Flying Magazine article

GSDpilot

GSDpilot

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GSDpilot
I was triggered. I am hoping to get some feedback from the aviation community. I read an article written by John King (of King Schools) in the September 2021 issue of Flying magazine. In this article, John recounts a story where he was pulled out of his airplane in CA by police at gunpoint. The police were told by an intelligence agency that a stolen airplane was landing at an airport in their jurisdiction. It turned out that the registration number of King's airplane used to be registered as a stolen airplane and was completely unrelated.

King goes on to talk about how it felt to have guns pointed at him and chastizes the police for their handling of the situation. What happened to King was called a felony car stop, where the occupants of a suspected felony crime are ordered out of a vehicle with their hands in the air and guns drawn. King makes mention in this article that this has happened to others.

I was a police officer for 15 years. What sucks about the job is you are judged in a situation based on all of the facts, not what you know at the time. The officers had no idea that this was a mistake, and they handled the situation as they were trained. I did many felony car stops in my career and weapons are almost always at low ready (not aimed at the suspect). Furthermore, show me an example of an accidental discharge on a felony car stop. I promise the media would have this on a constant loop for all to see. I am not saying it doesn't happen, it just certainly doesn't happen at the frequency John King would make you think in his telling of the story.

All of this is debatable. What upset me was that I researched this online and found out the incident happened 10 years ago. It felt like this was re-printed to capitalize on the current de-fund the police popularity, and in the September 2021 issue (20 year anniversary of 9/11). It also insinuates that this happens all the time. I think Flying magazine should have some journalistic integrity and find others to corroborate King's claim.

I have never heard of this happening, has anybody else? I am certainly sensitive to the topic, and maybe need to open my mind. I plan on canceling my subscription to Flying magazine, it just felt greasy. Am I over-reacting?
 
What bothered me about this incident was that it was obvious the Kings posed no threat to law enforcement but the response was over the top. Once it was established that they were cooperating, the use of force became un necessary. They should not have been handcuffed.

I was not there but from what I read, the police response was a bit over the top.
 
GSDpilot said:
I was triggered. I am hoping to get some feedback from the aviation community. I read an article written by John King (of King Schools) in the September 2021 issue of Flying magazine. In this article, John recounts a story where he was pulled out of his airplane in CA by police at gunpoint. The police were told by an intelligence agency that a stolen airplane was landing at an airport in their jurisdiction. It turned out that the registration number of King's airplane used to be registered as a stolen airplane and was completely unrelated.

King goes on to talk about how it felt to have guns pointed at him and chastizes the police for their handling of the situation. What happened to King was called a felony car stop, where the occupants of a suspected felony crime are ordered out of a vehicle with their hands in the air and guns drawn. King makes mention in this article that this has happened to others.

I was a police officer for 15 years. What sucks about the job is you are judged in a situation based on all of the facts, not what you know at the time. The officers had no idea that this was a mistake, and they handled the situation as they were trained. I did many felony car stops in my career and weapons are almost always at low ready (not aimed at the suspect). Furthermore, show me an example of an accidental discharge on a felony car stop. I promise the media would have this on a constant loop for all to see. I am not saying it doesn't happen, it just certainly doesn't happen at the frequency John King would make you think in his telling of the story.

All of this is debatable. What upset me was that I researched this online and found out the incident happened 10 years ago. It felt like this was re-printed to capitalize on the current de-fund the police popularity, and in the September 2021 issue (20 year anniversary of 9/11). It also insinuates that this happens all the time. I think Flying magazine should have some journalistic integrity and find others to corroborate King's claim.

I have never heard of this happening, has anybody else? I am certainly sensitive to the topic, and maybe need to open my mind. I plan on canceling my subscription to Flying magazine, it just felt greasy. Am I over-reacting?
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And then there was this.
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...ly-arrested-for-flying-over-nuke-plant.55787/

I just set my expectations low and everything’s better.
 
GSDpilot said:
I was triggered. I am hoping to get some feedback from the aviation community. I read an article written by John King (of King Schools) in the September 2021 issue of Flying magazine. In this article, John recounts a story where he was pulled out of his airplane in CA by police at gunpoint. The police were told by an intelligence agency that a stolen airplane was landing at an airport in their jurisdiction. It turned out that the registration number of King's airplane used to be registered as a stolen airplane and was completely unrelated.

King goes on to talk about how it felt to have guns pointed at him and chastizes the police for their handling of the situation. What happened to King was called a felony car stop, where the occupants of a suspected felony crime are ordered out of a vehicle with their hands in the air and guns drawn. King makes mention in this article that this has happened to others.

I was a police officer for 15 years. What sucks about the job is you are judged in a situation based on all of the facts, not what you know at the time. The officers had no idea that this was a mistake, and they handled the situation as they were trained. I did many felony car stops in my career and weapons are almost always at low ready (not aimed at the suspect). Furthermore, show me an example of an accidental discharge on a felony car stop. I promise the media would have this on a constant loop for all to see. I am not saying it doesn't happen, it just certainly doesn't happen at the frequency John King would make you think in his telling of the story.

All of this is debatable. What upset me was that I researched this online and found out the incident happened 10 years ago. It felt like this was re-printed to capitalize on the current de-fund the police popularity, and in the September 2021 issue (20 year anniversary of 9/11). It also insinuates that this happens all the time. I think Flying magazine should have some journalistic integrity and find others to corroborate King's claim.

I have never heard of this happening, has anybody else? I am certainly sensitive to the topic, and maybe need to open my mind. I plan on canceling my subscription to Flying magazine, it just felt greasy. Am I over-reacting?
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I haven't heard of exactly that happening. But I've heard of shootings at non felony stops. Yer tail light is out or you ran a stop sign types. Driver starts doing something stupid that looks like reaching for a gun maybe. Cop now has to react immediately. Gotta get his gun outta the holster first. Adrenaline is flowing. Things are happening like really fast now. Bang. I've always thought cops should have their guns out and ready to go at all stops. That way they can see what's happening and maybe see that it wasn't a gun the driver was reaching for and hold off for a second before pulling the trigger.
As far of the rest of what you posted, yeah, some people feel special and how dare a cop ever pull a gun on me.
 
Joe_B1 said:
What bothered me about this incident was that it was obvious the Kings posed no threat to law enforcement but the response was over the top. Once it was established that they were cooperating, the use of force became un necessary. They should not have been handcuffed.

I was not there but from what I read, the police response was a bit over the top.
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That is a great point. The process ends with people in handcuffs. The police are trained to get the occupants into custody, then sort it out once everybody is safe. Rarely do people in stolen vehicles say they know it is stolen. It took the police a bit of time to figure out that the airplane was not stolen. When you start saying that you won't put the elderly couple in handcuffs on a felony car stop because they don't appear as a threat, but do to younger people, you create inequality. I totally understand your point and do think it is valid for the discussion. It is entirely possible the police mishandled this situation. If so, it should be addressed. My main point is that Flying magazine reprinted this and made it sound like it just happened. Insensitive given the current political landscape and the anniversary of 9/11.
 
GSDpilot said:
I was triggered. I am hoping to get some feedback from the aviation community. I read an article written by John King (of King Schools) in the September 2021 issue of Flying magazine. In this article, John recounts a story where he was pulled out of his airplane in CA by police at gunpoint. The police were told by an intelligence agency that a stolen airplane was landing at an airport in their jurisdiction. It turned out that the registration number of King's airplane used to be registered as a stolen airplane and was completely unrelated.

King goes on to talk about how it felt to have guns pointed at him and chastizes the police for their handling of the situation. What happened to King was called a felony car stop, where the occupants of a suspected felony crime are ordered out of a vehicle with their hands in the air and guns drawn. King makes mention in this article that this has happened to others.

I was a police officer for 15 years. What sucks about the job is you are judged in a situation based on all of the facts, not what you know at the time. The officers had no idea that this was a mistake, and they handled the situation as they were trained. I did many felony car stops in my career and weapons are almost always at low ready (not aimed at the suspect). Furthermore, show me an example of an accidental discharge on a felony car stop. I promise the media would have this on a constant loop for all to see. I am not saying it doesn't happen, it just certainly doesn't happen at the frequency John King would make you think in his telling of the story.

All of this is debatable. What upset me was that I researched this online and found out the incident happened 10 years ago. It felt like this was re-printed to capitalize on the current de-fund the police popularity, and in the September 2021 issue (20 year anniversary of 9/11). It also insinuates that this happens all the time. I think Flying magazine should have some journalistic integrity and find others to corroborate King's claim.

I have never heard of this happening, has anybody else? I am certainly sensitive to the topic, and maybe need to open my mind. I plan on canceling my subscription to Flying magazine, it just felt greasy. Am I over-reacting?
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There’s plenty of examples around that happen on a regular basis to demonstrate we need significant reforms in regards to criminal justice in our country. No need to use this one event to formulate an opinion. I think your assertion the Kings support defunding the police is quite a stretch.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
There’s plenty of examples around that happen on a regular basis to demonstrate we need significant reforms in regards to criminal justice in our country. No need to use this one event to formulate an opinion. I think your assertion the Kings support defunding the police is quite a stretch.
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Could you point me to where I asserted that? I would like to edit it if it came across that way.
 
GSDpilot said:
Troll away, it's a free country
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I meant what I said. I can see how this may offend you even though you weren't involved.

Not a troll - quoted response was taken out of context and was in response to someone else. This is a pilot's forum, we are allowed to have some fun here too. That picture of Martha with her hands up has been trotted out several times as a joke on this forum.
 
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I’m on all sides of the fence here. First off, and most importantly, I respect you and your job and understand how difficult and important it is.

less importantly, I do not think a stolen car in and of itself rises to the level where you should have a gun pointed at you. “Drawn” is not pointed. Drawn is acceptable to me in the circumstances.

Additionally, if the people involved in any traffic stop do something to make you threatened, then all bets are off. Your safety is as important to me as the people you are interacting with.

Last time I was at sun and fun I inadvertently got around the fencing at the f-22 static display. It had been moved in a way that when I happened to walk up looking at the plane and not the surroundings, I didn’t notice the intent to stop walking traffic. An MP briskly approached me and shouted loudly while “drawing” his rifle. He did not point it, but it was clear that he was ready to do so. I certainly did not feel comfortable, and I was not at fault as I was simply walking slowly without bypassing any signage or fencing. But I think the guy did his job perfectly. I immediately realized my mistake and backed off and apologized, as after looking around I realized they did not intend for people to be where I was.
 
GSDpilot said:
It felt like this was re-printed to capitalize on the current de-fund the police popularity
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Could be. I dropped my subscription to Flying after they dipped their toe into global warming - and they weren't talking about more efficient aircraft engines.
 
I'm not a fan of the defund the police movement, and in my completely uneducated guess, I doubt the Kings or the folks at Flying magazine are either. Both, however, are prone to tell and re-tell stories from the past, and I suspect that is what happened here.
 
not in my opinion, no, you're not over reacting. none of us were there and from my experience people who either feel they were wronged or who were actually wronged tend to exaggerate what they consider to be improper/illegal/unwarranted actions of police...human nature, I guess. I think one needs to walk in their shoes to truly understand how things look to an officer during a felony stop. I have not seen the article but if this truly happened 10-years ago then I have to question Flying Magazine's motives for printing the article now.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I meant what I said. I can see how this may offend you even though you weren't involved.

Not a troll - quoted response was taken out of context and was in response to someone else. This is a pilot's forum, we are allowed to have some fun here too.
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Yes, that is what I was saying. If you want to accuse me of wanting to shoot you, you can post whatever you want. Have fun!
 
I'm not a fan of punishing an entire organization for the actions of few. In this case, one writer has an opinion and the magazine chooses to let them express it. I kind of like that. Write in to the editor... they publish opinions that differ from the writer all the time. Martha Lunkin being suspended from writing is a good example of this.

If everyone dropped their subscriptions, it would cost a lot of people who share your opinion to lose their jobs. I'm sure the magazine will be okay though.

By the way, there's a new owner who is a pilot and seems to be ready to bring the magazine back to being the number one aviation publication. I'm hoping he gets it done.
 
Salty said:
Last time I was at sun and fun I inadvertently got around the fencing at the f-22 static display. It had been moved in a way that when I happened to walk up looking at the plane and not the surroundings, I didn’t notice the intent to stop walking traffic. An MP briskly approached me and shouted loudly while “drawing” his rifle. He did not point it, but it was clear that he was ready to do so. I certainly did not feel comfortable, and I was not at fault as I was simply walking slowly without bypassing any signage or fencing. But I think the guy did his job perfectly. I immediately realized my mistake and backed off and apologized, as after looking around I realized they did not intend for people to be where I was.
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MP is not a cop, in my opinion his response was justified multi million dollar plane, some random guy wandering up. Yeah, he did the right thing but it would have been wrong if he pointed the rifle.

Back in a previous life, I did some work for an unnamed company that involved a nuke. We were installing measuring equipment but there was a live nuke at the other end of the tunnel. There were also two guys at the other end of the tunnel with rifles and they were instructed that if any of us crossed a certain line, they were to shoot us. Everyone down there knew where this line was and we did not approach. Also, there was no talking to the guys with the guns, things were serious down there.
 
GSDpilot said:
That is a great point. The process ends with people in handcuffs. The police are trained to get the occupants into custody, then sort it out once everybody is safe. Rarely do people in stolen vehicles say they know it is stolen. It took the police a bit of time to figure out that the airplane was not stolen. When you start saying that you won't put the elderly couple in handcuffs on a felony car stop because they don't appear as a threat, but do to younger people, you create inequality. I totally understand your point and do think it is valid for the discussion. It is entirely possible the police mishandled this situation. If so, it should be addressed. My main point is that Flying magazine reprinted this and made it sound like it just happened. Insensitive given the current political landscape and the anniversary of 9/11.
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Yup. There is a valid reason for the cuffs while things are being sorted out. But some people feel special and how dare you put cuffs on me.
 
A 10 year old event seeming new and then being triggered by the rehashed story might help explain why you think "defund the police" is something popular. Its your diet. But oh so sadly typical. You get told a slanted story about something that you didn't like because of a tangential affinity so like a true SJW cry out and its straight to CANCEL!
 
GSDpilot said:
Could you point me to where I asserted that? I would like to edit it if it came across that way.
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Apologies if I miss understood but it seemed as though a basic premise of your criticism was some motivation to gain ratings/views by reprinting a story from ten years ago today in suggested support of today’s current events and you specifically mentioned the defunding movement.


To be blunt the most accurate assessment in your post was your observation that you were triggered. Everything afterwards supported that primary observation.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Apologies if I miss understood but it seemed as though a basic premise of your criticism was some motivation to gain ratings/views by reprinting a story from ten years ago today in suggested support of today’s current events and you specifically mentioned the defunding movement.


To be blunt the most accurate assessment in your post was your observation that you were triggered. Everything afterwards supported that primary observation.
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You are probably right. I wasn't asserting that King is for the defund the police movement, but that Flying magazine was using it for their gain. The triggering, cancel culture stuff makes me sick, but here I am triggering and cancelling. This was the feedback I needed. Thanks,
 
GSDpilot said:
You are probably right. I wasn't asserting that King is for the defund the police movement, but that Flying magazine was using it for their gain. The triggering, cancel culture stuff makes me sick, but here I am triggering and cancelling. This was the feedback I needed. Thanks,
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I appreciate you reading my post at face value. I do not have fifteen years experience like you. Only about three for me. I do understand the sensitivity but I try to be objective. There is a lot of room for improvement. Defunding the police, however, is a fools errand.
 
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- I need to see your driver's license
- Ok, it's in my wallet in my back pocket. Let me slowly reach back there and get my walle---BANG

Count me not a fan. Sorry to say, but in my view what the police did with the Kings was just part of the decline in service quality. 50 years ago, it was unthinkable that police would handcuff someone as a matter of course. Now it's required.
 
luvflyin said:
Yup. There is a valid reason for the cuffs while things are being sorted out. But some people feel special and how dare you put cuffs on me.
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I disagree. There used to be such a thing as discretion.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I disagree. There used to be such a thing as discretion.
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Thats a side effect of equality, old ladies and young POCs. A stolen vehicle is a stolen vehicle. I don't think she was made to spread eagle on a hot tarmac was she? Thats some discretion. Plus the Kings are of an age to be confused with radical outlaw hippies, right? Militia separatists?
There is plenty of discretion to be had but that particular event was way out in the open, I don't know if it was recorded by a news crew or bystander but either way I think the officer on point knew he was being watched so he went by the book. I have plenty of problems with doctrine and training as well, sometimes its about being too accommodating and deferential:(
 
At the time of the King incident, there were multiple other reports of "suspicious" aircraft being reported to police by the Feds and being stopped, searched, and interrogated based on inaccurate or incomplete data. It unveiled a somewhat secretive program the Feds were using to flag aircraft that were in their eyes operating suspiciously, basically flying VFR cross-country, that became a controversy. The King's were just the most prominent of pilots impacted by this program. After some political pushback, the program either got mothballed, or got better at what it was doing.
 
Touchy issue. One of my best friends is a cop, he won't even arrest anybody anymore because he feels the DA and the Leadership of the PD aren't standing behind the cops nor prosecuting the evil doers.

On the other hand, the police have become way too militarized and too anti civil rights. We have a constitution for a reason, the police think it's just some thing they can get around.

No knock raids, illegal searches, arresting people for filming on a public street, etc. etc. Typical "the rules are for you, not for me" behavior.

If you think it's a one of situation, go watch Audit the Audit on Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc-0YpRpqgA5lPTpSQ5uo-Q
 
I doubt there are many innocent people who come away from a felony stop thinking they were treated fairly.
 
cowtowner said:
Touchy issue. One of my best friends is a cop, he won't even arrest anybody anymore because he feels the DA and the Leadership of the PD aren't standing behind the cops nor prosecuting the evil doers.
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That is certainly an issue here. Our local PD is losing a lot of officers due to this. I asked our Sheriff one day in a meeting why we keep seeing the same people in the arrest reports almost weekly, was the new jail we just built full? He said no, barely half capacity at best. The judges and DA keep turning people back out. One recent case in the news, a guy shot multiple times at a car full of people. I think you and I would consider than attempted manslaughter. DA pled it down to unlawful discharge of a firearm, guy got one year probation. Only reason it wasn't murder was a little luck and bad aim.
 
bflynn said:
- I need to see your driver's license
- Ok, it's in my wallet in my back pocket. Let me slowly reach back there and get my walle---BANG

Count me not a fan. Sorry to say, but in my view what the police did with the Kings was just part of the decline in service quality. 50 years ago, it was unthinkable that police would handcuff someone as a matter of course. Now it's required.
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Thirty years ago it was unthinkable that a simple traffic stop by a policeman would result in the driver shooting the officer. Now it's common.

October 22, 2021

FBI Releases Statistics for Law Enforcement Officers Assaulted and Killed in the Line of Duty

According to statistics reported to the FBI, 59 police officers were killed in the line of duty from January 1, 2021, to September 30, 2021. This marks a 51 percent increase in the number of police officers killed when compared to the same period last year.

https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/fiel...cers-assaulted-and-killed-in-the-line-of-duty
 
3393RP said:
Thirty years ago it was unthinkable that a simple traffic stop by a policeman would result in the driver shooting the officer. Now it's common.

According to statistics reported to the FBI, 59 police officers were killed in the line of duty from January 1, 2021, to September 30, 2021. This marks a 51 percent increase in the number of police officers killed when compared to the same period last year.
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The increase is troublesome. But officers getting shot on traffic stops is now “common”?

How many of these 59 deaths were traffic stops? And how many traffic stops total do you think there were in that time period? Rather than a driver getting shot on a traffic stop being “common”, I think the odds of it happening are vanishingly small.
 
https://advisorsmith.com/data/most-dangerous-jobs/
You are three times more likely to be killed as a school crossing guard then as a police officer. Police officer barely makes the top 25 of hazardous occupations. And yet it’s all we hear about how much danger they are in on a daily basis. And that is used to justify the aggressive police tactics. Does it happen? sure but you’re much more likely to go home safe as a police officer than you are as a logger.

I would like to see a middle ground between defund the police and the status quo. Because the status quo is not working for the rest of the population.
 
Oh, California...well....

Don't tase me bro'
 
No, there are not police shootings of innocent people on a daily basis.

You have a greater chance of getting hit by lightening than being accidentally shot by police when at a stop.

Police got a what reasonably would have been considered a valid tip.

They did what they had to do. They had guns drawn and handcuffed John to contain what they reasonably thought was a bad situation.

They were wrong. Nothing bad happened.

Given the times cops get killed or wounded, IMHO let them do the job the way they need to

If me getting handcuffed for a small bit of time is some way of me contributing to cops being able to do their job the way they need to, then I'm OK with that.

OH - this was 10 years ago. Will this be brought up into perpetuity?

Given the rise in serious crime BTW, we have to get rid of this new "status quo" and go back to letting cops do their jobs.

IBTL !!!!! :)
 
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