Flying from South Carolina to Washington State in a Week

Daven

Daven

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Awesometastic1
So ultra-low time pilot here (45 hours). I just bought a Piper Arrow III Turbo currently residing in South Carolina and am flying it with a CFI back to Washington state next week and just planning the trip at the moment, and wondering the best route over the mountains or any other advice here?

For expedience' sake I'd love to take a northern route, but those peaks are awfully high around Montana-ish and I don't have an oxygen system yet and I imagine winds won't be awesome this time of year. :)

So what would be the best route here or other advice for this trip?
 
Search threads for an inexpensive medical o2 system to get you started. Not only will having o2 greatly improve your options for this endeavor but it will greatly open up the capabilities of your aircraft. I have a home rig medical o2 setup for two that i use in my bonanza. All in cost me around $150.
 
This might be a good discussion to have with the CFI you’re traveling with...

Personally, I’d have a look at the traditional routes to cross and plan something for all of them. You likely won’t be able to make a firm choice until you’re ready to depart on the trip anyway. This time of year weather is probably going to dictate which way you go.

There’s also the unfamiliar airplane aspect. I have zero faith that any new to me airplane is going to get me home. I would be picking the easiest/safest way to cross.
 
Daven said:
So ultra-low time pilot here (45 hours). I just bought a Piper Arrow III Turbo currently residing in South Carolina and am flying it with a CFI back to Washington state next week and just planning the trip at the moment, and wondering the best route over the mountains or any other advice here?

For expedience' sake I'd love to take a northern route, but those peaks are awfully high around Montana-ish and I don't have an oxygen system yet and I imagine winds won't be awesome this time of year. :)

So what would be the best route here or other advice for this trip?
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Then don't go thru Montana.

First question - CFI in SC or the CFI is in Washington? Knowledge of the area is important. If the CFI isn't familiar with anything west of the Mississippi, then stop off in one of the higher elevation states for a lesson in mountain flying.

Low route would be west then up the California coast. North following I-80 you don't need to go over 10K. Another option is Billings (KBIL) and west.

With a Turbo, you want to be higher, so get O2 (not the tiny cans at the drugs store) and work with the CFI for planning.
 
My 50-cents

You don’t need to go all the way south, and by that I mean El Paso Texas. You can stay a little bit further north such as Albuquerque, and be in pretty good shape. The ground does try to come up to meet you pretty well, so it will surprise you how low to the ground you are at 12,000 feet, that said it beats going all the way south.

after Albuquerque plan to head towards Las Vegas and then fly on the West side of the restricted airspace up to Northern California and then up to the Pacific Northwest
 
Rgbeard said:
My 50-cents

You don’t need to go all the way south, and by that I mean El Paso Texas. You can stay a little bit further north such as Albuquerque, and be in pretty good shape. The ground does try to come up to meet you pretty well, so it will surprise you how low to the ground you are at 12,000 feet, that said it beats going all the way south.

after Albuquerque plan to head towards Las Vegas and then fly on the West side of the restricted airspace up to Northern California and then up to the Pacific Northwest
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That's pretty much what I'd do. Once you cross the Sierras either near Reno/Lake Tahoe or just south of Yosemite and are in the California central valley, follow the I-5 corridor north to the PNW.
 
[QUOTE="Daven, post: 2999650, member: 44157"

For expedience' sake I'd love to take a northern route, but those peaks are awfully high around Montana-ish and I don't have an oxygen system yet and I imagine winds won't be awesome this time of year. :)[/QUOTE]
the mountains do get high, so, stay in the valleys :)

stay on I-90 you will be OK..

Weather - weather - weather
 
What part of Washington are you headed to?
 
"What part of Washington are you headed to?" Bellingham.
 
BIL V247 HLN V2 GEG, then destination. All below 12K.

Congrats on the airplane btw. Though not a fan of the turbo conti, the arrow airframe is otherwise cheap to keep. The semi-tapered wing flies very nicely; it likes altitude compared to the hurricane window planks I got for wings on my Arrow II. :D
 
Since you have a turbo plane:
1. buy an O2 system before your flight. If that is not possible,
2. you can fly at 12,500, and even up to 14K up to 30 min. That is plenty of altitude to make it to WA.
 
"Though not a fan of the turbo conti" On the plus side, this one has the Merlyn automatic wastegate mod to help the engine suck less :). And the plane itself has only had two owners its whole life, never used as a trainer, always hangared, and when the engine was overhauled a while back, it was blueprinted as well. So here's hoping it lasts. :) Mechanic who did the pre-buy said it was the nicest Arrow he's ever personally looked at, for whatever that's worth. :) Re-painted and new interior relatively recently as well, which is always nice for the eyes and nose. :)
 
Probably a nuanced "it depends" type of question, and possibly also a quite stupid one, but if one did have a portable oxygen system, how high above a ridge line (in general) is sufficient to avoid too much issue from the winds on the mountains? From the various little tutorials on mountain flying I've been reading/watching it would seem anything above 25 knots winds aloft is always no go for mountain flying on such a plane, but nobody seems to bother mentioning how far above the mountains in a given area one could fly to have that be a non-factor even still.
 
Daven said:
Probably a nuanced "it depends" type of question, and possibly also a quite stupid one, but if one did have a portable oxygen system, how high above a ridge line (in general) is sufficient to avoid too much issue from the winds on the mountains? From the various little tutorials on mountain flying I've been reading/watching it would seem anything above 25 knots winds aloft is always no go for mountain flying on such a plane, but nobody seems to bother mentioning how far above the mountains in a given area one could fly to have that be a non-factor even still.
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There may be no practical height above the rocks where 25 knots is a "non-factor" in the mountains. 25 knots from the west over the Cascades usually means a lot of mechanical turbulence. Higher invariably means the winds are stronger.

Pick your day to cross the mountains (today was perfect over the Northern Cascades). Don't assume you can just go higher to smooth it up when it's rough out there.

Sounds like a great airplane! Congrats! Pictures when you get some please.
 
And remember the North Cascades are known as the ice machine. It is getting that time again.
 
Turbo Arrow in VFR conditions should be pretty much a non issue. Weather is forecast to start deteriorate next week in the Northwest, so that may be an issue. But as long as you can fly in good VFR between 10,000 and 12000 feet and follow freeways or least major highways through the mountains you shouldn’t have any issue.
Minimum try to cross ridges at least 1000 AGL. Cross at 45 degree angle so you can turn away if you do encounter a significant downdraft.

Be prepared to sit out or have alternate plan if the weather doesn’t cooperate.

Oxygen will be nice at times, Especially if you need to get above weather. but going west bound you may prefer the lower altitudes for less headwind.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
Boise, Idaho
 
Daven said:
"Though not a fan of the turbo conti" On the plus side, this one has the Merlyn automatic wastegate mod to help the engine suck less :). And the plane itself has only had two owners its whole life, never used as a trainer, always hangared, and when the engine was overhauled a while back, it was blueprinted as well. So here's hoping it lasts. :) Mechanic who did the pre-buy said it was the nicest Arrow he's ever personally looked at, for whatever that's worth. :) Re-painted and new interior relatively recently as well, which is always nice for the eyes and nose. :)
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the IO-360 is allowed to pull 42" HQ,,, don't do it.
 
Daven said:
Probably a nuanced "it depends" type of question, and possibly also a quite stupid one, but if one did have a portable oxygen system, how high above a ridge line (in general) is sufficient to avoid too much issue from the winds on the mountains? From the various little tutorials on mountain flying I've been reading/watching it would seem anything above 25 knots winds aloft is always no go for mountain flying on such a plane, but nobody seems to bother mentioning how far above the mountains in a given area one could fly to have that be a non-factor even still.
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westbound, I always allow an extra 3000' Snoqualmie pass can kick your butt.
and remember follow the high-lines, not the highway.
 
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MountainDude said:
Since you have a turbo plane:
1. buy an O2 system before your flight. If that is not possible,
2. you can fly at 12,500, and even up to 14K up to 30 min. That is plenty of altitude to make it to WA.
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While legal, may not be a good idea,I would get O2 meter and used oxygen when your body needs it.
 
1000 AGL will not seem like very much to you as you approach a ridge. Yes, technically you will clear it, but you’ll probably wish you could jump up another 2000 on some of those. And if there’s any wind, then you’ll be feeling it - know your maneuvering speed, and calculate the actual speed for less than gross loading. It’s going to be bumpy in some areas.

Watch for cold front activity. Out here in the west with the moisture laden pacific on shore flows, IFR weather can develop quickly. Be prepared to land or change your route - just plan for that, and accept that you will need to do that somewhere.

Snoqualmie is a good route over the cascades, and you can reasonably track I-90, at least until the pass exit near North Bend/Fall City; where you’ll probably begin to veer towards north. As you come onto the west side of the pass ATC will want to get you down to 6000 MSL or so to keep you away from traffic to SeaTac.

You will no doubt have a great trip and remember it forever. Take lots of pics. Once you get situated at Bellingham, take a flight to Friday Harbor. The San Juan’s are great to fly to/visit.
 
You have a plane that will clear the mountains any routing you could possibly take, even if you decided to fly right over the middle of Colorado (which would be stupid, it should be said). So it’s just going to boil down to weather. If the weather is bad up north, choose a southerly route. If it’s bad down south, go north.

There are three or four common routes and they’re all pretty obvious if you look at a map - El Pasoish, Albuerquerque-ish, Wyoming-ish, and Billings-ish. Just watch the wind, stay away from precip and out of the clouds (tougher said than done this time of the year so be flexible and patient as necessary) and you’ll have a great adventure.

You’ll be happier if you get an O2 system and use it. I like to start using mine if I’m going to be above 10,000 for a prolonged period, but I live at a little altitude - everyone is different. I wouldn’t expect to drone along comfortably or safely at 12,500 if you live at sea level, even if it is legal.
 
Get a pulse oximeter, about $30 at major drug stores. Use it in flight to determine when to start sucking O2. Don’t let your oxygen saturation get below 90%. I keep mine over 94%. Everybody has a different % limit. Learn yours! -Skip
 
For the southern route, checkout my outbound route from Snohomish (Harvey S32)) to Knoxville and reverse it:
http://www.demonick.com/flying/S43-DKX-SUA-S43/index.html

As many others have said, DO NOT push the weather. Remember YOU are PIC, not the CFI. It is YOUR plane, not the CFI's. He is working for you, not the other way around. When that little voice whispers to YOU, listen to it. I've been stuck by weather many times. It once took me 11 days to get back from New Orleans. I've cooled my heels for 4 days in Medford, OR (Got to know Shari's menu pretty well) Been stuck in Klamath Falls, Ellensburg, Grant Nebraska, .... There is no shame, and you will get home eventually.
 
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I just did this last month. Oregon to Florida. I opted for OR -> CA -> AZ -> eastward. The main reason for this was the ugly terrain, weather and icing in the northern route. It only adds about 5 hours opting for the California route than the Montana route.
 
Well purchased an inogen G5 aviator concentrator, which seems well reviewed and they say works for two people reasonably well up to around 15,000 ft-ish. Needed something I could take on the commercial plane from Washington to South Carolina and the always available tankless setup is kind of nice anyway, if ridiculously pricey. :) So I'll have a bit more wiggle room. :)
 
Sounds like there are a lot of moving pieces here...
 
Go south, San Antonio, hill country, southern NM and Southern AZ, San Diego, then up along the coast to WA. Might take an extra day, but so what? Less stress, safer, and definitely more beautiful cruising up the coast. I dont go over the local mountains if wind is more than 20 kts because is not much fun and yes, down drafts can be quite strong and insidious. Unless its dead calm, plan at least 2k agl.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
 
CRQFlier said:
Go south, San Antonio, hill country, southern NM and Southern AZ, San Diego, then up along the coast to WA. Might take an extra day, but so what? Less stress, safer, and definitely more beautiful cruising up the coast. I dont go over the local mountains if wind is more than 20 kts because is not much fun and yes, down drafts can be quite strong and insidious. Unless its dead calm, plan at least 2k agl.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
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The lowest crossing is still the I-90 route.
 
Montana isn't high. You can cross westbound at 8500. Been there, done that.
 
Glad to hear you have a good plan for bringing your Arrow home. Route-wise, north (roughly Billings, I-90, Seattle) or through Cheyenne-Salt Lake-Boise are completely reasonable. That said, personally I'd consider even your turbo-Arrow essentially VFR-only anywhere west of a Billings-Denver line. Really bad widespread weather would be the reason to go way south, but otherwise, a long way out of the way, IMHO. Next week looks like a big frontal system moving across the country, but the mountain-northwest is forecast to be good after the front moves east. So, maybe, wait till the system moves completely east, or, depart SC, maybe stop just short of the big front, spend the night while it passes, then continue west. Lots of acceptable, safe scenarios.

455 Bravo Uniform said:
@Daven - pics and updates as time permits...please!
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At any rate, yes, absolutely, post updates...it sounds like a great trip!
 
For those requesting, here's a couple pics of the plane itself. :)
 

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What’s not to like? Congrats!

Looks like a nice blank spot for a large engine monitor display...or A/P head. $$
 
I thought I recognized the hangars in the pics. There is a great avionics shop as well as a top notch A&P on the field. If I had time I would fly over and welcome you to South Carolina [I'm nearby] but work has me tied up. Good luck on your trip and welcome to the Palmetto State.
 
Tom-D said:
The lowest crossing is still the I-90 route.
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I suppose if that's the only criteria. South likrly better weather in November. Less time over rough terrain. Coastal scenery. I personally wouldn't go north.

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CRQFlier said:
I suppose if that's the only criteria. South likrly better weather in November. Less time over rough terrain. Coastal scenery. I personally wouldn't go north.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk
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colder air is usually dry air.
the coast is not a friendly weather place.
Medford ?
The mostly place to encounter ICE is crossing the front rage.
 
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Haven't you taken this trip yet? :)
Take the route that looks best for winds and weather, and be ready to adjust as necessary, it's usually pretty obvious. The most important thing is determining the food stops along the way, I recommend Stephenville Clark Regional (KSEP,) in Texas. Hard Eight BBQ will pick you up at the airport, at least they did in the before-times.
Have fun, be safe.
 
Daven said:
Well purchased an inogen G5 aviator concentrator, which seems well reviewed and they say works for two people reasonably well up to around 15,000 ft-ish. Needed something I could take on the commercial plane from Washington to South Carolina and the always available tankless setup is kind of nice anyway, if ridiculously pricey. :) So I'll have a bit more wiggle room. :)
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I would defiantly like a Pirep on the Inogen G5. I've been interested for a while, just haven't pulled the trigger yet.
 
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