Flying GA into NYC

polaris

polaris

Pre-takeoff checklist
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polaris
Thinking of making a day trip to NYC for a Broadway show from Boston on a Sunday. I really want to fly the Hudson corridor. I've done it once before, but I flew right back to Boston without stopping -- so I didn't have to worry about landing anywhere.

Is Teterboro just a bad, bad idea? I'm in a C172. Landing fee from Port Authority is $17. I called various FBOs, and they will waive my ramp fee with fuel purchase (I'll go with tabs fuel so I'll get it waived).

How do I get into the city?
Cab into the city sounds like a nightmare because of all the reasons why you shouldn't take a cab from NJ to NY (and vice versa). But it is the quickest: 20 minutes with no traffic. God knows how long with traffic. I was told expect $80-100 one way.

Public transit: Looks like Bus 161 -> M42 will get me into W 42 St/6th Avenue in 45 minutes. Has anyone done this, and is it a bad idea? I heard that it is hard to navigate if you are not familiar.

I can't think of any other ideas other than TEB. HPN is too far.

Thoughts on making this work? Or just forget it?
 
Getting into NYC is just not fun no matter how you do it. I've heard horror stories about TEB, but have never actually landed there. I've had no issues with HPN, LDJ, or FRG. Typically the best way into the city from HPN or FRG is to take the train in. I'm not sure how you get in from LDJ.

You could also take a car service. More expensive, but way easier.
 
I've lived the TEB experience and would advice against it, particlularily if it's IFR. Take the train from HPN, it's the most reliable way to get in the city. TEB looks closer but it's more expensive and not much closer.
 
Brad Z said:
I've lived the TEB experience and would advice against it, particlularily if it's IFR. Take the train from HPN, it's the most reliable way to get in the city. TEB looks closer but it's more expensive and not much closer.
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Why particularly if IFR? Do they just refuse to release you?
 
HPN isn't bad. Land go to signature and walk accross to the train station. It will take you right into grand central station.

If you do TEB you almost have to take a cab.
 
FRG FBO will drop you off at the LIRR. You're on your own from there, but it was a pretty nice way to get in closer where you can get anywhere on the subway.
 
The bus to NYC stops right outside the fence at KTEB (at both north corners of the airport), for what that's worth.
But it goes to the George Washington Bridge terminal, which means a longish subway ride downtown to the theater.
The closest (to NYC) viable airport for a 172 is KLDJ, but the nearest train requires a cab ride (about 2 miles away). That train, however, will drop you within walking distance of Times Square (at 8th Ave and 33rd St.).
Never taken the train from KHPN,so I can't advise on that.
 
polaris said:
Why particularly if IFR? Do they just refuse to release you?
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Well, they are smack dab next door to Newark, so NY Tracon is having to work EWR and TEB departures in the same airspace. It just makes for bigger delays departing. If you've ever been #12 for departure you'll know what I mean. It's mostly bizjets so your 172 won't mix into the flow very well. They won't refuse to release you, but you will wait your turn.

Alternatively, HPN and FRG have a decent mix of turbine and piston traffic, so they're used to it and you'll blend in better.
 
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polaris said:
Why particularly if IFR? Do they just refuse to release you?
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No, but it could take a while. In fact, with the heavy bizjet traffic, even in VMC you could be delayed considerably getting out, while they all get their clearances. Used to happen to me all the time in the late 90s, and there are a lot more jets there now.

It's been years since I last saw a piston single parked at, or flying in or out of KTEB... this is one reason why.
 
J3 Driver said:
HPN isn't bad. Land go to signature and walk accross to the train station. It will take you right into grand central station.

If you do TEB you almost have to take a cab.
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The train from White Plains runs frequently and is 40-55 minutes to Grand Central Station, and an easy walk from there.

I use Panorama at HPN. I like them better, they're more affordable, and they'll drive you to the station.
 
Brad Z said:
I use Panorama at HPN. I like them better, they're more affordable, and they'll drive you to the station.
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NB: Panorama has been sold to Landmark. There are now two Landmark facilities at HPN. The former Panorama facility is now called Landmark West.

Best to call for prices....

-Skip
 
polaris said:
Is Teterboro just a bad, bad idea?
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TEB is pretty busy, with some very critical departure procedures requiring serious pre-flight study. If you're not on your A-game, it's not the place to be, but if you're smart, proficient, and well-prepared, it's not a big deal.
 
Skip Miller said:
NB: Panorama has been sold to Landmark. There are now two Landmark facilities at HPN. The former Panorama facility is now called Landmark West.

Best to call for prices....

-Skip
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When did that happen? I feel like I was just there a month ago. No more cheesecake I presume?
 
rottydaddy said:
No, but it could take a while. In fact, with the heavy bizjet traffic, even in VMC you could be delayed considerably getting out, while they all get their clearances.
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It's strictly first-come/first-served. If they release someone ahead of you, it's because they were ready first.
 
I have daughters in NYC and have made the trip many many times. The old MacDan at Caldwell has now been replaced by an outfit that neither has a courtesy car nor will help you get to Willowbrook mall (1.8 miles) where the #192 takes you directly to the port authority. Scratch those guys.

TEB: there is a bus about six blocks from the north end of FBO row. But I would only go if the operation is VFR. Why? you're competing with airline releases at EWR, and I have waited up to 2 hours for release. NY center won't pick up IFR in the air at all- so you have to make Wilkes Barre before you can get up from under the overcast. IFR, fly the Dalton departure. They don't tell you about the departure- you are expected to know about it.
It's also at 1:45 in the video: I give you Mike Wagner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzM3aaypEYo

Republic- just rent a car. It's too much hassle getting to the LIRR station, they won't help you get there.

White Plains- Panorama (now Landmark West) provided good service over the summer, crew car, or a lift to the transit station. This is where I'm going in a few days for the family turkey......
 
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If I go that way, I fly into TEB and park at Meridian.

The Pascack valley line of NJ transit has a stop (Wood-Ridge) at the airport perimeter, either you walk 1/2 mile from Meridian or have someone drop you off. Train runs every 30 min to every hour depending on time of day. The next stop is Secaucus junction where you can change to the trains into Penn Station, or you go one more stop to Hoboken where you can connect to the PATH (port authority subway trains to World Trade Center or locations between 9th and 33rd).

If you are not afraid of looking up a train schedule and navigating public transit, that is both the cheapest and most predictable way to travel in that area. Of course you can take a town-car as well, it can take between 25min and 3hrs to get downtown from TEB.

I have not had the misfortune of a TEB IFR departure. With a small plane and VFR, they let you out with an intersection departure without much of a wait. Remember to call up ground before starting the engine.
 
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You can always go to LDJ. If you are going through Hudson corridor, you will exit at Verrazano, and you will be 5 minutes away from LDJ. Be prepared to pay landing ($15 for typical Cessna), and parking (if more than 2.5 hours). There's no car, but 5 minute cab ride will drop you off at NJ Transit train line that will take you directly to Penn Station. Keep in mind, you need NYC Penn Station. One in Newark is called Penn Station too...
 
Meanee said:
You can always go to LDJ. If you are going through Hudson corridor, you will exit at Verrazano, and you will be 5 minutes away from LDJ. Be prepared to pay landing ($15 for typical Cessna), and parking (if more than 2.5 hours). There's no car, but 5 minute cab ride will drop you off at NJ Transit train line that will take you directly to Penn Station. Keep in mind, you need NYC Penn Station. One in Newark is called Penn Station too...
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Is a cab easy to come by?
 
Oh. I forgot. I used to go to LDJ. "Linden Air Service"(which it is not). He will not help you get anywhere. You HAVE to rent a car.....he doesn't get a DIME of my operating budget. If you go to LDJ enough, you can have a contracted limo service take you to Manhattan for about $80 a pop. But you have to be doing this enough to have a relationship with them.
 
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White plains and take the train. You can do the corridor on the way in or out.
 
I'd second (third?) Meridian at TEB, assuming you are comfortable with a busy airport and weather is VFR. Last few times I've been to TEB, Meridian had the best or second best fuel price on the field and waive the ramp fee with a top-off (this is useful as I typically burn under 15 gallons to get up to TEB, and several of the FBOs wanted a minimum uplift of 20--because fuel is so much cheaper at my home airport, leaving the tanks low to waive the ramp fee doesn't really work out dollars-wise when there is another option!).

They will give you a ride to the bus stop, and the 161 ride goes directly to the Port Authority Bus Terminal downtown, which is very close to Times Square and Broadway and offers easy transit access elsewhere. If you don't mind a bus trip, it is likely the best option. Otherwise a cab or limo will give you a slightly faster and more private ride at a much greater cost.

We have looked at the train near TEB, but the schedule has never worked out as well for us as the bus since we normally aren't coming in or out at rush hour.

In short, if the weather is good and you are proficient at a busy airport, no reason not to go into TEB... while Jet A rules, we normally see one or two fellow piston singles out on the ramp at Meridian.

Also... for HPN... what train station are you walking too? As far as I know Metro North is 5+ miles from the airport and you need to either get a ride from the FBO or take a shuttle bus. Just curious, as I'd be willing to try HPN again sometime.
 
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Fly into KISP. From KISP there's a shuttle that takes you to the LIRR for $5 and the LIRR takes about 1:15 to get from the Ronkonkoma station to Penn Station. This is as easy as it gets.
 
TUPilot said:
Also... for HPN... what train station are you walking too? As far as I know Metro North is 5+ miles from the airport and you need to either get a ride from the FBO or take a shuttle bus. Just curious, as I'd be willing to try HPN again sometime.
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Your knowledge is correct. Walking from HPN to the North White Plains train station (the closest MTA train station) is indeed 5+ miles, and you certainly have to know where you are going. You will also be walking on fairly busy streets without sidewalks until you get into NWP. This one is not a walk in my opinion.
 
Thanks guys. Since I want to do the Hudson corridor, I will not be launching unless it's VMC.

I am now considering TEB (Meridian) and getting shuttled to the bus/train. Or HPN (Landmark) and getting shuttled to the train.

Since I have landed at HPN before, I may go TEB. If you guys think that there is a risk of a long delay even if I am VFR, then I will probably veto TEB. But from what I read, it seems that it only pertains to IFR traffic competing with EWR for slots.

I will be getting in on a Sunday around 10:00 a.m. and leaving around 6:00 p.m. And not any ordinary Sunday... but Sunday, December 29. I wonder how that date affects traffic. I wonder if it would be slower because there isn't as much business travel, or if it would be busier because everyone and their mom wants to come to NYC for the New Year celebration?
 
Yes I did. TEB has a landing fee and a handling fee, as I recall it. So do most of the others. Essex doesn't. However, since it's closer, you might save that cost on taxi/ground transportation if it's just for a day, so it's swings and roundabouts.
 
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polaris said:
Since I have landed at HPN before, I may go TEB. If you guys think that there is a risk of a long delay even if I am VFR, then I will probably veto TEB. But from what I read, it seems that it only pertains to IFR traffic competing with EWR for slots.
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When you call up for taxi, tell them that you want the 'skyline route' and that you can take intersection departure. While all the jets are lined up 10 deep waiting for their IFR release, you taxi out in between, take off and are given a landmark like the GW bridge to join the skyline route. They may hand you off to EWR tower for a minute until you get clearance to climb into the class B.

The 'skyline route' allows you to fly past Manhattan in the class B with everyone else under positive control. Unlike the exclusion, you as the pilot can actually divert your attention for a couple of seconds at a time and enjoy the view.
 
weilke said:
When you call up for taxi, tell them that you want the 'skyline route' and that you can take intersection departure. While all the jets are lined up 10 deep waiting for their IFR release, you taxi out in between, take off and are given a landmark like the GW bridge to join the skyline route. They may hand you off to EWR tower for a minute until you get clearance to climb into the class B.

The 'skyline route' allows you to fly past Manhattan in the class B with everyone else under positive control. Unlike the exclusion, you as the pilot can actually divert your attention for a couple of seconds at a time and enjoy the view.
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If I choose to join the Skyline Route on my way TO NYC (from Boston), do I specify this to the NY Approach controller?

I will probably be asking more about this in detail as the date approaches. It is unlikely that I will be doing a night Hudson on my way back. Unless you recommend it -- then I might do both day and night!
 
polaris said:
If I choose to join the Skyline Route on my way TO NYC (from Boston), do I specify this to the NY Approach controller?
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I did it leaving TEB, I believe you can request it on the way in as well.

I will probably be asking more about this in detail as the date approaches. It is unlikely that I will be doing a night Hudson on my way back. Unless you recommend it -- then I might do both day and night!
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Well, unless they turn you to go over JFK, you would leave the class B with a lot of water underneath. In a 172 in the winter, that would exceed my risk tolerance.
 
weilke said:
I did it leaving TEB, I believe you can request it on the way in as well.



Well, unless they turn you to go over JFK, you would leave the class B with a lot of water underneath. In a 172 in the winter, that would exceed my risk tolerance.
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When you are in the Bravo, will they let you do a 180 turn at the Verrazano?

Also, I feel that the Metro-North Harlem line (Landing at HPN) is probably a lot more reliable than the NJ Transit bus that runs every half hour (Landing at TEB ). Am I right? If so, I may just go to HPN. The chances of an on-time departure is probably significantly higher on a train than a bus?
 
polaris said:
When you are in the Bravo, will they let you do a 180 turn at the Verrazano?
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Dont know, worth asking.

Also, I feel that the Metro-North Harlem line (Landing at HPN) is probably a lot more reliable than the NJ Transit bus that runs every half hour (Landing at TEB ). Am I right? If so, I may just go to HPN. The chances of an on-time departure is probably significantly higher on a train than a bus?
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I wouldn't take anything that involves road based vehicles during morning or evening rush-hour. Morning rush-hour is from 6 am to noon. Afternoon rush-hour is from noon to 9pm :wink2: .
 
I'll just say that KISP is probably the easiest possible option. Although it is far away from the city, about 1 hour 15 minutes by train, it is the least hassle way. I fly out of KISP and it is about a 10 minute taxi ride to the train station for the LIRR( local railroad). The train is by far the best way into the city as busses around here are not a really nice way to do anything and with the holiday traffic, takig a bus even 10 miles can take an hour.

Also, you will not have long airport delays fairly common at other local airports. Islip is an easy, stress free way into the city and probably not all that more time consuming than some of the closer airports.
 
polaris said:
If I choose to join the Skyline Route on my way TO NYC (from Boston), do I specify this to the NY Approach controller?

I will probably be asking more about this in detail as the date approaches. It is unlikely that I will be doing a night Hudson on my way back. Unless you recommend it -- then I might do both day and night!
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Be sure to get the online training and the chart before doing the Hudson tour. Both day and night are amazing!
 
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