Narwhal said:
The Gorge was no problem. Very scenic. Sure, very windy at the Dalles and turbulent in spots, but highly scenic and overall enjoyable flying even if I was mostly just boring holes in the sky to complete engine break-in. The John Day river canyons were pretty fun at 120 mph (although a few bumps through there inspired me to buy a helmet), and Madras was a great airport with a beautiful grass runway and friendly FBO. Hood River, where the flyoff was based was great too, usually half the wind of the The Dalles and a nice hamburger stand at the end of the runway. If the gorge wind got into the 30+ knot range I just bailed to Yakima or Madras and flew around there.

Here is the route I ended up taking to Canada. we took it slow and made the trip in 5 days, although we did a full 24 hours in Whitehorse and another 24 hours in Skagway for fun. Very easy, including the customs appointments at both ends. The only adjustment was getting used to the Canadian flight service stations which blur the lines between towers and and FSS (they assign squawks that they want you to keep for the whole day?).

The only other hiccup is that I opened my flight plan to cross 49 north with Seattle Radio, they gave me a cross-border squawk, then I called up Seattle Center for flight following and they assigned me a different squawk and told me to cross the border on their code, even though they couldn't keep radar contact with me at 5500 ft as I crossed. Then, the first Canadian FSS mandatory frequency I talked to north of the border (Penticton) wanted me back on the original Seattle Radio issued squawk. IDK what's going on there.

I'm sure I could've easily done the coast to ANC in 2-3 days or so, and the beaches north of Cross Sound/Cape Spencer looked like incredibly nice emergency runways if necessary. Only problem is the brown bears of which at least one was visible every 4-5 miles on the beach. We lost count of the bears very quickly, just a ton of them between Skagway and Yakutat. I'm told it's much rockier south of that though. In any case, my passenger probably appreciated the bathroom stops every 2-3 hours versus the 3-4 hour legs the coast would've presented.

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Flying over the damn at The Dalles:
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Airplane on the ramp at Skagway:
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What's that thing that looks like it's getting sucked out the right window?
 
luvflyin said:
What's that thing that looks like it's getting sucked out the right window?
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Looks like a reflection from the landing gear or some other part of the airplane, maybe a reflection from the water below; window was closed.

Here's another angle:
Gorge 4.jpg
 
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Ditto KMMV! Stop by the A&P that works out of there - he's a great guy!
 
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