Flying Into Mexican Airspace

birdus

birdus

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Jay Williams
I'm planning a trip during which I'll be flying along the US-Mexico border. However, while flying in western Arizona, there's a restricted area along the border—R-2301E and R-2301W. I'll ask for permission to zip through there (should take only about an hour and I'll be low and close to the border), but if I don't get permission, I was thinking maybe I could just pop across the border, flying right along the border in Mexican airspace.

Do I need permission from Mexican ATC to do this, since I wouldn't be landing? Any other considerations? I'll be flying form east to west, so I'd come back over the border around Yuma.
 
birdus said:
I'm planning a trip during which I'll be flying along the US-Mexico border. However, while flying in western Arizona, there's a restricted area along the border—R-2301E and R-2301W. I'll ask for permission to zip through there (should take only about an hour and I'll be low and close to the border), but if I don't get permission, I was thinking maybe I could just pop across the border, flying right along the border in Mexican airspace.

Do I need permission from Mexican ATC to do this, since I wouldn't be landing? Any other considerations? I'll be flying form east to west, so I'd come back over the border around Yuma.
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I dunno. But they do have an Airforce
upload_2020-8-8_18-10-34.jpeg
 
Those are part of the Goldwater Firing Range. Lots of airplanes firing live ammunition so you don’t want to stray in there when it is hot. It usually is on weekdays, but you can often get permission to transit on the weekend.

Yes, you need a TSA permission to renter the US and ATC clearance to go into Mexican airspace. I believe you can apply for it online.

If you will be flying near the border like this you may also want to review the rules for what happens if you are intercepted by a CBP or military aircraft. They have procedures they want you to follow.

Normally people just fly to Gila Bend and around those on the north side. You can get a transition from Marcus to Gila Bend if you wanted to go a bit further south out of Tucson to start with even when the range is hot. Requires permission from ATC and involves flying 500’ AGL over the road there.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Those are part of the Goldwater Firing Range. Lots of airplanes firing live ammunition so you don’t want to stray in there when it is hot. It usually is on weekdays, but you can often get permission to transit on the weekend.

Yes, you need a TSA permission to renter the US and ATC clearance to go into Mexican airspace. I believe you can apply for it online.

If you will be flying near the border like this you may also want to review the rules for what happens if you are intercepted by a CBP or military aircraft. They have procedures they want you to follow.

Normally people just fly to Gila Bend and around those on the north side. You can get a transition from Marcus to Gila Bend if you wanted to go a bit further south out of Tucson to start with even when the range is hot. Requires permission from ATC and involves flying 500’ AGL over the road there.
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Thanks, Peter! That's really helpful!
 
birdus said:
Since that picture is obviously Photoshopped, it motivated me actually to look up their air force. The extent of their fighters is 3 F-5s. No F-16s or Mig 29s.:):):fingerwag:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Air_Force#Current_aircraft

As I suspected, getting shot down wouldn't be a concern. More along the lines of legal issues when I landed back in the U.S.
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Hey, quit messin up my punchlines with the facts
EDIT: that’s weird. I was putting the emoji at the end of my reply and they ended up on yours
 
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In addition to the R areas, there are balloons (not Amazon's).
 
It's not as easy as Canada overflights. I tried to do it (overflying mexico from Brownsville to SW Texas) last year, and US atc said my request was denied by Mx atc (I was ifr, light single). I'm kind of glad that it was denied - it wasn't going to save me 15 minutes, and who knows about SENEAM now. They apparently don't send bills but if you don't self-report and pay, the next time that aircraft tries to go into Mexico there could be problems (ie angry airport commandante or temporary impounding) I think you would be a Small Type A (0.20p/km which is nothing).
Also to cross back into the US, you have to be talking to US atc of course (and on a discrete code) but here, we have to be at least 10K to talk to them along the border.
The latest I see on the AOPA page is that the border is closed til Aug28.. no indication if that applies to overflights.
 
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birdus said:
I think you may have missed that the whole point is to fly along the border.
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why? Something special about it?

I’m a frequent flier of V66 and 317. I mean, you see the wall and Mexicali and such. But it’s not a biggee.

I would worry about regular customs interceptions taking my time in wholesale amounts.

(typed from a sofa in Mexico, watching waves in the Pacific).
 
murphey said:
In addition to the R areas, there are balloons (not Amazon's).
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Two that I know of, both in Texas. One is near Marfa and is 25 miles from the border. The other one just south of Eagle Pass, just over 2.5 miles from the border. I won't be anywhere near it, but I'll still need to get permission to fly past it, as its restricted area just touches the border. So really, my primary concerns are that balloon and then the restricted area in AZ.
 
Might provide an opportunity for your first combat experience. If it were me, I would get some 100 mile and hour tape and tape a .30 cal carbine to each strut with a 30 round magazine and a pull string. 60 rounds ought to give you a fighting chance. Let us know how it works out
 
Fly up the freeway on v16 from TUS and check out the planes at MZJ, then hang a left and head to Gila. Make sure you check out Pima Air Museum while at TUS.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
 
CRQFlier said:
Fly up the freeway on v16 from TUS and check out the planes at MZJ, then hang a left and head to Gila. Make sure you check out Pima Air Museum while at TUS.
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Depending on how the trip is progressing, I might have time for that little detour. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
I was looking at the chart a bit more. It says R-2301W "excludes airspace below 3000 MSL." That's within the actual restricted area. However, in the legend, it says both of them (east and west) are "to FL 800." For a minute, I thought I was off the hook. What's with the inconsistency?
 
birdus said:
I was looking at the chart a bit more. It says R-2301W "excludes airspace below 3000 MSL." That's within the actual restricted area. However, in the legend, it says both of them (east and west) are "to FL 800." For a minute, I thought I was off the hook. What's with the inconsistency?
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are you looking at this chart notation?
That is just a sliver at the N end, (maybe for highway-followers?)

D5C3780D-7610-4D67-8C10-E42EAB2D7728.png
 
When I fly over Yuma I hear Yuma approach having a one-way conversation (military freqs) with F35s and Harriers dispatching them and their armaments to the gunnery ranges.

I keep my distance. Ymmv.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
That is just a sliver at the N end.
Plan to stay the f away from anything else.
I am no charting guru so I can’t answer your question.
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Oh. I see. It's just the part inside that solid blue line. Thanks.
 
There is a way through there without having to go inside the restricted areas and not going to Mexico. I just flew a no radio crop duster from el Centro to Iowa and went right through there... no one from atc notified me of a potential deviation so I’m must have been clear of all the R airspace.

I don’t have a map in front of me but I think you should look a little closer.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
There is a way through there without having to go inside the restricted areas and not going to Mexico. I just flew a no radio crop duster from el Centro to Iowa and went right through there... no one from atc notified me of a potential deviation so I’m must have been clear of all the R airspace.

I don’t have a map in front of me but I think you should look a little closer.
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Here's the area in question. Not sure what I could be missing...although I hope I'm missing something!

R-2301-b.JPG
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Isn’t there a corridor just out of the frame on the north side of that restricted area?
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As I stated in my original post (which people keep ignoring), my plan is to fly ALONG THE US/MEXICO BORDER. The area north of the restricted area is NOT RESTRICTED.
 
Have you considered looking up whoever controls those R-areas and just calling them on the phone? (Albuquerque Center, according to the chart).

They'd be able to tell you what altitudes are OK or not and where. Maybe even what dates they'll be inactive. Maybe coordinate a fly-through on a particular day/time. Who knows? There are humans there. Find one, and explain your Border Quest, and see what they say?
 
birdus said:
As I stated in my original post (which people keep ignoring), my plan is to fly ALONG THE US/MEXICO BORDER. The area north of the restricted area is NOT RESTRICTED.
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Oh. Without clearance through the restricted you can’t do the border. You can see it from north of the restricted area though... as long as it’s not too windy and all dusty.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Oh. Without clearance through the restricted you can’t do the border. You can see it from north of the restricted area though... as long as it’s not too windy and all dusty.
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Yeah, I'm hoping to fly right along the border. Just trying to work out some of these odd details.
 
kath said:
Have you considered looking up whoever controls those R-areas and just calling them on the phone? (Albuquerque Center, according to the chart).

They'd be able to tell you what altitudes are OK or not and where. Maybe even what dates they'll be inactive. Maybe coordinate a fly-through on a particular day/time. Who knows? There are humans there. Find one, and explain your Border Quest, and see what they say?
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Great minds think alike. Already done! :) E-mailed the Albuquerque FSDO (for E, according to Garmin Pilot) and LA FSDO (for W, according to Garmin Pilot). We'll see what they say. Just wrote them both the same thing. Figured I'd try the shotgun approach.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
This is one case where I would file a VFR flight plan.
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Actually, the FARs say you have to file a DVFR flight plan if you're flying in or through the ADIZ, besides having a 2-way radio and transponder.
 
birdus said:
Great minds think alike. Already done! :) E-mailed the Albuquerque FSDO (for E, according to Garmin Pilot) and LA FSDO (for W, according to Garmin Pilot). We'll see what they say. Just wrote them both the same thing. Figured I'd try the shotgun approach.
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FSDO’s don’t control airspace.
 
birdus said:
Are you telling me the FSDOs won't be able to give me any useful information?
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I suspect the FSDO will just tell you what you already know. That the controlling agency for each R area is the specified ARTCC. Your best chance is plan your flight on a Sunday or Federal holiday. But even that is not guaranteed. Airspace issues are not something the FSDO handles until you are in violation. :p I've crossed the Edwards AFB R space a few times. But mostly it's hot and a no go.

As for crossing into Mexico on the fly, it's not likely. But having an USAF F-16 waiting for you when you exit might be. :eek:
 
birdus said:
Actually, the FARs say you have to file a DVFR flight plan if you're flying in or through the ADIZ, besides having a 2-way radio and transponder.
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But if the OP stays along the border, doesn’t cross into Mexican airspace, then he doesn’t need the DVFR flight plan, right? Because the ADIZ starts when you leave US airspace.
aba5979bedfc1120a92f31db6292820c.jpg
 
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