Flying glider after medical denial for anxiety

G

Guest

Guest
Hello everyone,

A got my private pilot license long ago and my medical expired. Recently, I was denied a 3rd class medical for failing to provide further records regarding a previous diagnosis of anxiety/depression. Based on the information sent to the FAA by my AME, the FAA knows I have a diagnosis of anxiety and depression and had been on medications. I am currently not on any medications for the last year and have been doing fine. My question is, can I still get a glider add on rating and fly gliders PIC? I know I can still operate the aircraft in a safe manner.
 
Yes. Glider only requires valid drivers license. A failed medical is not relevant.
 
I don't think glider even requires a drivers license, you may be thinking of sport pilot.
 
You can even fly motor-gliders; I recommend the Stemme S12, which costs about as much as the average house, or about 2/3 of what a Skyhawk goes for.
 
OP here - Thanks for all the responses. I guess my concern would be that the FAA already has on file that I had anxiety issues. Once they see that I'm getting an add-on for glider, won't they see that and be like "wait a minute aren't you supposed to be grounded?." I'm afraid that will get me in trouble. And yes, the Stemme or pipistrel virus are the ones I've been looking at.
 
Guest said:
OP here - Thanks for all the responses. I guess my concern would be that the FAA already has on file that I had anxiety issues. Once they see that I'm getting an add-on for glider, won't they see that and be like "wait a minute aren't you supposed to be grounded?." I'm afraid that will get me in trouble. And yes, the Stemme or pipistrel virus are the ones I've been looking at.
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No, it is not like sport pilot. You will not even be asked about your medical.
 
Guest said:
OP here - Thanks for all the responses. I guess my concern would be that the FAA already has on file that I had anxiety issues. Once they see that I'm getting an add-on for glider, won't they see that and be like "wait a minute aren't you supposed to be grounded?." I'm afraid that will get me in trouble. And yes, the Stemme or pipistrel virus are the ones I've been looking at.
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Does your treating physician know that you plan to fly gliders? Does your physician object to you flying gliders? If not, your in good standing. To be certain, have your doc write a letter stating that there are no objections and keep it in your medical record. That way if there's ever any question, you complied with 61.53.
 
Brad Z said:
Does your treating physician know that you plan to fly gliders? Does your physician object to you flying gliders? If not, your in good standing. To be certain, have your doc write a letter stating that there are no objections and keep it in your medical record. That way if there's ever any question, you complied with 61.53.
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[sarcasm] And if your physician objects, find another one. I'm sure there's a doc somewhere that will give you an okay. [/sarcasm]
 
Most physicians have no clue what is required to fly an aircraft of any type, which is presumably why so many people seem to have trouble finding a doc to sign off on basicmed.
 
Dana said:
Most physicians have no clue what is required to fly an aircraft of any type, which is presumably why so many people seem to have trouble finding a doc to sign off on basicmed.
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Well, you could try the American Bonanza Society or BeechTalk.com. It shouldn't be too hard to find a flying doc among a bunch of Bonanza pilots.
 
So if I want to do my self-launching glider add-on (I have a PPL-SEL), do I get a logbook endorsement or do I get a new license after the check-ride?
 
Guest said:
So if I want to do my self-launching glider add-on (I have a PPL-SEL), do I get a logbook endorsement or do I get a new license after the check-ride?
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New certificate with a glider rating. The launch type no longer shows up on your certificate.
 
Brad Z said:
Does your treating physician know that you plan to fly gliders? Does your physician object to you flying gliders? If not, your in good standing. To be certain, have your doc write a letter stating that there are no objections and keep it in your medical record. That way if there's ever any question, you complied with 61.53.
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This is CRUCIAL. Under 61.53, you recieved a letter, certified that you were found not qualified to operate. So you need some local testimony to the contrary. Very astute post, by Brad.
 
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Took a few hours of glider instruction see if I like it. I got on the subject of medicals with the CFI he told me he was denied because he has ADHD was currently taking medication didn't seem to be a problem for him.

Seems like asking your doctor would just make it worse they likely say no because they don't want any liability.


(b) Operations that do not require a medical certificate. For operations provided for in § 61.23(b) of this part, a person shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.


Isn't that the same as self certifying that your safe to operate the aircraft why would you need to ask a doctor to sign off on that?
 
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bbchien said:
This is CRUCIAL. Under 61.53, you recieved a letter, certified tha tyou were found not qualified to operate. So you need some local testimony to the contrary. Very astute post, by Brad.
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A letter that says he's incapable of safely operating an aircraft or a letter that says he's ineligible for a medical certificate?
 
bbchien said:
This is CRUCIAL. Under 61.53, you recieved a letter, certified that you were found not qualified to operate. So you need some local testimony to the contrary. Very astute post, by Brad.
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The FAA doesn’t care much about local testimony contrary to their decisions.
 
OP here - I'm going forward with my (motor)glider add-on and checkride is scheduled. So I went to my PCP for a check up and everything is good, he said he has no issues with me flying. When I look at his medical notes in my chart, he did not write anything down about our conversation about flying - but that was the point of the whole visit *facepalm.* Maybe I can reach out and ask to see if that's something that could be on the medical record. Thanks everyone for the helpful answers.
 
kell490 said:
Isn't that the same as self certifying that your safe to operate the aircraft why would you need to ask a doctor to sign off on that?
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"Self-certification" went out the window decades ago. It used to be the case that you had to attest that you were healthy to fly when exercising glider privileges in lieu of having a medical. Now no certification (self or AME) is required. 61.53 just says regardless of what the certification requirements are (be it a medical certificate, no medical required, or a drivers license) that you should not fly during medical deficiencies.
 
Following this with great interest, since a friend lost his license, due to blood pressure.
A self powered glider might be a good fit.
 
I'm not sure why the market for pipistrel like motor gliders isn't stronger. It's definitely on my list of "what I'll do if I lose my ability to have a medical".
 
flyingron said:
"Self-certification" went out the window decades ago. It used to be the case that you had to attest that you were healthy to fly when exercising glider privileges in lieu of having a medical. Now no certification (self or AME) is required. 61.53 just says regardless of what the certification requirements are (be it a medical certificate, no medical required, or a drivers license) that you should not fly during medical deficiencies.
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Who decides if you have a "medical deficiency" what criteria has to be met to know when a person is in "medical deficiency". Are you required to have a doctor decide that? If it's left up to the pilot to decide then isn't that a "self-certification"?
 
It's not a certification. It's just a determination you are safe to fly today just like you do even if you have a medical certificate.
As I said, the requirement to make a certification went away decades ago. It's the wrong term for what pilots do today.
 
kell490 said:
Who decides if you have a "medical deficiency" what criteria has to be met to know when a person is in "medical deficiency".
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"That person"
And the criteria depends on if you are operating under a medical or not. If you have a medical you only have to believe that you can meet the requirements for the medical certificate. If you are not required to have a medical certificate you have to believe that you can operate in a safe manner.
I will leave it to you to decide which is "higher" requirement.

§ 61.53 Prohibition on operations during medical deficiency.
(a) Operations that require a medical certificate. Except as provided for in paragraph (b) of this section, no person who holds a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter may act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person:

(1) Knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation; or

(2) Is taking medication or receiving other treatment for a medical condition that results in the person being unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation.

(b) Operations that do not require a medical certificate. For operations provided for in § 61.23(b) of this part, a person shall not act as pilot in command, or in any other capacity as a required pilot flight crewmember, while that person knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner.

(c) Operations requiring a medical certificate or a U.S. driver's license. For operations provided for in § 61.23(c), a person must meet the provisions of -

(1) Paragraph (a) of this section if that person holds a medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter and does not hold a U.S. driver's license.

(2) Paragraph (b) of this section if that person holds a U.S. driver's license.
 
kell490 said:
Who decides if you have a "medical deficiency" what criteria has to be met to know when a person is in "medical deficiency". Are you required to have a doctor decide that? If it's left up to the pilot to decide then isn't that a "self-certification"?
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Whoever is citing you with a violation of 61.53(b). I suspect it’s not a very common violation, and would most likely result from an accident that had an obvious medical component that resulted from a very obvious and documented medical history.
 
Brad Z said:
Whoever is citing you with a violation of 61.53(b). I suspect it’s not a very common violation, and would most likely result from an accident that had an obvious medical component that resulted from a very obvious and documented medical history.
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Is there a requirement for the pilot to go seek a medical opinion if they should fly or not if not then is the pilot capable of knowing what is obvious. Take the OP example someone is depressed they got a script for Prozac would that DQ them from flying? I never seen a doctor tell anyone who was on Prozac not to operate a vehicle. If you go ask doctor about flying they probably always going to say no to protect them from liability.
 
kell490 said:
Is there a requirement for the pilot to go seek a medical opinion if they should fly or not if not then is the pilot capable of knowing what is obvious. Take the OP example someone is depressed they got a script for Prozac would that DQ them from flying? I never seen a doctor tell anyone who was on Prozac not to operate a vehicle. If you go ask doctor about flying they probably always going to say no to protect them from liability.
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The regulation is the regulation. There are no additional specific requirements or guidance for that matter. Each enforcement decision is based on the facts of the case. It stands to reason that a doctor telling a patient that they shouldn’t fly with a medical condition is good evidence of a 61.56(b) violation, while a doc telling a patient that they are okay flying with that a medical condition would be good evidence that the pilot is not in violation of 61.56(b).

I personally think an airman would not be complying with the requirement of 61.56(b) if he or she was treated for a significant medical condition like depression and did not discuss with the doctor the potential risks of operating an aircraft under the plan of treatment. The doctor might not say yea or nay, but they should be able to help you understand the risks of operating an aircraft with the condition or the medication used to treat it. Whether the effects are obvious or not is debatable.
 
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